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Post by Guidas on Jul 8, 2023 10:53:15 GMT -5
Yeah they can do that, I’d personally prefer attaching the prospect to Hernandez so there’s extra money to spend at the deadline. Dealing Duvall for an asset and holding Hernandez as backup CF is an interesting option too I might catch some flack, but I’m opposed to trading Kiké. He’s an elite CF, solid 2B, and absolutely mashes if/when he’s in the postseason — just keep him the hell away from SS. I’d be more comfortable DFA’ing/trading Arroyo who’s been consistently injured and inconsistent with his play. Trading Duvall would be next on the docket to open up space for Story when he gets back and to be able to hold onto Chang, Reyes and Kiké as well as give Duran everyday playing time. I'd be all for keeping Kiké if Cora used him properly (i.e. as a late inning defensive OF replacement in a lead - probably in CF and move Duran to LF and sit Yoshida - or once or twice a week as a true utility guy. But Cora seems to still think this is 2021 Kiké, which was a long-tail outlier career year for him, and that healthy he's probably closer to the 1 fWAR Kiké, which is not an everyday starter.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 8, 2023 11:03:15 GMT -5
Well, we're two games from the all-star break, and just as we all foresaw, Jarren Duran is the team leader in WAR.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 8, 2023 11:37:11 GMT -5
By BR there are pitchers ahead of him as well as Verdugo - and a few tied with him (they seem to value defense very highly). But point taken.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 8, 2023 11:45:46 GMT -5
By BR there are pitchers ahead of him as well as Verdugo - and a few tied with him (they seem to value defense very highly). But point taken. Bref uses DRS and fangraphs uses OAA, and his DRS is -4 and his OAA is 0. I prefer OAA in general, and my eyeballs corroborate it in this case as well (including his being worse in LF than CF). Having said that, the difference in WAR is negligible between the two - 1.7 vs. 1.9.
But gee, Bref does really like Verdugo though... 2.9 WAR. It's like the fans aren't even poring over the Bref pages when they cast their all-star votes!
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 8, 2023 11:49:08 GMT -5
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jul 8, 2023 11:51:26 GMT -5
From that other guaranteed salary league, if this is happening in the NBA, it's got to be a factor in MLB. Not saying it's the factor, but equal or even slightly larger salary offers to FAs have to account for this. Add in for the Sox that getting to the playoffs has not happened consistently in Boston since 2018 (if a player wants to go to a winning team), and they could be back to the days of having to grossly overpay free agents to get them to come to Boston: www.bostonherald.com/2023/07/08/millionaires-tax-sent-celtics-forward-to-dallas-mavericks/FWIW, the reason the Celtics didn't match is because his salary would've cost $40m next year alone after the tax penalties.
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Post by bluechip on Jul 8, 2023 11:51:26 GMT -5
Games really should start at 1pm on Saturdays.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Jul 8, 2023 11:51:39 GMT -5
Cora starting Kiké @ SS 🤬
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Post by manfred on Jul 8, 2023 11:54:56 GMT -5
Cora starting Kiké @ SS 🤬 Probably safe against the A’s.
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Post by manfred on Jul 8, 2023 11:56:46 GMT -5
By BR there are pitchers ahead of him as well as Verdugo - and a few tied with him (they seem to value defense very highly). But point taken. Bref uses DRS and fangraphs uses OAA, and his DRS is -4 and his OAA is 0. I prefer OAA in general, and my eyeballs corroborate it in this case as well (including his being worse in LF than CF). Having said that, the difference in WAR is negligible between the two - 1.7 vs. 1.9.
But gee, Bref does really like Verdugo though... 2.9 WAR. It's like the fans aren't even poring over the Bref pages when they cast their all-star votes!
Verdugo is a WAR breaker. A full win differen e between bWAR and fWAR. Hard to see that as a definitive stat with that kind of discrepancy.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 8, 2023 12:29:48 GMT -5
Bref uses DRS and fangraphs uses OAA, and his DRS is -4 and his OAA is 0. I prefer OAA in general, and my eyeballs corroborate it in this case as well (including his being worse in LF than CF). Having said that, the difference in WAR is negligible between the two - 1.7 vs. 1.9.
But gee, Bref does really like Verdugo though... 2.9 WAR. It's like the fans aren't even poring over the Bref pages when they cast their all-star votes!
Verdugo is a WAR breaker. A full win differen e between bWAR and fWAR. Hard to see that as a definitive stat with that kind of discrepancy. Yeah, WAR tends to be taken way too literally. Best to mentally add a "+/-1 or so" caveat to it. And it doesn't account for roster fit at all, e.g., the fact that Turner has the flexibility JDM lacked to spell fielders at 3B and 1B, or Chang's ability to provide solid defense anywhere on the diamond (cf. Arroyo).
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Post by manfred on Jul 8, 2023 12:34:45 GMT -5
Verdugo is a WAR breaker. A full win differen e between bWAR and fWAR. Hard to see that as a definitive stat with that kind of discrepancy. Yeah, WAR tends to be taken way too literally. Best to mentally add a "+/-1 or so" caveat to it. And it doesn't account for roster fit at all, e.g., the fact that Turner has the flexibility JDM lacked to spell fielders at 3B and 1B, or Chang's ability to provide solid defense anywhere on the diamond (cf. Arroyo). I think there are tons of intangibles that get discounted. Not to get myself pilloried, but as bad as Kiké has been, I at least credit him with taking one for the team at SS. His defensive value kills his stats, but who would they play there otherwise? He is like the pitcher who eats it in a blow out. Don’t think there is a stat for that.
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Post by melvinhoggs on Jul 8, 2023 12:52:24 GMT -5
Yeah, WAR tends to be taken way too literally. Best to mentally add a "+/-1 or so" caveat to it. And it doesn't account for roster fit at all, e.g., the fact that Turner has the flexibility JDM lacked to spell fielders at 3B and 1B, or Chang's ability to provide solid defense anywhere on the diamond (cf. Arroyo). I think there are tons of intangibles that get discounted. Not to get myself pilloried, but as bad as Kiké has been, I at least credit him with taking one for the team at SS. His defensive value kills his stats, but who would they play there otherwise? He is like the pitcher who eats it in a blow out. Don’t think there is a stat for that. It's not just his defensive value killing his stats... and I don't think there's much credit to give in this regard. For "who would play there otherwise," you can acquire a full-defense no-bat SS (like a Yu Chang type) for not much at all – but I think they didn't for a few reasons: Kiké being liked in the clubhouse, avoiding further roster crunch when guys continue to come back from the IL, and some small hope he would regress to bad/meh instead of literally one of the worst players in the MLB (which is tied into paying him $10M, making him harder to cut on a whim). There's lots of ways WAR doesn't quite capture the full picture, but I wouldn't use Kiké as an example. -1.1 WAR captures his season thus far pretty succinctly, at least to me.
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Post by yuchangclan on Jul 8, 2023 13:25:11 GMT -5
Well, we're two games from the all-star break, and just as we all foresaw, Jarren Duran is the team leader in WAR. Other than a couple weeks where he looked mostly lost, Duran has been the best player on the team since he arrived. Cora was the only one who didn’t seem to notice it, though.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jul 8, 2023 14:25:18 GMT -5
media voices believe Arroyo could be cut to make way for Reyes ... with all the off days in July, they sure don't need 13 pitchers right now.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 8, 2023 14:36:24 GMT -5
A's starter, who is not a bad pitcher, was scratched
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jul 8, 2023 15:13:39 GMT -5
Poor Oakland - I don't remember seeing such a statistically anemic lineup at this stage of the season
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Post by ixnayexxus on Jul 8, 2023 15:25:28 GMT -5
Reading over Oakland's lineup made me pull the same face my parents had when I told them I wanted to be a ventriloquist
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 8, 2023 15:25:51 GMT -5
This is fun
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jul 8, 2023 15:29:00 GMT -5
A most pleasant first inning
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Post by melvinhoggs on Jul 8, 2023 15:29:36 GMT -5
Duran getting into scoring position and Turner knocking him in has become very much a winning combination lately.
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Post by terriblehondo on Jul 8, 2023 15:37:28 GMT -5
So Sox haven't had a legit SS for quite a bit. Then 1 day later he is on the bench. Why?
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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Jul 8, 2023 15:38:12 GMT -5
Duran leading off makes too much sense right now
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 8, 2023 15:40:42 GMT -5
So Sox haven't had a legit SS for quite a bit. Then 1 day later he is on the bench. Why? Cora has said Chang is the every day guy, they're prob just managing his hand still
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 8, 2023 15:48:59 GMT -5
MVP !! MVP !!!
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