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4/15-4/18 Red Sox vs. Guardians Series Thread
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Post by greenmonster on Apr 17, 2024 22:04:18 GMT -5
Uggh..The one game I wasn't able to watch ends up being their best of the season.
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Post by scottysmalls on Apr 17, 2024 22:40:33 GMT -5
Interesting dichotomy developing with the Red Sox baserunning. They are 5th best in baseball at generating extra runs by taking extra bases on batted balls so far, but 2nd worst in terms of losing runs due to stolen base/caught stealing/pick off outcomes. After today Wilyer Abreu is the team's most valuable baserunner on the season.
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Post by dirtdog on Apr 17, 2024 22:40:52 GMT -5
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Post by incandenza on Apr 17, 2024 22:50:46 GMT -5
Houck lowered his ERA to 1.35. That makes him third best in the Sox' rotation after Crawford and Pivetta. Whitlock (1.96) gets bumped down to fourth.
Imagine if this were an organization that ever developed pitching...
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Apr 17, 2024 22:54:42 GMT -5
Wong leading MLB catchers in wRC+ with his OBP lower than his BA. Catchers baby! |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 17, 2024 22:55:16 GMT -5
What I said in the Rafaela extension thread extensions I want to see. (And I forgot about Duran)
1. Houck (Ace potential slider).
2. Crawford. (Always been solid, more very good games than bad, adjusts well).
3. Wong. (Underrated and it take two catchers).
4. Abreu. (Solid two way player with a Dewey like arm and great pitch selection. Enough range to play anywhere in the outfield).
5. Winckowski. (Seems like a good candidate for a Whitlock style extension).
6. Maybe Grissom, time will tell but we should know this year.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Apr 17, 2024 22:57:39 GMT -5
Houck lowered his ERA to 1.35. That makes him third best in the Sox' rotation after Crawford and Pivetta. Whitlock (1.96) gets bumped down to fourth. Imagine if this were an organization that ever developed pitching... The real question is what had they been doing wrong. Bannister and Bloom were really smart guys so as much as I’d like to hype our new pitching gurus, I’m genuinely curious as to what went wrong or what the hump was that they couldn’t get over. Hitting is so much simpler and therefore easier for me to wrap my little head around. Maybe there’s no real answer and if there is, we probably want it kept a secret so the Sox can exploit it. But damn I’m curious |
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Post by incandenza on Apr 17, 2024 23:03:26 GMT -5
Houck lowered his ERA to 1.35. That makes him third best in the Sox' rotation after Crawford and Pivetta. Whitlock (1.96) gets bumped down to fourth. Imagine if this were an organization that ever developed pitching... The real question is what had they been doing wrong. Bannister and Bloom were really smart guys so as much as I’d like to hype our new pitching gurus, I’m genuinely curious as to what went wrong or what the jump was that we couldn’t get over. Hitting is so much simpler and therefore easier for me to wrap my little head around. I don't think they'd been doing anything wrong! Crawford and Pivetta took big steps forward last season. Houck and Whitlock have had injury/stamina problems but they both had track records of being good. Bello developed on the last guys' watch. Maybe Breslow and Bailey were able to ratchet these guys up another level, but the trend precedes them. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 17, 2024 23:06:23 GMT -5
The real question is what had they been doing wrong. Bannister and Bloom were really smart guys so as much as I’d like to hype our new pitching gurus, I’m genuinely curious as to what went wrong or what the jump was that we couldn’t get over. Hitting is so much simpler and therefore easier for me to wrap my little head around. I don't think they'd been doing anything wrong! Crawford and Pivetta took big steps forward last season. Houck and Whitlock have had injury/stamina problems but they both had track records of being good. Bello developed on the last guys' watch. Maybe Breslow and Bailey were able to ratchet these guys up another level, but the trend precedes them. Experience... |
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Post by keninten on Apr 17, 2024 23:08:49 GMT -5
No errors!!! on defense.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Apr 18, 2024 0:34:36 GMT -5
The real question is what had they been doing wrong. Bannister and Bloom were really smart guys so as much as I’d like to hype our new pitching gurus, I’m genuinely curious as to what went wrong or what the jump was that we couldn’t get over. Hitting is so much simpler and therefore easier for me to wrap my little head around. I don't think they'd been doing anything wrong! Crawford and Pivetta took big steps forward last season. Houck and Whitlock have had injury/stamina problems but they both had track records of being good. Bello developed on the last guys' watch. Maybe Breslow and Bailey were able to ratchet these guys up another level, but the trend precedes them. Yeah I agree with this in theory but if “stamina” was such a simple thing to solve for, there would be a lot more really good SPs across the league. So far Houck and Whitlock have looked way better. This is all still fun with small samples anyway, but it’s hard not to turn your head at it. Then again, experience only helps and they would have had more of that regardless of who was in charge, and I’m definitely of the opinion that Bloom got the short end of the stick. |
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Apr 18, 2024 3:11:03 GMT -5
34 percent usage of the splitter for Houck. Completely different pitcher with a effective third pitch now. He had it last year; that's how he became the 2nd best starting pitcher in MLB up to his injury, but just through the third inning. (After that he was 25th worst, out of 150).
The main difference: two winters ago he was unable to work out after having had surgery. Last winters he worked his butt off to increase his stamina, with a boost in velo as a bonus. The "times around the order" effect is, on the whole, entirely about stamina rather that pitch variety. (Think Justin Verlander, who in his 2022 CY year threw his #4 pitch, his change, twice a game.)
The new regime gave all of the starters individual workout plans, and everyone has had their pitch usage tweaked. The latter is the secondary change from last year
Houck and Crawford are serious CY candidates.
(Yes, I'll continue to point this out as long as its necessary! No shame to get it wrong, as that's what everyone has been taught.)
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Apr 18, 2024 4:07:16 GMT -5
I don't think they'd been doing anything wrong! Crawford and Pivetta took big steps forward last season. Houck and Whitlock have had injury/stamina problems but they both had track records of being good. Bello developed on the last guys' watch. Maybe Breslow and Bailey were able to ratchet these guys up another level, but the trend precedes them. . So far Houck and Whitlock have looked way better. This is all still fun with small samples anyway, but it’s hard not to turn your head at it. Then again, experience only helps and they would have had more of that regardless of who was in charge, and I’m definitely of the opinion that Bloom got the short end of the stick. I have heard multiple players sat that they had no idea how much work was necessary to be in shape to go deep in games. It seems to require an obsession to be as good as you can be.
Does this sequence of ERA's ring a bell?
(3.38) 5.01 3.27 4.03 3.86 5.78 2.89 (5.23)
That's Josh Beckett, with the first entry the year before we traded for hom, and the last his ERA when we dealt him to the Dodgers.
That sure looks like he's rewarding himself for each good season by taking it easy that winter, right? And in fact there is no difference among those seasons unilll you hit pitch 50. All the difference comes afterward.
By all accounts all of the 5 starters have this obsession to various degrees. It was very obvious in Pivetta and Houck's "My Story" entries, and Crawford went fron up-and-down guy to CY possibility by sheer hard work.
I do think the previous administration left it up to the players, while the new regime is (consciously or by nature) installing or reinforcing an attitude.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Apr 18, 2024 6:52:48 GMT -5
This team, which had money to burn, nonetheless went into the season with almost no depth at all to hedge against injuries. As of April 17th, Giolito and Story are out for the season, Grissom has yet to debut, and Pivetta's missed two weeks. Devers has already missed six games, and it sounds like he's set to add to that. It's tough to overcome the combination of bad luck *and* bad contingency planning. They've worked around the pitching injuries so far (sort of; if Giolito had been healthy, Houck could've been helpful in the bullpen in a game like yesterday's). But the replacements for Grissom, Story, and Devers have already compiled -1.2 WAR in 18 games. Cherry picking I know and a little tongue in cheek but who needs a bullpen when Houck is starting! I do get your sentiments and overall agree in terms of depth though. |
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Post by incandenza on Apr 18, 2024 7:36:59 GMT -5
This team, which had money to burn, nonetheless went into the season with almost no depth at all to hedge against injuries. As of April 17th, Giolito and Story are out for the season, Grissom has yet to debut, and Pivetta's missed two weeks. Devers has already missed six games, and it sounds like he's set to add to that. It's tough to overcome the combination of bad luck *and* bad contingency planning. They've worked around the pitching injuries so far (sort of; if Giolito had been healthy, Houck could've been helpful in the bullpen in a game like yesterday's). But the replacements for Grissom, Story, and Devers have already compiled -1.2 WAR in 18 games. Cherry picking I know and a little tongue in cheek but who needs a bullpen when Houck is starting! I do get your sentiments and overall agree in terms of depth though. Ha, what sort of a dingdong would take a Cy Young candidate and stick him in the bullpen!
In all seriousness, though, it's not so much that I wanted Houck in the bullpen as I wanted him as a sixth starter who could go to the bullpen when all the other starters were healthy (which would probably be rare). Though also to be fair, by that logic he wouldn't have been able to work in the bullpen two nights ago because with Pivetta down he'd now be in the rotation anyway.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Apr 18, 2024 8:16:14 GMT -5
Cherry picking I know and a little tongue in cheek but who needs a bullpen when Houck is starting! I do get your sentiments and overall agree in terms of depth though. Ha, what sort of a dingdong would take a Cy Young candidate and stick him in the bullpen!
In all seriousness, though, it's not so much that I wanted Houck in the bullpen as I wanted him as a sixth starter who could go to the bullpen when all the other starters were healthy (which would probably be rare). Though also to be fair, by that logic he wouldn't have been able to work in the bullpen two nights ago because with Pivetta down he'd now be in the rotation anyway.
I was of this same thought, not necessarily in regards to Houck. It could have been any of Houck, Crawford or Whitlock and it appears to me the Sox were also of this thought since in an ideal world Giolito's elbow would stay intact and by default with everyone healthy someone would have had to go to the pen unless they wanted to run a 6 man rotation anyway. That being said, at this point I would have to say Breslow and Co. are looking pretty good just saying to hell with it after the Giolito news and not going and getting a veteran 4th starter type since all the SPs have looked solid so far. Obviously now with Pivetta on the IL and Whitlock joining him that strategy will be tested and we'll see how smart it was to go with Criswell and I guess Uwasewa as their depth SPs. I'm not terribly concerned Whitlock's injury will be long term, it sounded like they are just being cautious and rightfully so with him. Pivetta I am starting to worry about since when it first happened they said it was mild and he shouldn't be out much longer than the original IL stint. He's been playing catch but it doesn't sound like he's been able to ramp it up at all yet and his IL stint would be slated to end on the 21st if he is ready to go which it doesn't seem to me he will be. It's pretty common with elbow flexor strains that the original timeline is a quick comeback and then they try and ramp it up and boom all of a sudden it's time for TJ so I'm still very concerned with Pivetta. |
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Apr 18, 2024 8:38:24 GMT -5
Pivetta I am starting to worry about since when it first happened they said it was mild and he shouldn't be out much longer than the original IL stint. He's been playing catch but it doesn't sound like he's been able to ramp it up at all yet and his IL stint would be slated to end on the 21st if he is ready to go which it doesn't seem to me he will be. It's pretty common with elbow flexor strains that the original timeline is a quick comeback and then they try and ramp it up and boom all of a sudden it's time for TJ so I'm still very concerned with Pivetta. Apparently he will be doing a bullpen "soon" but yes - his elbow is going to be a kite dancing in a hurricane when he comes back. |
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Post by briam on Apr 18, 2024 8:41:14 GMT -5
I still can’t believe Tanner Houck threw a 9K Maddux last night.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Apr 18, 2024 8:44:10 GMT -5
Duran LF, Casas 1B, Abreu RF, Valdez 2B, Wong DH, Hamilton SS, Reyes 3B, McGuire C, Rafaela CF
Bullpen game vs 37 year old Carlos Carrasco at 1:30 pm on a Thursday - time to get weird I guess
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Post by dirtdog on Apr 18, 2024 8:55:07 GMT -5
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Post by scottysmalls on Apr 18, 2024 8:59:17 GMT -5
Duran LF, Casas 1B, Abreu RF, Valdez 2B, Wong DH, Hamilton SS, Reyes 3B, McGuire C, Rafaela CF Bullpen game vs 37 year old Carlos Carrasco at 1:30 pm on a Thursday - time to get weird I guess That 3-9 man lol. Plus side - positive regression has to be coming for Reyes, Valdez and Rafaela at some point. Interesting giving Yoshida back to back days off with no Devers or O'Neill in today's lineup, wonder if he's been dealing with an injury too. Add: Probably just trying to get him right and maybe a little bit of riding Wong's hot streak (though tbh this stretch looks like mostly luck to me). |
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Post by 0ap0 on Apr 18, 2024 8:59:48 GMT -5
I still can’t believe Tanner Houck threw a 9K Maddux last night. I'm just fondly remembering that the Globe used to run a contest for predicting Pedro's strikeout number before each game. I mentioned it to a coworker one day with a comment like "I'm betting he strikes out 10 tonight!" and he responded by pointing out that I was predicting him to have a below-average performance. |
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Post by incandenza on Apr 18, 2024 9:18:26 GMT -5
Duran LF, Casas 1B, Abreu RF, Valdez 2B, Wong DH, Hamilton SS, Reyes 3B, McGuire C, Rafaela CF Bullpen game vs 37 year old Carlos Carrasco at 1:30 pm on a Thursday - time to get weird I guess That 3-9 man lol. Plus side - positive regression has to be coming for Reyes, Valdez and Rafaela at some point. Interesting giving Yoshida back to back days off with no Devers or O'Neill in today's lineup, wonder if he's been dealing with an injury too. Add: Probably just trying to get him right and maybe a little bit of riding Wong's hot streak (though tbh this stretch looks like mostly luck to me). Is the combined salary of this entire lineup under $10 million? |
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Post by badballhitter on Apr 18, 2024 9:19:20 GMT -5
34 percent usage of the splitter for Houck. Completely different pitcher with a effective third pitch now. He had it last year; that's how he became the 2nd best starting pitcher in MLB up to his injury, but just through the third inning. (After that he was 25th worst, out of 150).
The main difference: two winters ago he was unable to work out after having had surgery. Last winters he worked his butt off to increase his stamina, with a boost in velo as a bonus. The "times around the order" effect is, on the whole, entirely about stamina rather that pitch variety. (Think Justin Verlander, who in his 2022 CY year threw his #4 pitch, his change, twice a game.)
The new regime gave all of the starters individual workout plans, and everyone has had their pitch usage tweaked. The latter is the secondary change from last year
Houck and Crawford are serious CY candidates.
(Yes, I'll continue to point this out as long as its necessary! No shame to get it wrong, as that's what everyone has been taught.)
I am 100% on board the Houck bandwagon. Not sure I ever fully left (I've like him since he was drafted) but heading into spring training I was somewhat resigned to him being long relief. Crawford is impressive too. 16th round pick who has just worked and grinded his way into a legit starter is quite a story. In general, this staff could be a lot of fun to watch this year. I'm a sucker for starting pitching, love games like last night and hoping to see a lot more of them. |
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Post by julyanmorley on Apr 18, 2024 9:22:30 GMT -5
The Red Sox are still favored even after that lineup was posted. Carlos Carrasco is really bad now.
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