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Patriots 2023 Season Thread
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Post by texs31 on Nov 30, 2023 21:23:37 GMT -5
Also, quotes today from "sources in the locker room" about how positive he's been throughout all this and how hard he works. I'm at the point where anyone who believes ANY of this "insider take" crap (positive or negative) is a rube. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Nov 30, 2023 22:09:38 GMT -5
Also, quotes today from "sources in the locker room" about how positive he's been throughout all this and how hard he works. I'm at the point where anyone who believes ANY of this "insider take" crap (positive or negative) is a rube. Isn't Mike Lombardi considered a Belichick guy? Former staffer. I'm honestly of the opposite opinion of those who think the opposite. I doubt the players are going to come out and say they hate the guy. |
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Post by marrcus on Dec 1, 2023 0:29:36 GMT -5
LA fav's -5.5 while losing 3g in row and traveling W-East. If it's a nice day and guys play hard in a game plan for Zappe they should win this one. I'm not picking them, but I probably should. Too many other things going on (like missed FG?). Lose.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 1, 2023 7:03:09 GMT -5
This article is supposed to Make Ziegler look good but it makes him look awful if people take a step back and realize that he was the GM, supposedly knew what to do but had no spine to do it and deferred to someone else for all the decisions. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 1, 2023 7:41:00 GMT -5
This article is supposed to Make Ziegler look good but it makes him look awful if people take a step back and realize that he was the GM, supposedly knew what to do but had no spine to do it and deferred to someone else for all the decisions. There's a lot of reasons why McDaniels doesn't work as a head coach and, if true, further evidence why he's not a good GM, but as you mentioned, he wasn't. If you believed that much in the kid then you make the move. Period. They clearly brought in Garapollo to make McDaniels happy. Let the kid develop under him and play during the inevitable injury. They gave Garapollo way too much given his history. I know they have meetings and make decisions as a group, but he has final say. |
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Post by cdj on Dec 1, 2023 7:55:52 GMT -5
This article is supposed to Make Ziegler look good but it makes him look awful if people take a step back and realize that he was the GM, supposedly knew what to do but had no spine to do it and deferred to someone else for all the decisions. I would imagine the pecking order on who has final say wasn’t his call to make. The Patriots have always had big names in the Director of Player Personnel role (guys like Caserio and Ziegler) but it ain’t them that calls the shots. I’d imagine that was one of McDaniels conditions for taking the Raiders job- he gets final say on the roster. Pretty sure he had it in Denver too iirc |
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Post by jmei on Dec 1, 2023 9:34:40 GMT -5
Easy to throw rocks with the power of hindsight. I don’t put a lot of weight in the “we had him high on our draft board” stuff that only comes out afterwards.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 1, 2023 10:12:31 GMT -5
Easy to throw rocks with the power of hindsight. I don’t put a lot of weight in the “we had him high on our draft board” stuff that only comes out afterwards. I'm sure there are key omits too. Like, he could have also been as high or higher on Bryce Young. Not that he's a confirmed bust or anything, but no one is going to be doing any victory laps on could have, would have, should have on Young this year. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 1, 2023 11:30:56 GMT -5
This article is supposed to Make Ziegler look good but it makes him look awful if people take a step back and realize that he was the GM, supposedly knew what to do but had no spine to do it and deferred to someone else for all the decisions. I would imagine the pecking order on who has final say wasn’t his call to make. The Patriots have always had big names in the Director of Player Personnel role (guys like Caserio and Ziegler) but it ain’t them that calls the shots. I’d imagine that was one of McDaniels conditions for taking the Raiders job- he gets final say on the roster. Pretty sure he had it in Denver too iirc “I mean, at the end of the day as the general manager and as the one leading the charge on the scouting side and personnel and college and pro, that direction will come from me in terms of the construction of the roster,” Ziegler said. His own words. Problem is, if we are to believe this article, he’s too nice and he’s friends with Josh and wanted to “be on the same page” so he deferred. There’s a fine line but not making decisions OR the inability to sell your decisions are both bad characteristics in a GM. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 1, 2023 11:39:40 GMT -5
Yeah that article written to make Zeigler look good, makes him look horrible. Like why didn't you still sign Stidham? Completely knew the offense and you needed a great backup with Jimmy. No way Stidham signs with Broncos thinking he has a better chance at playing with Wilson over Jimmy. He was literally brought in to stop exactly what he let happen with McDaniels.
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Post by mobaz on Dec 1, 2023 13:37:24 GMT -5
I think Zeigler thought he'd actually be moving up in responsibility but just ended up in the same place with the buck stopping with McDaniels instead of BB. Lack of spine, ill communication, or what, I mostly like the idea of an independent voice around.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 1, 2023 13:46:11 GMT -5
I think Zeigler thought he'd actually be moving up in responsibility but just ended up in the same place with the buck stopping with McDaniels instead of BB. Lack of spine, ill communication, or what, I mostly like the idea of an independent voice around. We all like independent voices but they are useless if you don’t have the backbone to go with your opinion (if you’re the GM) or if you can never sell your opinion to others |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Dec 1, 2023 18:19:00 GMT -5
Also, quotes today from "sources in the locker room" about how positive he's been throughout all this and how hard he works. I'm at the point where anyone who believes ANY of this "insider take" crap (positive or negative) is a rube. Former staffer. I'm honestly of the opposite opinion of those who think the opposite. I doubt the players are going to come out and say they hate the guy. I like Lombardi & regularly listen to his podcast w/Femi & follow on Twitter. That said, he regularly talks out of his arse too. But he's usually sharp enough to collect himself and blur his tracks. Here I think he's stanning for BB by dumping it all on Mac, whose performance has been awful. But I've seen zero evidence his teammates don't like him and can cite many examples of his teammates, unprovoked, celebrating him (check out the postgame interview he gave post SEC title game when the injured All-American OL (plays for Eagles now) CARTWHEELED over to where Mac was being interviewed just to catch his attention. Remember his college WRs saying they rather play for Mac than Tua (one now does -- oops!). Heard Tavai rave about him today. That said, I agree with Lombardi's point about Mac being out of line being demonstrative towards Gesicki running a bad route in the last game. It was clearly a mix-up & he hasn't been playing like Tom Brady or Dan Marino, so maybe save it for the sideline. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 1, 2023 18:47:06 GMT -5
Isn't Mike Lombardi considered a Belichick guy? Former staffer. I'm honestly of the opposite opinion of those who think the opposite. I doubt the players are going to come out and say they hate the guy. I like Lombardi & regularly listen to his podcast w/Femi & follow on Twitter. That said, he regularly talks out of his arse too. But he's usually sharp enough to collect himself and blur his tracks. Here I think he's stanning for BB by dumping it all on Mac, whose performance has been awful. But I've seen zero evidence his teammates don't like him and can cite many examples of his teammates, unprovoked, celebrating him (check out the postgame interview he gave post SEC title game when the injured All-American OL (plays for Eagles now) CARTWHEELED over to where Mac was being interviewed just to catch his attention. Remember his college WRs saying they rather play for Mac than Tua (one now does -- oops!). Heard Tavai rave about him today. That said, I agree with Lombardi's point about Mac being out of line being demonstrative towards Gesicki running a bad route in the last game. It was clearly a mix-up & he hasn't been playing like Tom Brady or Dan Marino, so maybe save it for the sideline. My quibble is that, unlike the JuJu thing, I've seen reports on this by at least 4 different guys (Callahan, Breer, Cowherd, Lombardi). I think that adds some level of validation, even if one is a national guy and you have to question how much they'd know about the locker room. I would pair that with Devin McCourty saying last year the locker room was split over Mac and Zappe starting. I can't imagine being a pro-Zappe guy last year and then being happy with the situation and the guy the way this season has played out. Julian Edelman has commented on his mannerisms on the sideline and wasn't a fan. The team didn't defend Mac during the nut tap controversy and I believe McCourty also said last year the players had a talk to him about that stuff. I would also point that the offense seemed to get a quick spark when Zappe was in, but that could be other factors other than elation of trying something new. I would have mentioned mannerisms with Gesicki. I think there's some smoke there. I would say some antics in college are OK where when you're a pro that stuff doesn't fly. I would also say that when you're winning annoying antics are ignored. Like Bill being a grump after games. It was fun when they were winning, now I find it annoying. I do take former staffer Lombardi more seriously than the others. He was the guy that said you'd have to be an idiot to take DK over N'Keal. I know he and Bill have a relation, but that's a fair point to pin more on Mac just to defend his guy. Hated or liked, it truly doesn't change anything. He lost his job because he's not good and I don't see him getting it back. At this point they're just going with "not Mac" rather than anything Zappe has done. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Dec 1, 2023 19:20:25 GMT -5
You went cowherd. Did George Santos share thoughts too?
I did not hear McCourty say the locker room was "split."
"He lost his job ... not getting it back." I believe we're in agreement here.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 1, 2023 20:25:09 GMT -5
You went cowherd. Did George Santos share thoughts too? I did not hear McCourty say the locker room was "split." "He lost his job ... not getting it back." I believe we're in agreement here. Just a name in a list of names on Cowherd. In regards to McCourty. He made those remarks, but also that he thought Mac was the future and was a Mac supporter. He thought it spoke more about the offense as a whole, but still, guys were in the locker room last year wanting to stick with Zappe. www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/patriots-locker-room-drama-players-were-apparently-split-on-who-should-start-at-quarterback-in-2022/But it's basically splitting hairs at this point. |
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Post by cdj on Dec 1, 2023 20:50:53 GMT -5
Penix vs Nix on TV
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Post by rasimon on Dec 2, 2023 13:17:29 GMT -5
Interesting study Aging curves by position www.pff.com/news/nfl-investigating-positional-aging-curves-with-pff-warThey use pff war as a measure of value. To evaluate aging, they ask what percentage of players total war comes at each age. Results Speed positions burn out quickly. Pos / % war aged 25 or less / % of war aged 30 or greater WR 45 18 TE 40 19 RB 58 8 OUCH LB 42 18 CB 43 16 S 41 19 OT 25 29 IOL 27 27 ED 33 22 DI 37 22 QB. 24 50 |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 2, 2023 15:18:44 GMT -5
No Boutte, no Douglas, no win.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Dec 2, 2023 20:07:49 GMT -5
Interesting study Aging curves by position www.pff.com/news/nfl-investigating-positional-aging-curves-with-pff-warThey use pff war as a measure of value. To evaluate aging, they ask what percentage of players total war comes at each age. Results Speed positions burn out quickly. Pos / % war aged 25 or less / % of war aged 30 or greater WR 45 18 TE 40 19 RB 58 8 OUCH LB 42 18 CB 43 16 S 41 19 OT 25 29 IOL 27 27 ED 33 22 DI 37 22 QB. 24 50So you're saying Mac will be twice as good if we just hang onto him? |
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Post by costpet on Dec 3, 2023 7:42:04 GMT -5
I think Mac is done in NE. I mean he won't be with the team next year. Bad play, bad attitude, it's everyone else's fault. If Zappe does great today, okay. But, if he sucks in the 1st half, Cunningham will finally get his chance. That's kind of what I hope for. Even though they've only won 2 games, you can't fault the defense. You can't fault the RBs. OL and QB needs to be fixed. OL can easily be fixed. QB is not so easy. But, with a high draft pick and several good choices available in the draft, that would be the key going forward. Plus, a good GM. BB is still a great coach, but he needs better players. If you recall, BB didn't want to draft Brady. It was his QB coach who was screaming to draft him. (Dick Rubien I think his name was) Anyway, get a good GM in there, pick some studs in the draft, and let BB coach them. Then we'll be good again.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Dec 3, 2023 10:00:03 GMT -5
Bill didn't want to draft Brady -- I've heard it all now.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 3, 2023 11:56:22 GMT -5
Bill didn't want to draft Brady -- I've heard it all now. To be fair, no one wanted to draft Brady. The credit Bill gets is keeping him on the roster as a 4th QB that first year. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 3, 2023 11:56:59 GMT -5
I put money on Pats money line to win. I don’t like it but it’s a good pay out and this just feels like a game they are going to win.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 3, 2023 13:15:24 GMT -5
Love the effort by Trent Brown they're. Need more of it.
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