SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
It is time to trade Rafael Devers?
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,083
|
Post by cdj on Feb 21, 2024 9:04:48 GMT -5
Sure there is definite upside to this team, but they would need so many things to go right to contend in this division. And instead of hoping that 10 things go as well as possible it would have been a lot easier to….you know…bring in established talent who played well last season. So I do not blame Devers for sharing his thoughts. Does that mean he is blameless? No, he could play better and he’s admitted as much (which is also hilarious because certain ppl are spewing BS about how he has never been accountable). Like literally there’s a video of him talking to Tom Caron yesterday saying that last year wasn’t his best and that he was inconsistent, and that he thinks he’s made strides this offseason. Hilarious that the video was probably released as these ppl hit “enter” on their silly little posts
|
|
|
Post by crossedsabres8 on Feb 21, 2024 9:15:28 GMT -5
Cue Donald Glover walking in with a pizza.
In general I think it's probably not a good idea to rock the boat like Jansen and Devers have done, especially with all the young players on the team and the fact that they still have a chance to be a good team this year even without any other additions. But I also understand both of their frustrations and I can't really blame them.
For me this really comes down to Cora. This team should not be terrible unless they suffer an onslaught of injuries, like, worse than the last two years. If they suck because of a bad clubhouse vibe I'm really going to lose faith in Cora as a manager because in my mind his main job is to keep that together.
|
|
|
Post by puzzler on Feb 21, 2024 9:47:36 GMT -5
Cue Donald Glover walking in with a pizza. In general I think it's probably not a good idea to rock the boat like Jansen and Devers have done, especially with all the young players on the team and the fact that they still have a chance to be a good team this year even without any other additions. But I also understand both of their frustrations and I can't really blame them. For me this really comes down to Cora. This team should not be terrible unless they suffer an onslaught of injuries, like, worse than the last two years. If they suck because of a bad clubhouse vibe I'm really going to lose faith in Cora as a manager because in my mind his main job is to keep that together. Cora two days ago had a message for the team. Remember who you are; remember your identity. It was a basically a rallying speech for the team that says; forget about free agency, forget about player development, forget about last place finishes, forget about the outside noise; be you. As a team, remember, you're still the Boston Red Sox. You can sit there and you can say you think that's all a bunch of hooey and is worthless. I won't argue one way or the other. But if I'm the manager of a team and I give that speech and then my star player goes out the next day and says "Everyone knows what we need" speaking about signing pitching, then as a manager, I'd be pretty dang discouraged. And maybe that's why he doesn't want to be a manager long term.
|
|
|
Post by iamnotluistiant on Feb 21, 2024 10:02:54 GMT -5
This year's Sox are going to be the real test of Cora's managerial ability. Is he the playoff caliber manager that his fans think he is or just merely an ok manager whose teams have finished in last place three out of the last 4 years and seem destined to be there again? To be fair much of the blame rests with the front office but will this year's team play hard and compete or just through the motions? It is relatively easy to see a scenario where by the beginning of May when the injury bug hits, 'arm soreness' rears its ugly head, and 3 lineup regulars are hitting .150 or less, and the team is already 10 games or more under .500 that the team quits on Cora and ultimately he winds up getting canned before the end of the season. I would be put the over/under of that scenario at 50%.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Feb 21, 2024 10:09:29 GMT -5
This year's Sox are going to be the real test of Cora's managerial ability. Is he the playoff caliber manager that his fans think he is or just merely an ok manager whose teams have finished in last place three out of the last 4 years and seem destined to be there again? To be fair much of the blame rests with the front office but will this year's team play hard and compete or just through the motions? It is relatively easy to see a scenario where by the beginning of May when the injury bug hits, 'arm soreness' rears its ugly head, and 3 lineup regulars are hitting .150 or less, and the team is already 10 games or more under .500 that the team quits on Cora and ultimately he winds up getting canned before the end of the season. I would be put the over/under of that scenario at 50%.I will say there is less than a 50% chance that the team is playing at a 60-win pace and giving up on the season by early May.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Feb 21, 2024 10:55:23 GMT -5
This has been a long off-season.
|
|
|
Post by iamnotluistiant on Feb 21, 2024 11:24:49 GMT -5
April is going to matter more to this Red Sox team more than any other in recent years. A good to decent start will get the ball rolling where the team can be playing hard/competitive till at least the middle of the summer. Otherwise, the discussion on here will be about who is going to move at the trade deadline starting May 15th.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 21, 2024 12:08:53 GMT -5
Cue Donald Glover walking in with a pizza. In general I think it's probably not a good idea to rock the boat like Jansen and Devers have done, especially with all the young players on the team and the fact that they still have a chance to be a good team this year even without any other additions. But I also understand both of their frustrations and I can't really blame them. For me this really comes down to Cora. This team should not be terrible unless they suffer an onslaught of injuries, like, worse than the last two years. If they suck because of a bad clubhouse vibe I'm really going to lose faith in Cora as a manager because in my mind his main job is to keep that together. Cora two days ago had a message for the team. Remember who you are; remember your identity. It was a basically a rallying speech for the team that says; forget about free agency, forget about player development, forget about last place finishes, forget about the outside noise; be you. As a team, remember, you're still the Boston Red Sox. You can sit there and you can say you think that's all a bunch of hooey and is worthless. I won't argue one way or the other. But if I'm the manager of a team and I give that speech and then my star player goes out the next day and says "Everyone knows what we need" speaking about signing pitching, then as a manager, I'd be pretty dang discouraged. And maybe that's why he doesn't want to be a manager long term. It's probably because he has to make a speech like that, that he doesn't want to be a Red Sox manager long term. You'll know that probably by where he lands. The rumors are the Dodgers and Yankees. If ultimately true those teams have higher payrolls, then you'll have your answer. I'm sure Verdugo frustrated the hell out of Cora last year and I'd guess the disconnect between him and Bloom contributed and my guess is he'd have preferred deeper rosters that ownership has not really allowed him to have. I'd surmise those bug him a lot more than Devers rendering his opinion, one that is shared by many, many people.
|
|
asm18
Veteran
Posts: 788
Member is Online
|
Post by asm18 on Feb 21, 2024 12:30:16 GMT -5
I want someone in Fort Myers to show Craig this thread and ask him if he thinks it’s time to trade Devers, just to see how he would react
|
|
|
Post by wcsoxfan on Feb 21, 2024 13:33:39 GMT -5
It was Sportrac, but I cross referenced it with another site, which was probably just referencing Sportrac. That's interesting about the outstanding arbitration, but do the other teams in front not have arb guys in waiting that haven't been calculated either? Sure, the Red Sox can still add free agents, but the big rumor has been the Red Sox are shopping Jansen and Martin and that the Red Sox do not want to pay a dime on Jansen's contract. That would certainly lower the payroll again. But that's good information to know. It's slightly better, but as you mentioned, 10th with their resources is still not what you'd expect. Yeah, not taking away from your point at all. But I'm still optimistic that the Red Sox will spend the money, either on a couple of free agents or on extending their young players. Henry has always been willing to spend up-to the CBT and I haven't seen anything to show that has changed. The talk of payroll (not budget) likely being lower I think is more of a result of the Red Sox striking out in acquiring their main targets. The issue is less about the arb guys and more a combination of the pre-arb and non-roster players. As an example, the Cubs were listed at 4mil over the Red Sox (by Spotrac) in payroll (this is now 2mil as they added Hendricks) but the Red Sox actual payroll cash expenditures when I checked were more than 30mil more than the Cubs - that's a pretty extreme turn. Very few teams (if any) have half of their projected 26-man roster on pre-arb deals and willing to spend tens-of-millions to facilitate trades (like with Sale). These factors indicate a rebuilding team with financial means exploring ways to use their finances in means other than signing aging free agents. Given that Jansen seems disgruntled, and that RHRP is an area of depth for the Red Sox, trading 36yo Jansen seems like a smart move to me (depending on what they receive and how much of his contract they cover, of course). The Red Sox didn't get the free agents I wanted (in hindsight they never had a chance) but with free agency less than 80% over and the extension talks with Casas and Bello, I don't see any firm evidence that the budget constraints are any different than they have been over the past 2 decades. There's just a lot of frustration among the fans (and players) regarding the slow off-season coming off of 2 aggravating seasons. If nothing changes by the time the season starts, I'll join the 'angry at ownership' crowd, but there's still 6 weeks to go. (and I never thought John Henry cared at all about the Red Sox aside from being an investment platform, so that opinion won't be changing) Here is where Spotrac is sourcing their Red Sox data: legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al-east/boston-red-sox/
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 21, 2024 15:12:38 GMT -5
It was Sportrac, but I cross referenced it with another site, which was probably just referencing Sportrac. That's interesting about the outstanding arbitration, but do the other teams in front not have arb guys in waiting that haven't been calculated either? Sure, the Red Sox can still add free agents, but the big rumor has been the Red Sox are shopping Jansen and Martin and that the Red Sox do not want to pay a dime on Jansen's contract. That would certainly lower the payroll again. But that's good information to know. It's slightly better, but as you mentioned, 10th with their resources is still not what you'd expect. Yeah, not taking away from your point at all. But I'm still optimistic that the Red Sox will spend the money, either on a couple of free agents or on extending their young players. Henry has always been willing to spend up-to the CBT and I haven't seen anything to show that has changed. The talk of payroll (not budget) likely being lower I think is more of a result of the Red Sox striking out in acquiring their main targets. The issue is less about the arb guys and more a combination of the pre-arb and non-roster players. As an example, the Cubs were listed at 4mil over the Red Sox (by Spotrac) in payroll (this is now 2mil as they added Hendricks) but the Red Sox actual payroll cash expenditures when I checked were more than 30mil more than the Cubs - that's a pretty extreme turn. Very few teams (if any) have half of their projected 26-man roster on pre-arb deals and willing to spend tens-of-millions to facilitate trades (like with Sale). These factors indicate a rebuilding team with financial means exploring ways to use their finances in means other than signing aging free agents. Given that Jansen seems disgruntled, and that RHRP is an area of depth for the Red Sox, trading 36yo Jansen seems like a smart move to me (depending on what they receive and how much of his contract they cover, of course). The Red Sox didn't get the free agents I wanted (in hindsight they never had a chance) but with free agency less than 80% over and the extension talks with Casas and Bello, I don't see any firm evidence that the budget constraints are any different than they have been over the past 2 decades. There's just a lot of frustration among the fans (and players) regarding the slow off-season coming off of 2 aggravating seasons. If nothing changes by the time the season starts, I'll join the 'angry at ownership' crowd, but there's still 6 weeks to go. (and I never thought John Henry cared at all about the Red Sox aside from being an investment platform, so that opinion won't be changing) Here is where Spotrac is sourcing their Red Sox data: legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al-east/boston-red-sox/I'll have to read this more throughly later, but on the extension front it doesn't seem like much progress has been made with Casas. I get there's a negotiation, but I guess he turned it down and said it wasn't tough. www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2024/02/18/triston-casas-enticing-red-sox-extension-offer-quotes/Really not what you're hoping to hear. I would be happy with, "we're close on some things, but still need to bridge the gap" or, "that was a tough offer to say no to, but I'm betting on myself". Something that says something other than, "they're really low balling me". I'm happy with trading Jansen because I've given up on 2024. They may have depth, but his departure weakens the club. Bringing it back to Devers, he was also very annoyed about the trade deadline. I think the person I was responding to forgets that. He was saying the team needed help and they traded for no one. I'm sure it was in their minds as much as the fans about the luxury tax reset. It's annoying, but people get it. Now that excuse is gone so the rage is just rising.
|
|
|
Post by patford on Feb 21, 2024 22:10:30 GMT -5
...the rage is just rising. "Rage"? It's entertainment. Maybe, "momentary annoyance."
|
|
|
Post by bosoxnation on Feb 22, 2024 6:36:35 GMT -5
My biggest question is why sign Giolito and why not trade Martin and Kenley. Those dont add up to me. Maybe the Giolito is hey we need eachother type deal but better off letting these kids get the reps if you're not going to add more talent.You made 3 trades to get younger and got 1 ML player for Sale Verdugo Schreiber. Trading Devers would be insane but for this offseasons push the other moves don't add up for me.
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 22, 2024 8:08:42 GMT -5
Cora two days ago had a message for the team. Remember who you are; remember your identity. It was a basically a rallying speech for the team that says; forget about free agency, forget about player development, forget about last place finishes, forget about the outside noise; be you. As a team, remember, you're still the Boston Red Sox. You can sit there and you can say you think that's all a bunch of hooey and is worthless. I won't argue one way or the other. But if I'm the manager of a team and I give that speech and then my star player goes out the next day and says "Everyone knows what we need" speaking about signing pitching, then as a manager, I'd be pretty dang discouraged. And maybe that's why he doesn't want to be a manager long term. It's probably because he has to make a speech like that, that he doesn't want to be a Red Sox manager long term. You'll know that probably by where he lands. The rumors are the Dodgers and Yankees. If ultimately true those teams have higher payrolls, then you'll have your answer. I'm sure Verdugo frustrated the hell out of Cora last year and I'd guess the disconnect between him and Bloom contributed and my guess is he'd have preferred deeper rosters that ownership has not really allowed him to have. I'd surmise those bug him a lot more than Devers rendering his opinion, one that is shared by many, many people. I mean we sit on here and complain about not having team leaders, yet Devers, the highest paid player, acts as a leader by taking the hit for calling out ownership, which people don't like because its a bad look for acting critical. Which is it? Devers is still the most valuable player on this team and unless you think he's going to become a raging malcontent, you don't trade him. I'm sure its not him and Jansen that feel this way. Devers should have a better year, simply by having Casas for another full year of development, allowing protection in the lineup. So that's a huge positive.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 22, 2024 8:24:45 GMT -5
...the rage is just rising. "Rage"? It's entertainment. Maybe, "momentary annoyance." I meant more as a collective vibe from the fanbase and players, not from my own perspective.
|
|
|
Post by bmoneyproblemz on Feb 22, 2024 9:14:57 GMT -5
I just can't believe this page exists.
|
|
|