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Patriots 2023 Season Thread
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Post by philarhody on Sept 24, 2023 18:32:53 GMT -5
Juju and Jones clearly aren't on same page, 2 times on 3rd down Jones throws indicate JuJu didn't do what he was expecting. Nevermind with the other WR and Douglas he's not a great fit. I'd play Boutte and Thornton when he's healthy. I don't think it's health related either, but Jones needs guys to either get open or run great routes, JuJu isn't doing that. I like Juju as the receiver to run three levels of crossers and slants. But trying to get him to win 50/50 balls seems like a waste of Parker and the tight ends.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 24, 2023 20:06:38 GMT -5
I feel the need to keep saying this, Cole Strange stinks.
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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Sept 24, 2023 21:38:20 GMT -5
JC Jackson was a healthy scratch for the Chargers today. So far not re-signing him to a huge deal has been one of Bill’s best recent moves. Absolutely loving what I am seeing from Christian Gonzalez so far; guy absolutely looks the part of a true shut-down corner. Hope today gives them some momentum, got a few winnable games coming up
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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Sept 24, 2023 21:41:50 GMT -5
Also, the Jets might be the only team in the AFC with a worse offensive line than the Pats. Zach Wilson is terrible and always will be, but that line definitely didn’t do him any favors today
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Sept 24, 2023 21:53:16 GMT -5
Jets were good enough to beat the Bills two weeks ago so I am not having any asterisk nonsense on the W. NE Played with 3 of top 4 CBs out & still held Jets to 170 yards.
One for the win column and now on to Dallas.
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cdj
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Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on Sept 24, 2023 22:34:30 GMT -5
I feel the need to keep saying this, Cole Strange stinks. I don’t think he’s good but the offensive line fell apart for a few drives after Strange exited and Mafi replaced him Might be more of an indicator that Mafi isn’t good right now than anything else
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 25, 2023 6:14:52 GMT -5
Jackobi was back and had another good game. This is really a debacle for Bill. JuJu has been useless.
It's also very concerning that in Patriots win, the only real story is how bad Zach Wilson is, and the Patriots were a completion away from being 0-3.
Dallas lost to Arizona so glass half full would suggest they're not the juggernaut everyone claims they are (plus that injury in their secondary is big)
Glass half empty is that you can expect Dallas to be dialed in after an embarrassing loss.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 25, 2023 7:43:44 GMT -5
I feel the need to keep saying this, Cole Strange stinks. I don’t think he’s good but the offensive line fell apart for a few drives after Strange exited and Mafi replaced him Might be more of an indicator that Mafi isn’t good right now than anything else Yea, our 5th round pick probably isn’t ready to play much… not a surprise.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 25, 2023 8:32:33 GMT -5
Juju and Jones clearly aren't on same page, 2 times on 3rd down Jones throws indicate JuJu didn't do what he was expecting. Nevermind with the other WR and Douglas he's not a great fit. I'd play Boutte and Thornton when he's healthy. I don't think it's health related either, but Jones needs guys to either get open or run great routes, JuJu isn't doing that. I like Juju as the receiver to run three levels of crossers and slants. But trying to get him to win 50/50 balls seems like a waste of Parker and the tight ends. 3 levels? He's a short area possession receiver with yac ability. The problem is he isn't on the same page with Jones, either no chemistry or doesn't know the plays. Plus those routes are better run by Bourne and Douglas. It's why I talked about trading Bourne early on after signing him, you can't have so many similar type players. Add in all the RB throws, too many players running routes in same area. It leads to them having those guys run routes they shouldn't be. Give me Boutte and Thornton, Boutte showed ability to get open deep and already has more chemistry with Mac Jones. Thornton adds speed when he's healthy. Heck I'd give Reagor a few plays a game now to see if he can run down a few deep passes a game. Everyone made fun of Patriots not playing Bourne a ton last year. It made sense though, you need the right mix.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 25, 2023 8:52:35 GMT -5
I don't know, it's hard watching live to see how OG do unless they really mess up and you get replays. I didn't notice a difference when Strange went out. Bill went more run with the lead and four drives ended in Henry incomplete pass, Bad Jones run, with no JuJu incomplete passes.
I thought first game was Stevenson sick and not fully healthy. It's clear to me now, the difference is zone blocking versus power run blocking. Matt Patricia switching it up last year now looks rather smart. Zeke needs to start, he's a much better fit with his style than Stevenson.
I do wonder if the same thing is true with Cole Strange. He wasn't good to start last year, but he came on the 2nd half of last year. He was rather good by the end of the year. Now he looks like he did to start last year. Maybe he just needs time or maybe it's the OL coach and scheme. He is a smaller athletic guard.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 25, 2023 9:53:59 GMT -5
I like Juju as the receiver to run three levels of crossers and slants. But trying to get him to win 50/50 balls seems like a waste of Parker and the tight ends. 3 levels? He's a short area possession receiver with yac ability. The problem is he isn't on the same page with Jones, either no chemistry or doesn't know the plays. Plus those routes are better run by Bourne and Douglas. It's why I talked about trading Bourne early on after signing him, you can't have so many similar type players. Add in all the RB throws, too many players running routes in same area. It leads to them having those guys run routes they shouldn't be. Give me Boutte and Thornton, Boutte showed ability to get open deep and already has more chemistry with Mac Jones. Thornton adds speed when he's healthy. Heck I'd give Reagor a few plays a game now to see if he can run down a few deep passes a game. Everyone made fun of Patriots not playing Bourne a ton last year. It made sense though, you need the right mix. That or his knee is handicapping his ability to create separation and space.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 25, 2023 9:57:36 GMT -5
To back up my claim, per next gen stats, Jones is #1 in NFL with 16 passes over 20 yards. He's 32nd out of 33 in completion percentage, only 2 out of 16.
I might be wrong, but I feel most of those are to Bourne. Which is a big issue, along with things like not getting a flag on the Douglas play last game.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 25, 2023 10:13:45 GMT -5
3 levels? He's a short area possession receiver with yac ability. The problem is he isn't on the same page with Jones, either no chemistry or doesn't know the plays. Plus those routes are better run by Bourne and Douglas. It's why I talked about trading Bourne early on after signing him, you can't have so many similar type players. Add in all the RB throws, too many players running routes in same area. It leads to them having those guys run routes they shouldn't be. Give me Boutte and Thornton, Boutte showed ability to get open deep and already has more chemistry with Mac Jones. Thornton adds speed when he's healthy. Heck I'd give Reagor a few plays a game now to see if he can run down a few deep passes a game. Everyone made fun of Patriots not playing Bourne a ton last year. It made sense though, you need the right mix. That or his knee is handicapping his ability to create separation and space. Average yards per catch in air before yac, 7, 7.7, 4.4, 4.1, 6.0 and 3.7. That's 4.5 yards the last 4 years, he's not a guy that gets open down the field. Younger big Ben who was mobile and Mahomes running around allowed that to increase some on broken plays, it won't with Mac and this OL. Douglas is much better for those type of routes, plus he adds much needed speed. Bourne might be slow, but has unreal footwork to allows him to get open. JuJu game is a bunch of easy short passes where he picks up yac yards. He's simple been beaten out by an electric rookie slot WR.
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Post by texs31 on Sept 25, 2023 10:53:05 GMT -5
To back up my claim, per next gen stats, Jones is #1 in NFL with 16 passes over 20 yards. He's 32nd out of 33 in completion percentage, only 2 out of 16. I might be wrong, but I feel most of those are to Bourne. Which is a big issue, along with things like not getting a flag on the Douglas play last game. To your other point, I felt like 2 mid-long attempts yesterday were to JJSS and he turned into the field while the throw went to the sideline. If I have that recollection correct, then it's more evidence of he and Jones not being on the same page.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Sept 25, 2023 14:28:27 GMT -5
Jackobi was back and had another good game. This is really a debacle for Bill. JuJu has been useless. It's also very concerning that in Patriots win, the only real story is how bad Zach Wilson is, and the Patriots were a completion away from being 0-3.Dallas lost to Arizona so glass half full would suggest they're not the juggernaut everyone claims they are (plus that injury in their secondary is big) Glass half empty is that you can expect Dallas to be dialed in after an embarrassing loss. This might be your only story. Others who watched the game saw a good NFL road victory under adverse field conditions. BAL lost at home to Indy. Dallas lost to ARI. Media darling JAX got manhandled by the Texans (and their rookie QB). NFL wins are never to be apologized for. Reminder: Zach Wilson was good enough to beat the Buffalo Bills two short weeks ago. He was 14-21 and turnover free. Of course NE eliminated the Jets ground game which put the game on Zach & his receivers. Well coached & well played. And without any of the Jones boys. What I am heartened by after three weeks against a stiff early schedule (Week 1: 2022 SB Team w/dominant OL & DL; Week 2: 2023 Juggernaut Team; Week 3: alleged SB Roster sans QB Rodgers that does indeed have an excellent Defense) while acknowledging there is much to improve on, mostly on offense): Patriots Offensive Plays/Yards/Avg: 218 1020 4.7 Opponents Offensive Plays/Yards/Avg: 183 811 4.4 As much as the offense could stand to get better -- and I expect they will, given time -- the Patriots have so far more than held their own. Mistakes have hurt them, mostly the turnovers. That, and some uneven line play. But staying on the field is generally a factor in winning, and they are already doing that.
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Post by jmei on Sept 25, 2023 14:39:48 GMT -5
Trent Brown looked really good yesterday. That was unexpected. Some guys just need a little extra motivation and he might be one of those guys.
Mac Jones is almost certainly a dirty (OK, call it petty instead if you prefer) player. He plays the position where it does the least damage to other players, but it's a pattern of dickish after-the-whistle behavior now. Not the worst thing in the world given his position, but he's solidly earned that reputation at this point. Not just from the alleged crotch hit, but for asininely pushing the pile well after the whistle had blown as well.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 25, 2023 14:50:35 GMT -5
Not just from the alleged crotch hit I think it was actually Kendrick Bourne who accidentally hit Sauce in the nuts. EDIT: saw a different angle and yeah it was Mac, cheap shot. He needs to either stop doing that or to get out of the league.
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rasimon
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Post by rasimon on Sept 25, 2023 16:31:26 GMT -5
Trent Brown looked really good yesterday. That was unexpected. Some guys just need a little extra motivation and he might be one of those guys. PFF has Trent Brown as the #1 ranked tackle in the NFL so far this season! He was really good yesterday. Other Pats who PFF likes alot: Christian Gonzalez #4 CB David Andrews #8 Center Jabrill Peppers #10 S Hunter Henry #13 TE Who does PFF not like? Sidy Sow #72 of 73 OGs Antonio Mafi #67 of 73 OGs Cole Strange #59 of 73 OGs Calvin Anderson #65 of 68 OTs Vedarian Lowe #61 of 68 OTs Kayshon Boutte #110 of 112 WRs Lawrence Guy #117 of 126 IDL Davon Godchaux #91 of 126 IDLs Deatrich Wise #92 of 112 Edge Bryce Baringer #30 of 31 Ps (none of these come as a surprise except Trent Brown and Deatrich Wise)
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 25, 2023 16:37:09 GMT -5
Jackobi was back and had another good game. This is really a debacle for Bill. JuJu has been useless. It's also very concerning that in Patriots win, the only real story is how bad Zach Wilson is, and the Patriots were a completion away from being 0-3.Dallas lost to Arizona so glass half full would suggest they're not the juggernaut everyone claims they are (plus that injury in their secondary is big) Glass half empty is that you can expect Dallas to be dialed in after an embarrassing loss. This might be your only story. Others who watched the game saw a good NFL road victory under adverse field conditions. BAL lost at home to Indy. Dallas lost to ARI. Media darling JAX got manhandled by the Texans (and their rookie QB). NFL wins are never to be apologized for. Reminder: Zach Wilson was good enough to beat the Buffalo Bills two short weeks ago. He was 14-21 and turnover free. Of course NE eliminated the Jets ground game which put the game on Zach & his receivers. Well coached & well played. And without any of the Jones boys. What I am heartened by after three weeks against a stiff early schedule (Week 1: 2022 SB Team w/dominant OL & DL; Week 2: 2023 Juggernaut Team; Week 3: alleged SB Roster sans QB Rodgers that does indeed have an excellent Defense) while acknowledging there is much to improve on, mostly on offense): Patriots Offensive Plays/Yards/Avg: 218 1020 4.7 Opponents Offensive Plays/Yards/Avg: 183 811 4.4 As much as the offense could stand to get better -- and I expect they will, given time -- the Patriots have so far more than held their own. Mistakes have hurt them, mostly the turnovers. That, and some uneven line play. But staying on the field is generally a factor in winning, and they are already doing that. Zach Wilson might be the worst QB in the league since Ryan Leaf. I have no idea what happened to Buffalo in week 1, but Wilson is truly atrocious. Any given Sunday is still a thing and a win is a win, but Wilson, despite being atrocious on Sunday, still almost won on a great throw to the end zone. I don't do the could of, should of in losses so not trying to do that with a win, but it was still extremely close despite the atrocity at QB. The game weather was terrible so there is an excuse to be made there, but the Patriots should have won by more than 5 with how that game played out. Wilson's lack of awareness gave the Patriots 2 and the ball. Happy with the win, but it wasn't really a feel good win other than the fact it was one.
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Post by texs31 on Sept 26, 2023 8:55:50 GMT -5
Looks like Ekuale tore his bicep. Tough break.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 26, 2023 11:05:58 GMT -5
Trent Brown looked really good yesterday. That was unexpected. Some guys just need a little extra motivation and he might be one of those guys. PFF has Trent Brown as the #1 ranked tackle in the NFL so far this season! He was really good yesterday. Other Pats who PFF likes alot: Christian Gonzalez #4 CB David Andrews #8 Center Jabrill Peppers #10 S Hunter Henry #13 TE Who does PFF not like? Sidy Sow #72 of 73 OGs Antonio Mafi #67 of 73 OGs Cole Strange #59 of 73 OGs Calvin Anderson #65 of 68 OTs Vedarian Lowe #61 of 68 OTs Kayshon Boutte #110 of 112 WRs Lawrence Guy #117 of 126 IDL Davon Godchaux #91 of 126 IDLs Deatrich Wise #92 of 112 Edge Bryce Baringer #30 of 31 Ps (none of these come as a surprise except Trent Brown and Deatrich Wise) I have to say I'm surprised Baringer is rated that low. Huge leg, biggest issue coming out was inside 20 kicks, sitting at almost 60% and doing exactly what you want. Bill is clearly training him to be a complete kicker and when its complete he might be like the Jets punter. Hasn't been anything special so far, just given last year I'm surprised they think he's basically worst in league. 2nd I'd add Lowe, again kinda hard to Judge OL live sometimes, but against that very good Jets D, he looked much better than Anderson. Heck the whole OL frankly looked better pass blocking versus Jets than they did last year.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 26, 2023 11:08:41 GMT -5
Looks like Ekuale tore his bicep. Tough break. Too bad, I like him. At least we have good depth at DT. We get more Sam Robert's now, just stay away from the CBs.
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Post by texs31 on Sept 26, 2023 11:17:19 GMT -5
On the pass rush, would imagine White will get more snaps from the inside.
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cdj
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Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on Sept 26, 2023 12:07:44 GMT -5
Carl Davis is sitting there on the Seahawks PS as well I believe if they want to go that route
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rasimon
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Post by rasimon on Sept 26, 2023 12:33:32 GMT -5
PFF has Trent Brown as the #1 ranked tackle in the NFL so far this season! He was really good yesterday. Other Pats who PFF likes alot: Christian Gonzalez #4 CB David Andrews #8 Center Jabrill Peppers #10 S Hunter Henry #13 TE Who does PFF not like? Sidy Sow #72 of 73 OGs Antonio Mafi #67 of 73 OGs Cole Strange #59 of 73 OGs Calvin Anderson #65 of 68 OTs Vedarian Lowe #61 of 68 OTs Kayshon Boutte #110 of 112 WRs Lawrence Guy #117 of 126 IDL Davon Godchaux #91 of 126 IDLs Deatrich Wise #92 of 112 Edge Bryce Baringer #30 of 31 Ps (none of these come as a surprise except Trent Brown and Deatrich Wise) I have to say I'm surprised Baringer is rated that low. Huge leg, biggest issue coming out was inside 20 kicks, sitting at almost 60% and doing exactly what you want. Bill is clearly training him to be a complete kicker and when its complete he might be like the Jets punter. Hasn't been anything special so far, just given last year I'm surprised they think he's basically worst in league. 2nd I'd add Lowe, again kinda hard to Judge OL live sometimes, but against that very good Jets D, he looked much better than Anderson. Heck the whole OL frankly looked better pass blocking versus Jets than they did last year. Pff says for Lowe 2023 145 snaps 64 run plays 81 pass plays 11 QB pressures 1 sack 2 hits 8 hurries
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