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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Dec 31, 2023 16:03:39 GMT -5
Cardinals win. Patriots lose. Bills get their QB injured on the last play of the game. Bears win. Cowboys win. Need the Giants to win. Down by 1. Not a bad little Sunday! |
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Post by ephus on Dec 31, 2023 16:08:11 GMT -5
All of your 2nd overall pick are ours.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 31, 2023 16:17:57 GMT -5
Have you ever even tried to kick 40 plus yard FG? Yeah he's bad by NFL standards, but those are crazy high standards. Most good College kickers suck and fail in NFL. Yeah, I play soccer and I have made a 45 with bare feet before. I also just really hate Chad ryland. I don’t see how it is at all worth it to waste a third rounder on a kicker and wait for him to develop when we can trade a fourth rounder for a great nfl kicker any day of the week. 4th rounder and you should love him, we might have more wins if he was a top kicker. Overall I agree, I was against taking a kicker high because Folk was so good, but also horrible on kickoffs. So if Ryland is good next year, it will be a decent pick. |
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Post by marrcus on Dec 31, 2023 16:44:01 GMT -5
Maybe the Bills could handle a team loaded with inj's and turning the ball over through the whole first half, if they didn't mug for the cam' and their stupid fans on every good play.
Zappe made some awful mistakes while playing in front of a lousy OL and lacking the kind of weapons that might have put 20pts on the board in the 1st half. The Jets have a much tougher D to deal with and the game should be very close esp if the weather is bad and both teams should really want to lose. But, I think Bill will want the W bad so I'm still thinking one more win (5).
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rasimon
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Post by rasimon on Dec 31, 2023 16:48:51 GMT -5
Kickers drafted since 2017
YR / PICK # / TEAM / NAME / wAV (through 2022)
2017 153 CIN Jake Elliott 17
2017 224 CLE Zane Gonzalez 11
2017 233 CAR Harrison Butker 20
2018 167 MIN Dan Carlson 17
2018 229 MAI Jason Sanders 16
2019 145 TAM Matt Gay 14
2019 170 CLE Austin Seibert 4
2020 159 NWE Justin Rohrwasser 0
2020 188 BUF Tyler Bass 9
2020 248 LAR Steve Sloman 0
2021 149 CIN Evan McPherson 7
2022 124 CLE Cade York 1
2023 99 SFO Jake Moody -
2023 112 NWE Chad Ryland -
2023 207 GNB Anders Carlson -
Interestingly. during this period, the only kicker drafted higher than Ryland was Jake Moody (also in 2023)
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Dec 31, 2023 16:52:41 GMT -5
Have you ever even tried to kick 40 plus yard FG? Yeah he's bad by NFL standards, but those are crazy high standards. Most good College kickers suck and fail in NFL. Yeah, I play soccer and I have made a 45 with bare feet before. I also just really hate Chad ryland. I don’t see how it is at all worth it to waste a third rounder on a kicker and wait for him to develop when we can trade a fourth rounder for a great nfl kicker any day of the week.1) Ryland was a 4th round draft pick; he is quite good on kick-offs, part of his job description; 2) So this trade scenario must have happened multiple times already -- maybe cite a couple of examples? |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Dec 31, 2023 17:00:02 GMT -5
Maybe the Bills could handle a team loaded with inj's and turning the ball over through the whole first half, if they didn't mug for the cam' and their stupid fans on every good play. Zappe made some awful mistakes while playing in front of a lousy OL and lacking the kind of weapons that might have put 20pts on the board in the 1st half. The Jets have a much tougher D to deal with and the game should be very close esp if the weather is bad and both teams should really want to lose. But, I think Bill will want the W bad so I'm still thinking one more win (5). I only had Zappe for one "awful mistake," the slant to Parker that got jumped (& Trent Green kind of gave him a pass on that one). I'd put the other two picks as receiver errors. I've seen no sign the players don't "want the W bad" too, have you? They look like a hungry group to me. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 31, 2023 17:36:35 GMT -5
Yeah this team definitely hasn’t quit
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Post by christianarroyossock on Dec 31, 2023 17:45:00 GMT -5
Yeah, I play soccer and I have made a 45 with bare feet before. I also just really hate Chad ryland. I don’t see how it is at all worth it to waste a third rounder on a kicker and wait for him to develop when we can trade a fourth rounder for a great nfl kicker any day of the week.1) Ryland was a 4th round draft pick; he is quite good on kick-offs, part of his job description; 2) So this trade scenario must have happened multiple times already -- maybe cite a couple of examples? yeah my bad I actually overestimated it. See Nick folk and will lutz (both good kickers) traded for seventh round picks. |
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rasimon
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Post by rasimon on Dec 31, 2023 17:49:11 GMT -5
Yeah, I play soccer and I have made a 45 with bare feet before. I also just really hate Chad ryland. I don’t see how it is at all worth it to waste a third rounder on a kicker and wait for him to develop when we can trade a fourth rounder for a great nfl kicker any day of the week.1) Ryland was a 4th round draft pick; he is quite good on kick-offs, part of his job description; 2) So this trade scenario must have happened multiple times already -- maybe cite a couple of examples? How do you rate kickoffs? In terms of % of kickoffs which are touchbacks, the Pats are 20th of 32 teams with 67% of kickoffs being touchbacks. Number 1 is Dallas 93%. Number 32 is GB at 48%. Last year the Pats were truly horrible 36% although PIT was even worse 33%. Is there a better rating method? www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/kickoff-touchback-pct |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 31, 2023 17:54:18 GMT -5
1) Ryland was a 4th round draft pick; he is quite good on kick-offs, part of his job description; 2) So this trade scenario must have happened multiple times already -- maybe cite a couple of examples? yeah my bad I actually overestimated it. See Nick folk and will lutz (both good kickers) traded for seventh round picks. 49ers took their kicker 13 picks earlier and it has worked out well for them. Just because a guy fails doesn't mean it was a bad pick. If he lived up to the hype and cemented the position for 15 years then it would have been a good pick. It's a bad pick because he has failed so far. |
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Post by christianarroyossock on Dec 31, 2023 17:58:30 GMT -5
yeah my bad I actually overestimated it. See Nick folk and will lutz (both good kickers) traded for seventh round picks. 49ers took their kicker 13 picks earlier and it has worked out well for them. Just because a guy fails doesn't mean it was a bad pick. If he lived up to the hype and cemented the position for 15 years then it would have been a good pick. It's a bad pick because he has failed so far. moody was great in college, much better than ryland in my memory without going back and checking stats. And in general I would much rather throw a seventh rounder at a team every 5 years to get a kicker who is already good as opposed to wasting a fourth rounder and then waiting through a couple years of the kicker sucking before we even see if he is good or not. I’m all for the tank but this kid blows. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 31, 2023 18:01:31 GMT -5
I honesty think Ryland is gonna be fine. He was 82%+ his last 3 years in college, a couple of those seasons in eastern Michigan weather. They’ll probably bring somebody in to compete with him next year and I could see him winning the job and having a long career. He’s got very real leg talent. Reminds me of a 2012 Mason Crosby right now
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Post by marrcus on Dec 31, 2023 18:03:38 GMT -5
Well it could be Bill's last game in Foxboro so there's that. On the other hand he could return '24. Everybody thinks they know, but I think it would be stupid to bet on either scenario.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Dec 31, 2023 18:36:51 GMT -5
1) Ryland was a 4th round draft pick; he is quite good on kick-offs, part of his job description; 2) So this trade scenario must have happened multiple times already -- maybe cite a couple of examples? How do you rate kickoffs? In terms of % of kickoffs which are touchbacks, the Pats are 20th of 32 teams with 67% of kickoffs being touchbacks. Number 1 is Dallas 93%. Number 32 is GB at 48%. Last year the Pats were truly horrible 36% although PIT was even worse 33%. Is there a better rating method? www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/kickoff-touchback-pctDome & warm weather teams figure to "rate" higher, no? Cold windy stadiums make late season touchback's far from automatic. Plus some teams sometimes try to put it in play. Bless Nick Folk's heart -- he did a nice job kicking FGs here -- but he is not a "great" kicker. He was a street FA when the Pats got him. He was moved to TENN because he could not kickoff competitively anymore. At least not in the cold weather. Remember the two kickoff returns for TDs vs. Buffalo -- think the kicker had no hand in those? |
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Post by christianarroyossock on Dec 31, 2023 18:50:38 GMT -5
How do you rate kickoffs? In terms of % of kickoffs which are touchbacks, the Pats are 20th of 32 teams with 67% of kickoffs being touchbacks. Number 1 is Dallas 93%. Number 32 is GB at 48%. Last year the Pats were truly horrible 36% although PIT was even worse 33%. Is there a better rating method? www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/kickoff-touchback-pctDome & warm weather teams figure to "rate" higher, no? Cold windy stadiums make late season touchback's far from automatic. Plus some teams sometimes try to put it in play. Bless Nick Folk's heart -- he did a nice job kicking FGs here -- but he is not a "great" kicker. He was a street FA when the Pats got him. He was moved to TENN because he could not kickoff competitively anymore. At least not in the cold weather. Remember the two kickoff returns for TDs vs. Buffalo -- think the kicker had no hand in those? wasnt Bailey taking most of our kickoffs toward the end of the folk era or am I mistaken? |
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rasimon
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Post by rasimon on Dec 31, 2023 18:56:22 GMT -5
2022 #KOs / TB%
Folk 33 / 9%
Bailey 46 / 61%
Vizcaino 6 / 0%
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Post by pedromartinez1999 on Dec 31, 2023 21:18:56 GMT -5
Why was Trent Brown a healthy scratch? Tanking? Starting Lowe and Mafi is a good way to do that. Probably to save some money when they didn't need to spend it. I agree with you just to save money, but it's not a good look for the Patriots. When you don't like to give guarantee money out on contracts and everything is incentive laden contract and do healthy scratch so he doesn't make his bonus that's not good. Trent Brown didn't pull Aaron Hernandez he just spoke out and BB doesn't like it, but it all falls on kraft in the end. When BB leaves he doesn't care what the repercussions are. |
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Post by ghostofrussgibson on Jan 1, 2024 12:32:09 GMT -5
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jan 1, 2024 13:42:36 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 1, 2024 13:48:53 GMT -5
1) Ryland was a 4th round draft pick; he is quite good on kick-offs, part of his job description; 2) So this trade scenario must have happened multiple times already -- maybe cite a couple of examples? yeah my bad I actually overestimated it. See Nick folk and will lutz (both good kickers) traded for seventh round picks. You went from great to good. Those two were traded for that because no one would have called them great kickers a year ago, heck not likely now. Lutz goes up and down, Folk doesn't have a big leg by today's standards and can't do kickoffs. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 1, 2024 13:53:19 GMT -5
Probably to save some money when they didn't need to spend it. I agree with you just to save money, but it's not a good look for the Patriots. When you don't like to give guarantee money out on contracts and everything is incentive laden contract and do healthy scratch so he doesn't make his bonus that's not good. Trent Brown didn't pull Aaron Hernandez he just spoke out and BB doesn't like it, but it all falls on kraft in the end. When BB leaves he doesn't care what the repercussions are. Reports saying that's not true, when Brown missed time and those incentives started slipping away they had trouble motivating him and other issues like the constant press statements, pissed off about Reports of him being late. Makes perfect sense, that money is nothing and Bill wants to win. Lowe sucks and your LG and backup LT is already out. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 1, 2024 15:16:08 GMT -5
I think it’s likely the Patriots will end up with the 5th pick. |
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Post by christianarroyossock on Jan 1, 2024 16:17:29 GMT -5
yeah my bad I actually overestimated it. See Nick folk and will lutz (both good kickers) traded for seventh round picks. You went from great to good. Those two were traded for that because no one would have called them great kickers a year ago, heck not likely now. Lutz goes up and down, Folk doesn't have a big leg by today's standards and can't do kickoffs. I also went from a fourth round pick to a seventh. I just chose the most recent trades for simplicity. Point is that if you can trade a seventh round for a good kicker you can easily trade a sixth for a great kicker. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jan 1, 2024 16:49:54 GMT -5
You went from great to good. Those two were traded for that because no one would have called them great kickers a year ago, heck not likely now. Lutz goes up and down, Folk doesn't have a big leg by today's standards and can't do kickoffs. I also went from a fourth round pick to a seventh. I just chose the most recent trades for simplicity. Point is that if you can trade a seventh round for a good kicker you can easily trade a sixth for a great kicker.So you have evidence of this actually happening before, or should we just take your word for it? |
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