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Verdugo Traded To Yankees
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 6, 2023 10:22:29 GMT -5
Not being flipped by NYY
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 6, 2023 10:24:27 GMT -5
Do we know why Judice was shut down after signing? Was it an injury or just an innings thing? I've been looking and haven't seen anyone mention an injury issue.
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Post by asm19 on Dec 6, 2023 10:29:57 GMT -5
Verdugo’s troubles have been documented as an ongoing thing, dating as far back as the end if 2022, if not prior. Nobody in the organization has said anything negative about him since the trade. Pretty sure there were “make up” concerns about Doogie when Chaim acquired him. I don’t dislike him, just disappointed in the gap between his potential and his production. But it seems like the Dump Cora faction has found an angle on this one… Yeah, that's the frustrating part. Leaving aside the expectations from being a piece of the Betts trade, he's showed flashes of talent on both sides of the ball - and yet he can't seem to put every piece of his game together for a whole season. I was curious how projection systems rated him before each season and how he actually did, so I took a small trip down memory lane using ZIPS from Fangraphs. Below are what his projected WAR was, and the real results: 2020: 2 WAR (Actual 1.9 WAR - in 60 games!) 2021: 1.9 WAR (Actual 1.9 WAR) 2022: 2.2 WAR (Actual 1.2 WAR - supposedly he was hurt?) 2023: 2.2 WAR (Actual 2 WAR) The computer would suggest he's largely met the expectations the projection system had for him. And yet I think after something like 2023, where you go from Verdugo being an All-star candidate through mid-summer and then blatantly checked out for the last month and a half, I'm not sure a projection system is built to evaluate something like that?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 6, 2023 11:00:37 GMT -5
I was mildly concerned about him being flipped for Soto but do we think the Yankees are cool with this kind of financial investment given the huge deals currently possessed by Stanton, Judge, and Cole? I know for a fact that the 2000 Yankees acquire him and pay him immediately- do the 2023 Yankees though? Yes I think so. They dont want to play meaningless late season games in an empty stadium any more than Red Sox ownership does. If Toronto pulls off the Ohtani upset then the Yankees have a clear path to Soto. Theyve made their intentions clear. They want two lefty outfielders. Theyll either trade for Soto or sign Bellinger. They also intend on being big players for Yamamoto. The Yanks dont spend with the frequency they used to but after down seasons on 2008 and 2013 the Yankees splurged and I anticipate them doing the same after a down 2023 season. Yup.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 6, 2023 11:05:19 GMT -5
LOL
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 6, 2023 11:05:50 GMT -5
I was mildly concerned about him being flipped for Soto but do we think the Yankees are cool with this kind of financial investment given the huge deals currently possessed by Stanton, Judge, and Cole? I know for a fact that the 2000 Yankees acquire him and pay him immediately- do the 2023 Yankees though? Even if the Yanks are cool with giving Soto a mega deal extension ASAP they can't force him to sign it. The guy turned down $440M from the Nats a couple years ago, I have no reason to believe he takes an extension now. At least that's what I'm going to tell myself anyway to feel slightly better about Soto wearing pinstripes.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,918
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Post by nomar on Dec 6, 2023 11:07:18 GMT -5
How did NESN ever employ this tool?
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Post by soxfansince67 on Dec 6, 2023 11:10:08 GMT -5
Welp - so far so good - two players I didn't want on the 2024 Red Sox - Urias and Verdugo - gone. Getting better next year was always going to be much more than rearranging the deck chairs. Anxiously awaiting to see what happens next.
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Post by semperfisox on Dec 6, 2023 11:12:23 GMT -5
How did NESN ever employ this tool? He’s been extra salty towards the Sox ever since they stopped having him in the booth.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,918
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Post by nomar on Dec 6, 2023 11:19:42 GMT -5
How did NESN ever employ this tool? He’s been extra salty towards the Sox ever since they stopped having him in the booth. He’s been salty since this
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Post by Guidas on Dec 6, 2023 12:00:37 GMT -5
Honestly, I know zero about these prospects coming from NYY, but the Verdugo situation seemed to have become untenable. He was on Cora's last nerve. I liked Verdugo, but was as frustrated by his lapses as anyone else. I hate to see guys leave so much of their talent untapped.
All that said, it sounds like he was going through some significant challenges in his personal life. I hope he addresses those and gets right.
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 6, 2023 12:11:40 GMT -5
Logenhagen updated report on Fitts:
"“Fitts spent most of his college career in the bullpen, but, as the Yankees frequently do, he was moved into the starting rotation as a pro and he has ascended through the minors with little resistance. Fitts worked a whopping 152 innings in 2023, 50 innings more than he did in 2022, and not only maintained his velocity throughout the entire season but had a little bit of a bump. He began his last start of the year pumping 93-96 mph fastballs past Double-A hitters. There is still not a third pitch here but Fitts checks every other starting pitcher scouting box. Plus-plus fastball command and a hard two-plane slider give him two whiff-getting weapons, and any worry about stamina or command leftover from his pre-draft look has evaporated. The Yankees list is going to be one of the first published and Fitts would have been a 45 FV arm ranked relatively high in that system. His 40-man timeline puts him on pace to debut in 2025. If he can develop a third viable offering in 2024, he’ll be a top 100 prospect next offseason, but he’s polished enough as a strike-thrower to debut in 2024 if the BoSox need him.”
45 FV would put him 8-13th in the Red Sox system by the FG rankings.
Calls Judice more of a "developmental flier" than a true prospect.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 6, 2023 12:19:22 GMT -5
Dude looks like Rick Cerone. No longer in the clutches of the baseball world's North Korea, he'll be striving for this look:
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 6, 2023 12:21:48 GMT -5
Logenhagen updated report on Fitts: "“Fitts spent most of his college career in the bullpen, but, as the Yankees frequently do, he was moved into the starting rotation as a pro and he has ascended through the minors with little resistance. Fitts worked a whopping 152 innings in 2023, 50 innings more than he did in 2022, and not only maintained his velocity throughout the entire season but had a little bit of a bump. He began his last start of the year pumping 93-96 mph fastballs past Double-A hitters. There is still not a third pitch here but Fitts checks every other starting pitcher scouting box. Plus-plus fastball command and a hard two-plane slider give him two whiff-getting weapons, and any worry about stamina or command leftover from his pre-draft look has evaporated. The Yankees list is going to be one of the first published and Fitts would have been a 45 FV arm ranked relatively high in that system. His 40-man timeline puts him on pace to debut in 2025. If he can develop a third viable offering in 2024, he’ll be a top 100 prospect next offseason, but he’s polished enough as a strike-thrower to debut in 2024 if the BoSox need him.” 45 FV would put him 8-13th in the Red Sox system by the FG rankings. Calls Judice more of a "developmental flier" than a true prospect. That looks promising. Also Judice seems to jive with the earlier comment of he's a ball of clay.
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Post by yuchangclan on Dec 6, 2023 12:31:05 GMT -5
I was mildly concerned about him being flipped for Soto but do we think the Yankees are cool with this kind of financial investment given the huge deals currently possessed by Stanton, Judge, and Cole? I know for a fact that the 2000 Yankees acquire him and pay him immediately- do the 2023 Yankees though? Even if the Yanks are cool with giving Soto a mega deal extension ASAP they can't force him to sign it. The guy turned down $440M from the Nats a couple years ago, I have no reason to believe he takes an extension now. At least that's what I'm going to tell myself anyway to feel slightly better about Soto wearing pinstripes. Given existing contracts to Judge, Cole and Stanton, if the Yankees were to give Soto ~$40m/year, would they EVER have a shot at being below the luxury tax threshold again? Wouldn’t this have long-term implications on draft position and international $$$? Side note: I’m terrified of the Yankees having Soto; a TRUE superstar just reaching his prime. Is it too late for a mystery team to jump in???
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Post by Smittyw on Dec 6, 2023 12:32:31 GMT -5
Everyone knows you hate the Red Sox, Mazz, no need to remind us.
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Post by asm19 on Dec 6, 2023 12:35:19 GMT -5
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 6, 2023 12:38:32 GMT -5
Even if the Yanks are cool with giving Soto a mega deal extension ASAP they can't force him to sign it. The guy turned down $440M from the Nats a couple years ago, I have no reason to believe he takes an extension now. At least that's what I'm going to tell myself anyway to feel slightly better about Soto wearing pinstripes. Given existing contracts to Judge, Cole and Stanton, if the Yankees were to give Soto ~$40m/year, would they EVER have a shot at being below the luxury tax threshold again? Wouldn’t this have long-term implications on draft position and international $$$? Side note: I’m terrified of the Yankees having Soto; a TRUE superstar just reaching his prime. Is it too late for a mystery team to jump in??? A quick look shows their projected payroll for 2025-2027 at $219.2M, 165.9M and 178.4M so theoretically they could probably get under next year if they really wanted to depending on what else they do this offseason anyway. If they go out and give 20M+ to a SP(s) for multiple years then that obviously becomes harder to do. They'll pretty much assuredly be over it this year and next if I had to guess which would put them at I think 4 years in a row at least?
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Post by melvinhoggs on Dec 6, 2023 12:42:12 GMT -5
Pretty varying reports on the prospects coming back; in Keith Law's writeup of the trade, he said: "...the Red Sox get three arms back – and none is likely to be more than a middle reliever." "...this is organizational pitching depth at best, and the main value to Boston comes from shedding Verdugo’s salary and his feeble bat against lefties."
Edit: for context, Law didn't particularly like the trade for NY, either. He thinks it was pretty "whatever" all around.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 6, 2023 12:48:03 GMT -5
Everyone knows you hate the Red Sox, Mazz, no need to remind us. Dude is dumber than a post if he's writing stuff like that, catering to fans who can't read a box score. Stanton is an empty shell at this point, worth the proverbial bag of balls. I'm constantly reminded of why I chose to ignore hacks like this.
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Post by yuchangclan on Dec 6, 2023 12:57:05 GMT -5
There are 1,000 posters on this board and not a single one would post something this stupid. That dude is straight-up trolling.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,942
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 6, 2023 13:11:53 GMT -5
(I wrote this yesterday and forgot to post it (something I do fairly often!) ... in today's Globe Peter Abraham asserts that Verdugo was "a goner" after the second benching )
Hmm .. player who was benched twice for disciplinary reasons is traded to your arch-rival ...
I've always thought that the keep-or-trade decision came down to makeup. Here's a guy who was consistently "clutch" because he regarded hitting with the game on the line as fun. And a guy who fell apart when he was denied an All-Star berth he likely deserved.
Will he put pressure on himself to maximize his next contract? That's a recipe for disaster. He could also put that thought aside, juice up his self-confidence, and asserts that Verduho was a have a huge year. I don't pretend to know which is likelier. But I certainly imagine that Breslow talked to Cora and probably some teammates about that, and about his general clubhouse presence. Even if he's personally liked (which I think is ... likely), no one likes needless drama.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 6, 2023 13:14:54 GMT -5
Dude looks like Rick Cerone. No longer in the clutches of the baseball world's North Korea, he'll be striving for this look: "Don't tread on Superman's cape"
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Post by Guidas on Dec 6, 2023 13:17:23 GMT -5
(I wrote this yesterday and forgot to post it (something I do fairly often!) ... in today's Globe Peter Abraham asserts that Verdugo was "a goner" after the second benching ) Hmm .. player who was benched twice for disciplinary reasons is traded to your arch-rival ... I've always thought that the keep-or-trade decision came down to makeup. Here's a guy who was consistently "clutch" because he regarded hitting with the game on the line as fun. And a guy who fell apart when he was denied an All-Star berth he likely deserved. Will he put pressure on himself to maximize his next contract? That's a recipe for disaster. He could also put that thought aside, juice up his self-confidence, and asserts that Verduho was a have a huge year. I don't pretend to know which is likelier. But I certainly imagine that Breslow talked to Cora and probably some teammates about that, and about his general clubhouse presence. Even if he's personally liked (which I think is ... likely), no one likes needless drama. All that aside, am I wrong to think he'll hit 20-25 HRs with that short porch?
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,918
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Post by nomar on Dec 6, 2023 13:31:16 GMT -5
(I wrote this yesterday and forgot to post it (something I do fairly often!) ... in today's Globe Peter Abraham asserts that Verdugo was "a goner" after the second benching ) Hmm .. player who was benched twice for disciplinary reasons is traded to your arch-rival ... I've always thought that the keep-or-trade decision came down to makeup. Here's a guy who was consistently "clutch" because he regarded hitting with the game on the line as fun. And a guy who fell apart when he was denied an All-Star berth he likely deserved. Will he put pressure on himself to maximize his next contract? That's a recipe for disaster. He could also put that thought aside, juice up his self-confidence, and asserts that Verduho was a have a huge year. I don't pretend to know which is likelier. But I certainly imagine that Breslow talked to Cora and probably some teammates about that, and about his general clubhouse presence. Even if he's personally liked (which I think is ... likely), no one likes needless drama. All that aside, am I wrong to think he'll hit 20-25 HRs with that short porch? Actual HR vs if he played at Yankee Stadium HR 2021: 14 vs 19 2022: 11 vs 20 2023: 13 vs 12 I’m surprised he wouldn’t have been helped this year, but overall it’s fair to expect a bump in HRs. But he’s only playing half of his games at YS, so I still think anything higher than 20 would be surprising. If the Yankees can fix his GB tendencies, that’s another story. I expect a career year for him offensively, but I don’t expect him to be a world beater because of the stadium change alone.
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