|
Post by manfred on Dec 30, 2023 16:05:59 GMT -5
This isn’t even true. A 55 hit tool grade is really good. Also you’re acting as if only scouting reports from when he was prospect qualified matter. They aren’t grading him that way any more, but a more recent scouting report is going to project him closer to his ZiPS projection than your absurd .220. He'll probably end up as a career .250 hitter like his scouting report suggests. His career batting average will be .250 if he has a .220 season. Also, we wouldn't be on this message board unless we cared about scouting reports for prospects. But one of the two scouting reports you linked to had him as a 55 hitter. So if you care about scouting reports, then you should acknowledge that at least one view is he can hit. Aren’t you ignoring that to make your point?
|
|
|
Post by wOBA Fett on Dec 30, 2023 16:06:26 GMT -5
Thank you for confirming that there aren't any more recent scouting reports showing a 60+ Hit tool. With respect to Soto/Betts, as I've said a few times now, either the scouting reports are wrong or a regression is coming. In the instance of Soto/Betts, the scouting reports were proven to be wrong. Well see on Grissom. That’s not the issue here, you just seem to not be listening to what people are saying. Scouting reports change over time. The issue is that they don’t get updated for players who jump quicker than expected. That’s exactly what happened with Grissom. He made the majors at 21 because he was so advanced with the bat. To say he is going to hit .220 because of his initial scouting report is asinine. How do you know his scouting report has changed since he jumped to the MLB? The braves could easily still have him at a 45 hit tool which would suggest why he got traded for only 1 year of a broken Chris Sale. My .220 is a regression to his .250 median. Feel free to bump this if I'm wrong.
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 30, 2023 16:07:44 GMT -5
Then why did the Braves sour on him and trade him for 1 year of Chris Sale? Either the scouting reports are wrong or a regression is coming. This isn’t even true. A 55 hit tool grade is really good. Also you’re acting as if only scouting reports from when he was prospect qualified matter. They aren’t grading him that way any more, but a more recent scouting report is going to project him closer to his ZiPS projection than your absurd .220. Grissom is a good hitter. He'll hit .280, I'm more concerned about his defense. Takes about him hitting .220 are wild. I like him better than Yorke long term, so I'd be fine with the Sox trading Yorke for a starter if needed.
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Dec 30, 2023 16:08:37 GMT -5
This isn’t even true. A 55 hit tool grade is really good. Also you’re acting as if only scouting reports from when he was prospect qualified matter. They aren’t grading him that way any more, but a more recent scouting report is going to project him closer to his ZiPS projection than your absurd .220. He'll probably end up as a career .250 hitter like his scouting report suggests. His career batting average will be .250 if he has a .220 season. Also, we wouldn't be on this message board unless we cared about scouting reports for prospects. Im not saying not to care about them. I’m saying players also get scouted after they have exhausted prospect status, and Grissom’s more recent reports would not suggest a .250 hitter.
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 30, 2023 16:10:10 GMT -5
That’s not the issue here, you just seem to not be listening to what people are saying. Scouting reports change over time. The issue is that they don’t get updated for players who jump quicker than expected. That’s exactly what happened with Grissom. He made the majors at 21 because he was so advanced with the bat. To say he is going to hit .220 because of his initial scouting report is asinine. How do you know his scouting report has changed since he jumped to the MLB? The braves could easily still have him at a 45 hit tool which would suggest why he got traded for only 1 year of a broken Chris Sale. My .220 is a regression to his .250 median. Feel free to bump this if I'm wrong. Where has Grissom ever hit .250 let alone .220? I know batting average is a throwaway stat on this site and shouldn't be counted as a metric of a good hitter but holy christ.
|
|
|
Post by levi on Dec 30, 2023 16:10:52 GMT -5
A bit more pessimistic than I expected — to those arguing about his hit tool, Ian offers a bit more insight. He also suggests some scouts think Grissom isn’t suitable for the infield and, instead, projects best in LF.
|
|
|
Post by greatscottcooper on Dec 30, 2023 16:13:48 GMT -5
He’s a .320 career milb hitter. .287 in the bigs as a 21/22 year old.
He’s always hit for average. If he grows into power….watch out
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 30, 2023 16:14:32 GMT -5
A bit more pessimistic than I expected — to those arguing about his hit tool, Ian offers a bit more insight. He also suggests some scouts think Grissom isn’t suitable for the infield and, instead, projects best in LF. I've watched him quite a bit. Bat wouldn't play up in the outfield but the reason why they're saying outfield is because he's athletic and right now is below average defensively at 2B/SS. The bat plays well in the infield, but on this site he won't get the love that he should because of his defense.
|
|
|
Post by chaimtime on Dec 30, 2023 16:14:57 GMT -5
That’s not the issue here, you just seem to not be listening to what people are saying. Scouting reports change over time. The issue is that they don’t get updated for players who jump quicker than expected. That’s exactly what happened with Grissom. He made the majors at 21 because he was so advanced with the bat. To say he is going to hit .220 because of his initial scouting report is asinine. How do you know his scouting report has changed since he jumped to the MLB? The braves could easily still have him at a 45 hit tool which would suggest why he got traded for only 1 year of a broken Chris Sale. My .220 is a regression to his .250 median. Feel free to bump this if I'm wrong. even if you end up being correct and Grissom loses all ability to hit the ball overnight, this is some of the most insane stuff I’ve seen anyone say this offseason. Saying “this guy who has hit .287 in MLB and in the mid .300s throughout his minor league career is actually a below average hitter because of the number I saw on his Fangraphs player page, and not anything actually written in his scouting report” is just so wrong on so many levels that it’s not worth discussing further.
|
|
|
Post by wOBA Fett on Dec 30, 2023 16:18:09 GMT -5
He'll probably end up as a career .250 hitter like his scouting report suggests. His career batting average will be .250 if he has a .220 season. Also, we wouldn't be on this message board unless we cared about scouting reports for prospects. But one of the two scouting reports you linked to had him as a 55 hitter. So if you care about scouting reports, then you should acknowledge that at least one view is he can hit. Aren’t you ignoring that to make your point? A 55 hit tool doesn't equate to .287 hitter either though. According to fangraphs a .290 career hitter equals 65 hit tool. blogs.fangraphs.com/scouting-explained-the-20-80-scouting-scale/If Grissom is currently a .287 career hitter but his scouting report suggests he'll be in the .250-.270 range for his career, either the scouting reports are wrong or a regression is coming. Feel free to bump next December. Will be a fun follow.
|
|
|
Post by kwodes on Dec 30, 2023 16:19:01 GMT -5
If he hits well, can we call him "Hit Puppy"? Or does Mo have to be part of his name? Not just Vaughn
|
|
|
Post by RedSoxStats on Dec 30, 2023 16:19:59 GMT -5
Here's his 2023 AAA spray chart
|
|
|
Post by buffs4444 on Dec 30, 2023 16:20:28 GMT -5
Very comfortable the kid will hit and end up playing solid d.
Now that 2B is handled, back to the rotation….
|
|
|
Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Dec 30, 2023 16:22:29 GMT -5
A bit more pessimistic than I expected — to those arguing about his hit tool, Ian offers a bit more insight. He also suggests some scouts think Grissom isn’t suitable for the infield and, instead, projects best in LF. Get him in the Driveline bat speed lab!!!
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Dec 30, 2023 16:23:51 GMT -5
Here's his 2023 AAA spray chart initial takeaways: high babip low homers at Fenway
|
|
|
Post by stevedillard on Dec 30, 2023 16:33:46 GMT -5
The description of Grissom sounds faintly like Jeter Downs. Slash hitter who was super prospect and you’re betting the team giving him up doesn’t guess right
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 30, 2023 16:36:26 GMT -5
The description of Grissom sounds faintly like Jeter Downs. Slash hitter who was super prospect and you’re betting the team giving him up doesn’t guess right Sure but Grissom has actually hit in the majors. I guess you can say he's what everyone on this site thought they were getting from Jeter Downs.
|
|
|
Post by ematz1423 on Dec 30, 2023 16:36:52 GMT -5
I dont love the trade but people saying the braves gave up on grissom aren't taking into account sale is a solid SP who is easily going to be worth the 10M the braves are paying him and also has an option for next year. In my opinion Chris sale has serious value to a team looking to make another run at the WS.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Dec 30, 2023 16:45:23 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 30, 2023 16:49:14 GMT -5
I dont love the trade but people saying the braves gave up on grissom aren't taking into account sale is a solid SP who is easily going to be worth the 10M the braves are paying him and also has an option for next year. In my opinion Chris sale has serious value to a team looking to make another run at the WS. Trade was definitely a win win. Sox aren't going to contend and can use this time to see if Vaughn is their future 2nd baseman. He has a ton of potential, however really needs to work on his defense.
|
|
|
Post by kingofthetrill on Dec 30, 2023 16:51:21 GMT -5
I don't love the trade, but honestly I'm more upset with how much money they are throwing in than I am upset about trading Sale or that Grissom was the player that we got in return. So that at least says something.
|
|
|
Post by ephus on Dec 30, 2023 16:54:49 GMT -5
How do you know his scouting report has changed since he jumped to the MLB? The braves could easily still have him at a 45 hit tool which would suggest why he got traded for only 1 year of a broken Chris Sale. My .220 is a regression to his .250 median. Feel free to bump this if I'm wrong. even if you end up being correct and Grissom loses all ability to hit the ball overnight, this is some of the most insane stuff I’ve seen anyone say this offseason. Saying “this guy who has hit .287 in MLB and in the mid .300s throughout his minor league career is actually a below average hitter because of the number I saw on his Fangraphs player page, and not anything actually written in his scouting report” is just so wrong on so many levels that it’s not worth discussing further.
|
|
|
Post by ephus on Dec 30, 2023 16:57:27 GMT -5
“fringy power” “questionable impact on ball for RH batter” “not the best defense…
Hit 50 2b and play as good as Marty Barrett and I’ll buy his jersey.
|
|
redsox04071318champs
Veteran
Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
Posts: 15,691
Member is Online
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 30, 2023 16:59:13 GMT -5
It's funny.
When I was daydreaming about what guy I wanted for 2b, it was Vaughn Grissom. I even started a trade rumor thread hoping that Alex Verdugo plus could net Grissom.
I think Grissom can be a top of the order .300 hitter who can get on base and flash some speed. Hopefully he can play decently enough defensively because I think he is a great long term solution atop the order and at 2b.
He makes both Valdez and Yorke immediately expendable in a deal.
I just didnt think Chris Sale would be the guy they'd have to trade to get him.
I am sad to see Chris Sale go. Always liked him and will always fondly remember him striking out Machado to seal the deal in 2018.
And I still think he was the only guy on the staff capable of being a true ace, although you might only get 50 innings of that from him where he was healthy and locked in like that.
That said I wouldnt be surprised if the Braves figured a way to keep him healthy for 150 innings and got a great year from him.
Still I like the deal from the Red Sox' side as I've always liked Grissom who is only 22.
It makes sense for the Braves because Grisspm is blocked and they turn a promising spare part into a potential top notch starter. Good trade for them given their situation.
Now the Sox have nobody that really projects as somebody who could pitch like an ace in the whole organization.
This has to mean a higher caliber pitcher has to be on the way whether it's a free agent or via trade as I expect Teoscar any day now, an outfielder, a 2b, and a pitcher to be available in a deal that I hope doesnt include any of the big 3.
Finally it's getting interesting and I suspect for the first time since Pedroia the Sox have a solid long term core player at 2b.
|
|
|
Post by dirtywaterinla on Dec 30, 2023 17:02:31 GMT -5
I understand the emotional connection folks have to Sale, but expecting him to give you ~20 start, ~110 ERA+ season is completely out of the realm of reality. This is a pitcher who has only started 31 games in the last *4* years. We’ve played this gamble that we see a full quality season from him for far too long.
That said, I’m thrilled with this return. Vaughn has a lot of potential even considering some misgivings about defense and I don’t see him going anywhere in a trade this off-season.
Also, I think folks are tremendously overvaluing Yorke. If Breslow pulls off a trade for a frontline SP, it’s Mayer who’s headlining any package with Yorke being the 3rd or 4th piece.
|
|