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8/25-8/27 Red Sox vs. Dodgers Series Thread
shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,521
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Post by shagworthy on Aug 25, 2023 13:16:52 GMT -5
Bloom finds the right players, but Alex & Co are not maximizing their talent. Bush would be most at fault imo They really haven't had a good pitching coach since Carl Willis that I can think of.
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 25, 2023 13:17:54 GMT -5
Re: Brasier, I think some of it is luck...
Boston 2023: BABIP: .344 LOB: 52.8% HR/FB: 8.0%
Career: BABIP: .287 LOB: 67.9% HR/FB: 10.1%
LAD 2023: BABIP .188 LOB: 86.0% HR/FB: 4.2%
His fastball has ticked up a bit in LA, but a lot of that is probably weather / rest related; he got like 5 weeks off before he started pitching in LA, and the Boston numbers have the New England spring averaged in.
---
However, the two things that seems hugely different between Boston and LA is that his sinker has hugely improved and he's added a cutter. I don't think this is a coincidence, since his cutter and sinker have similar vertical drop but very different horizontal movement and a ~4 mph speed difference. Having both could well be enough to make both better.
There's still a lot of luck, though, and I still wouldn't want him over anyone else in our pen.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 25, 2023 13:20:22 GMT -5
Bloom finds the right players, but Alex & Co are not maximizing their talent. My opinion is the reason Betts "left" (I'm aware he was traded) and Braiser and Hernandez are doing better is due to the extraordinarily venomous attitudes so common around the Red Sox. Yes these guys are pros making millions of dollars but they are still human beings. This makes zero sense in regards to Kiké who had a career year in Boston, had an epic playoff performance with them, signed an extension, and recruited other guys to come to the team.
ADD: Or Brasier, for that matter, who had success in 2018 and seemed famously well-suited to high-pressure situations ("get back in the f-in' box").
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Post by bluechip on Aug 25, 2023 13:26:18 GMT -5
Bloom finds the right players, but Alex & Co are not maximizing their talent. Wasn’t Brasier here in 2018? He was. That’s when he resurrected his career
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 25, 2023 13:38:50 GMT -5
I hate Apple TV games. Radio night
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Post by Guidas on Aug 25, 2023 13:56:29 GMT -5
पंक्ति बनायें
Verdugo RF Devers 3B Turner DH Yoshida LF Duvall CF Casas 1B Story SS McGuire C Reyes 2B
Crawford P
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Post by Guidas on Aug 25, 2023 13:57:21 GMT -5
I hate Apple TV games. Radio night I'm supposed to pay $8 a month for three Red Sox games in a year, plus mostly crap content? Really?
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Post by chr31ter on Aug 25, 2023 13:59:45 GMT -5
Will Rafaela come up for two days when Abreu has his baby? If Abreu is having Rafaela's baby, Wilyer's probably going to be out for longer than two days.
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Post by ramireja on Aug 25, 2023 14:17:26 GMT -5
Lance Lynn is another guy who was DOA and is now reborn with the Dodgers. With White Sox: 119.2IP, 6.47ERA, 68 ERA+, 1.462 WHIP With Dodgers: 25IP, 1.44ERA, 305ERA+, 0.880WHIP It’s a Brasier-esque reversal of fortune for him. Unbelievable. Brasier hasn’t slowed down, either: With Red Sox: 21IP, 7.29ERA, 63ERA+, 1.571WHIP With Dodgers: 26.1IP, 1.03ERA, 428ERA+(!!!), 0.759WHIP The Brasier thing, I swear to god... I really want to know what's going on there, because the Red Sox front office really stood by him and kept him on the 40-man when everyone was howling to ditch him, and in a way his performance in LA vindicates that decision. But why the heck couldn't the Red Sox get that performance out of him? Along with a few other cases (Springs breaking out in TB, Perez and Eovaldi in Texas), I really wonder if the front office/analytics dept. is ahead of the coaching staff on pitchers - they're identifying the right guys but aren't pulling the performances out of them that other organizations are able to. But it's also possible that it's all just luck and small sample size stuff, or those guys just didn't feel as comfortable in Boston or something.
This stuff is just going to kind of happen though around the fringes of the roster, sometimes in our favor, sometimes not. Detroit might be wondering how we turned Schreiber into what he is now. Seattle (among other teams) with Bernardino. The Phillies with Pivetta, and so on. I'd also argue that Eovaldi is largely the same pitcher he was with us too.
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Post by ephus on Aug 25, 2023 14:18:18 GMT -5
This is fun: According to Spotrac.com for 2023
Freddie Freeman Mookie Betts $47,000,000
SP Kutter C Wong 1B Casas 2B Reyes SS Story RF Wilyer CF Duvall LF Masa
$45,624,500
Obviously some cherry picking here. You drop Wilyer and put Verdugo in, and the Red Sox number jumps to $51,204,500. Raffy and Turner add another $25M. We have our very well paid, locked-in guys, too. But all told, the Dodger's payroll is about $68M higher than Boston's.
The biggest take away for us as Red Sox fans, is it shows how much room the team SHOULD have moving forward to address needs - like starting pitching - while continuing to reap the benefits of a productive farm system. I don't expect this to be in the "what if Mookie never left" stories because a very small fraction of the fan base cares about this stuff even if it does have everything to do with developing a path to sustainable winning.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 25, 2023 14:25:53 GMT -5
This is fun: According to Spotrac.com for 2023 Freddie Freeman Mookie Betts $47,000,000 SP Kutter C Wong 1B Casas 2B Reyes SS Story RF Wilyer CF Duvall LF Masa $45,624,500 Obviously some cherry picking here. You drop Wilyer and put Verdugo in, and the Red Sox number jumps to $51,204,500. Raffy and Turner add another $25M. We have our very well paid, locked-in guys, too. But all told, the Dodger's payroll is about $68M higher than Boston's. The biggest take away for us as Red Sox fans, is it shows how much room the team SHOULD have moving forward to address needs - like starting pitching - while continuing to reap the benefits of a productive farm system. I don't expect this to be in the "what if Mookie never left" stories because a very small fraction of the fan base cares about this stuff even if it does have everything to do with developing a path to sustainable winning. Another takeaway is that, in an era when most major long-term contracts seem like debacles, LA has chosen really well with who they've given them out to.
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Post by yuchangclan on Aug 25, 2023 14:40:24 GMT -5
Well we did get two players who will be in the Sox starting lineup tonight !! And one decoy .... And those two players have a combined WAR that is only 1.1 lower than Mookie's (it'd be a lot closer if Verdugo didn't take a super-extended all-star break)! Sox would actually be ahead if they had kept Graterol instead of ending up with Downs. Graterol is having his best season, by far(though I have little confidence he’d be doing the same in Boston this year).
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Post by yuchangclan on Aug 25, 2023 14:52:37 GMT -5
This is fun: According to Spotrac.com for 2023 Freddie Freeman Mookie Betts $47,000,000 SP Kutter C Wong 1B Casas 2B Reyes SS Story RF Wilyer CF Duvall LF Masa $45,624,500 Obviously some cherry picking here. You drop Wilyer and put Verdugo in, and the Red Sox number jumps to $51,204,500. Raffy and Turner add another $25M. We have our very well paid, locked-in guys, too. But all told, the Dodger's payroll is about $68M higher than Boston's. The biggest take away for us as Red Sox fans, is it shows how much room the team SHOULD have moving forward to address needs - like starting pitching - while continuing to reap the benefits of a productive farm system. I don't expect this to be in the "what if Mookie never left" stories because a very small fraction of the fan base cares about this stuff even if it does have everything to do with developing a path to sustainable winning. Another takeaway is that, in an era when most major long-term contracts seem like debacles, LA has chosen really well with who they've given them out to. The Dodgers really kind of stole Freeman, getting him for reasonable money on a team-friendly 6 year term. Meanwhile, Freeman seems to be getting better with age as he cements himself as a slam dunk future Hall of Famer.
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Post by soxfaninnj on Aug 25, 2023 14:52:44 GMT -5
And those two players have a combined WAR that is only 1.1 lower than Mookie's (it'd be a lot closer if Verdugo didn't take a super-extended all-star break)! Sox would actually be ahead if they had kept Graterol instead of ending up with Downs. Graterol is having his best season, by far(though I have little confidence he’d be doing the same in Boston this year). And Wong?
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Post by Guidas on Aug 25, 2023 15:04:23 GMT -5
This is fun: According to Spotrac.com for 2023 Freddie Freeman Mookie Betts $47,000,000 SP Kutter C Wong 1B Casas 2B Reyes SS Story RF Wilyer CF Duvall LF Masa $45,624,500 Obviously some cherry picking here. You drop Wilyer and put Verdugo in, and the Red Sox number jumps to $51,204,500. Raffy and Turner add another $25M. We have our very well paid, locked-in guys, too. But all told, the Dodger's payroll is about $68M higher than Boston's. The biggest take away for us as Red Sox fans, is it shows how much room the team SHOULD have moving forward to address needs - like starting pitching - while continuing to reap the benefits of a productive farm system. I don't expect this to be in the "what if Mookie never left" stories because a very small fraction of the fan base cares about this stuff even if it does have everything to do with developing a path to sustainable winning. Another takeaway is that, in an era when most major long-term contracts seem like debacles, LA has chosen really well with who they've given them out to. Freeman - almost certainly a HOF player - has hit a career high and his third best career year fWAR during his two years in LA, despite those typically being "decline years." Mookie - almost certainly a HOF player - has enjoyed his third and fourth best career fWARs in his last two years in LA. Also, while the "fun" experiment above does give the Sox a lot of bodies, consider: Freeman "]6.2 fWAR/$49.5M Value Betts 7.0 fWAR/$55.7 Value That means those two players alone have generated a combined 13.2 fWAR and $105.2 value ($58M in excess value above salaries) while the players listed above combined 6.2 fWAR and $51.9M in value ($6.3M in excess value above salaries). As Incandenza says, the Dodgers FO has chosen well where to allocate resources. These two players allow LAD to spend the rest of their money finding value at many more positions than the Sox. And that's before t-shirts, butts in seats, streaming and TV revenue, etc. that they contribute to generate. In essence, they are a bargain all the way around, where as the Sox players are much less so. Politely, it seems like the Dodgers are having all the "fun" here.
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Post by wildsox on Aug 25, 2023 15:07:43 GMT -5
पंक्ति बनायें Verdugo RF Devers 3B Turner DH Yoshida LF Duvall CF Casas 1B Story SS McGuire C Reyes 2B Crawford P Where’s Wilyer?
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 25, 2023 15:17:02 GMT -5
I just want to get this series over with so everyone can stop the "what if they didn't trade Betts" stuff. (and by everyone I am including the media). It's been 3 years and that horse has been beaten so thoroughly it looks like a pudding pop. Oh my God, quote of the month right here. I am already sick of it. Betts wants his cake and eat it too. He trys to much to be the nice guy. He never countered the Red Sox offer. The Sox to drop the ball but give me a break. He never wanted to be here. My opinion. Funny thing is Maybe Verdugo is expendable because of this Abreu kid. We will see.
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pd
Rookie
Posts: 241
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Post by pd on Aug 25, 2023 15:25:37 GMT -5
Will Rafaela come up for two days when Abreu has his baby? If Abreu is having Rafaela's baby, Wilyer's probably going to be out for longer than two days. I got a good chuckle out of that one, well done.
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 25, 2023 15:59:03 GMT -5
Um how does Freddie Freeman have 17 SB on the season? Is the NL even trying?
Edit: LAD's lineup is also absurdly top heavy. 1/2 are incredible. 3 is solid and a huge differential at his position. 4 is serviceable. 5-9 are hot garbage.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 25, 2023 16:09:43 GMT -5
Um how does Freddie Freeman have 17 SB on the season? Is the NL even trying?
Edit: LAD's lineup is also absurdly top heavy. 1/2 are incredible. 3 is solid and a huge differential at his position. 4 is serviceable. 5-9 are hot garbage.
Hmm, looks like Jason Heyward's name needs to be submitted to the Commission to Investigate How in the Hell Every Player Has a Resurgence When They Go to the Dodgers (Except Bellinger Who Goes the Other Way).
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 25, 2023 16:21:53 GMT -5
Um how does Freddie Freeman have 17 SB on the season? Is the NL even trying?
Edit: LAD's lineup is also absurdly top heavy. 1/2 are incredible. 3 is solid and a huge differential at his position. 4 is serviceable. 5-9 are hot garbage.
Hmm, looks like Jason Heyward's name needs to be submitted to the Commission to Investigate How in the Hell Every Player Has a Resurgence When They Go to the Dodgers (Except Bellinger Who Goes the Other Way). The xwOBA < wOBA Commission shall come for him soon! Although even besides that he's been a bit better this year than the last two.
His defensive metrics are pretty impressive too, especially for age 34.
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Post by station13 on Aug 25, 2023 17:02:26 GMT -5
Mookie with a 1.010 OPS ! wow hope he gets a huge welcome back. He can go 5-5 again as long as we win.
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Post by seamus on Aug 25, 2023 17:08:51 GMT -5
Jason Heyward is maybe the weirdest player of the last 20 years (excepting Greinke, who is mostly weird on personality grounds). He has a tremendous rookie season at age 20 (6.4 bWAR!) and people understandably start dreaming on a Hall of Fame career. The bat then regresses before completely disappearing in Chicago after Theo signs him to a head-scratching deal, but he's a good enough fielder and nice enough guy that nobody seems to mind all that much even though it was arguably the worst contract in baseball in terms of ROI. There was a stretch where he was probably the worst hitter in baseball - and that stretch coincided with the Cubs winning the World Series. Through it all, he's still tallied about 35-40 WAR and will probably get some courtesy votes for Cooperstown.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 25, 2023 17:24:52 GMT -5
Jason Heyward is maybe the weirdest player of the last 20 years (excepting Greinke, who is mostly weird on personality grounds). He has a tremendous rookie season at age 20 (6.4 bWAR!) and people understandably start dreaming on a Hall of Fame career. The bat then regresses before completely disappearing in Chicago after Theo signs him to a head-scratching deal, but he's a good enough fielder and nice enough guy that nobody seems to mind all that much even though it was arguably the worst contract in baseball in terms of ROI. There was a stretch where he was probably the worst hitter in baseball - and that stretch coincided with the Cubs winning the World Series. Through it all, he's still tallied about 35-40 WAR and will probably get some courtesy votes for Cooperstown. Apparently it's a common view in Chicago that he was worth his whole contract and then some because he gave a rousing pep talk to the team and then they won the World Series.
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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Aug 25, 2023 17:54:21 GMT -5
Jason Heyward is maybe the weirdest player of the last 20 years (excepting Greinke, who is mostly weird on personality grounds). He has a tremendous rookie season at age 20 (6.4 bWAR!) and people understandably start dreaming on a Hall of Fame career. The bat then regresses before completely disappearing in Chicago after Theo signs him to a head-scratching deal, but he's a good enough fielder and nice enough guy that nobody seems to mind all that much even though it was arguably the worst contract in baseball in terms of ROI. There was a stretch where he was probably the worst hitter in baseball - and that stretch coincided with the Cubs winning the World Series. Through it all, he's still tallied about 35-40 WAR and will probably get some courtesy votes for Cooperstown. Apparently it's a common view in Chicago that he was worth his whole contract and then some because he gave a rousing pep talk to the team and then they won the World Series. If that’s what it takes to cement legend status then Chris Sale needs to have a statue of him yelling in the dugout during the 2018 World Series right outside Fenway
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