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Who is sent to AAA when Grissom and Cooper are actived
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Apr 29, 2024 11:13:32 GMT -5
Wasn't that really the last time Arroyo produced? I think after that injury he performed worse and got hurt again. If Dalbec stays, for better or worse at the plate, then no one should have to play out of position at 1B. That is my best case scenario. Hamilton as the middle infield back up makes most sense with Reyes gone. Hamilton's base stealing/ running also makes him a useful bench player. Valdez is only an option for 2B. With every day players now at all 4 infield positions, Dalbec and Hamilton should be traditional back up only players at this point. Are they as a good a player as you'd like in those roles ? No, better options should be sought out. Are they the 2 options that make the most sense today ? I think so. I’m really against the idea of having Hamilton on the bench as essentially a pinch runner at this point in the season. He’s essentially useless outside of the running game and the team already has decent speed. His roster spot should be utilized by someone who can actually give you some MIF dependability/versatility.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Apr 29, 2024 11:13:58 GMT -5
If they do call Sogard up in Reyes’ spot I would much much rather keep Hamilton on the roster than Dalbec Cooper is taking Pablo’s spot.
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Post by scottysmalls on Apr 29, 2024 11:17:43 GMT -5
If they do call Sogard up in Reyes’ spot I would much much rather keep Hamilton on the roster than Dalbec Cooper is taking Pablo’s spot. I understand that, I was reacting to the hypothetical that Sogard gets called up. If he gets added, and Grissom gets added, two more players have to move. My preference is that Valdez and Dalbec are those two players and Hamilton stays in MLB.
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Post by puzzler on Apr 29, 2024 11:17:56 GMT -5
Kind of like you treating Reyes as self-evidently better at the plate after 20 plus games. But to your point on positional flexibility - Reyes has about 269 innings at SS and 289 innings at 2B. His record at SS isn't all that terrible - though it is not good so far this year in just 13.2 innings with -2 DRS. But he's actually been even worse at 2B with -6 DRS over those 289 innings. And he has 4 errors at 3B just this season in just 78 innings. I don't see a guy with greater positional flexibility - I see a guy who isn't good defensively and who doesn't hit, doesn't run all that well, can't bunt and really just doesn't belong in the major leagues. I'm not treating it as self-evident - I'm providing evidence! Namely, that Reyes has been better at the plate, not just in 20 games but since the start of 2023 (85 games for Reyes, 41 games for Dalbec).
But I guess what this comes down to is that I just think Dalbec is so bad at the plate that any of the other comparisons don't matter; he just can't play anymore, and I have no real faith in a recovery. He had the worst K rate in the majors last year. He has the worst K rate in the majors this year. He's actually *outperforming* his xwOBA, which is .149 (a full 105 points worse than Reyes). There is, in my view, a large gap in the offensive performance between Dalbec and Reyes, both to date since the start of last season and in what I'd expect going forward.
And now that both players would be relegated to almost permanent defensive substitution status we're going to treat Reyes' poor defense with a shrug.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Apr 29, 2024 11:19:25 GMT -5
Cooper is taking Pablo’s spot. I understand that, I was reacting to the hypothetical that Sogard gets called up. If he gets added, and Grissom gets added, two more players have to move. My preference is that Valdez and Dalbec are those two players and Hamilton stays in MLB. Got it. Apparently there’s a 40 man spot open, so my hope is that Sogard takes that spot and Hamilton is optioned. Sure, Dalbec has been terrible offensively, but he’s really shown he can pick it @ 1B & 3B this season.
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Post by scottysmalls on Apr 29, 2024 11:25:47 GMT -5
I understand that, I was reacting to the hypothetical that Sogard gets called up. If he gets added, and Grissom gets added, two more players have to move. My preference is that Valdez and Dalbec are those two players and Hamilton stays in MLB. Got it. Apparently there’s a 40 man spot open, so my hope is that Sogard takes that spot and Hamilton is optioned. Sure, Dalbec has been terrible offensively, but he’s really shown he can pick it @ 1B & 3B this season. He's played pretty well defensively but Cooper is a pretty good defensive 1B too, so doesn't need a late replacement, and I think Sogard would be expected to be as good or better a defender at third. The only thing I don't know is if they consider Refsnyder or Sogard acceptable enough to play 1B in a pinch / if Cooper needs a day off (they've been using Wong and Reyes there so maybe not?). Hamilton at least always has value as a pinch runner, and he's been such a dramatically better hitter than Dalbec.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 29, 2024 11:35:34 GMT -5
Surprised by the Reyes DFA.
Reyes isn't particularly good but Hamilton has been awful at SS, so I'm surprised they chose him over Reyes, but it's certainly not a hill I'd want to die on.
Have to say, the debates over the level of suckdom, between Dalbec, Reyes, Hamilton, and to a lesser extent Valdez is kind of...interesting.
Hope they come up with better alternatives to Dalbec and Hamilton at some point as at this point it's pretty clear Valdez goes down to AAA when Grissom gets called up.
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Post by entrylevelhitman on Apr 29, 2024 11:37:09 GMT -5
I understand that, I was reacting to the hypothetical that Sogard gets called up. If he gets added, and Grissom gets added, two more players have to move. My preference is that Valdez and Dalbec are those two players and Hamilton stays in MLB. Got it. Apparently there’s a 40 man spot open, so my hope is that Sogard takes that spot and Hamilton is optioned. Sure, Dalbec has been terrible offensively, but he’s really shown he can pick it @ 1B & 3B this season. Yes, Joely was DFAd so Uwasawa could be called up, and Uwasawa was already on the 40-man. So technically Joely's 40-man spot is still empty. Depending on how pitching goes over the next week, I could see them using that spot for Guerrero (who I expect to be in Boston at some point this Summer anyway), or even needing Fitts/Gambrell for a spot start or two. Who knows. Roster-wise, I feel like it's brutal carrying/protecting Perales and Gonzalez, along with having both Mata and Walter on the minor league IL and unavailable. That basically gives you a 36-man roster, and then once you add the other 7 (!) guys on the non-60-day ILs, you have almost no options to extend your bench. Some people were groaning that Devers sat for a week rather than go on the IL, but there was literally no one to replace him. I don't even know what to think about Dalbec anymore. If you send him down to Worcester, then he's--I'm sorry--kind of in the way. Playing first base is part of Kavadas' and Hickey's development paths right now, and those guys might have futures. Dalbec is likely a non-tender in the offseason anyway since he'll be both out of options and arb-eligible. I'd think he's the next DFA candidate, maybe only sticking around for now until they figure out what's up with Yoshida's arm/wrist/thumb/whatever. But who knows. The possibility of swapping one bench for another is getting me excited, so that's something.
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Post by sxfan on Apr 29, 2024 11:42:34 GMT -5
DFAing Pablo makes the picture crystal clear. Unless they sign someone else, Dalbec is going to back up 1B/3B and Hamilton is going to back up 2B/SS. Valdez is going to get sent down. Wouldn't be surprised if Pablo clears, especially with the May 1st castoffs looming. It wasn't a bad time to DFA him. Not a given that Valdez goes down with Yoshida's health in question. If Yoshida needs a IL stint, Valdez goes to DH and splits some time with Grissom easing him back.
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Post by brendan98 on Apr 29, 2024 11:50:46 GMT -5
TIC - Bobby Dalbec is 6 for his last 19, can't afford to take his bat out of the lineup.
Seriously though, I like his ability to play 3B and 1B for this team and would keep him up.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 29, 2024 11:54:11 GMT -5
DFAing Pablo makes the picture crystal clear. Unless they sign someone else, Dalbec is going to back up 1B/3B and Hamilton is going to back up 2B/SS. Valdez is going to get sent down. Wouldn't be surprised if Pablo clears, especially with the May 1st castoffs looming. It wasn't a bad time to DFA him. Not a given that Valdez goes down with Yoshida's health in question. If Yoshida needs a IL stint, Valdez goes to DH and splits some time with Grissom easing him back. If Yoshida goes on the IL they can theoretically call Valdez back up to fill that roster spot without the waiting period.
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Post by scottysmalls on Apr 29, 2024 11:54:22 GMT -5
If Yoshida does get IL'd and there's a bench player who is going to get significant playing time I wouldn't hate giving Meidroth a little run
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Apr 29, 2024 11:55:42 GMT -5
If Yoshida does get IL'd and there's a bench player who is going to get significant playing time I wouldn't hate giving Meidroth a little run I think Sogard gets a call before Meidroth given how much AAA time he has under his belt at this point. EDIT: though I wouldn’t hate it if we got to see some Meidroth w/ the big league club
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Post by notstarboard on Apr 29, 2024 12:00:12 GMT -5
How do you figure he's the worst defensively? Dalbec and Valdez would have looked worse than Hamilton at SS, and Hamilton would probably be just fine at 2B. It's a mistake, but not necessarily a bad IQ play to miss the bag when trying to drag your toe, especially when you're trying to rush a turn. Let's not forget that he has the least MLB experience of all of these guys and is still adjusting to the speed of the MLB game. He only has 81 career PA at the MLB level. In twelve games, Hamilton has -3 OAA, -2 DRS, 3 errors and two missed bags (one running). That's the worst record among the four pretty clearly. Defensive stats do not stabilize nearly that quickly (and it's -2 OAA, in the spirit of correctness). For a guy that young with that little MLB experience, the odds of him improving are good, especially if he's playing more 2B than SS.
Edit: Reyes has -2 DRS and -2 OAA at SS in like a sixth as many innings. It's also strange to me to knock a guy for being below average at the hardest position on the diamond while not holding it against guys like Valdez that they aren't even a shaky option at there.
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Post by sxfan on Apr 29, 2024 12:04:18 GMT -5
Not a given that Valdez goes down with Yoshida's health in question. If Yoshida needs a IL stint, Valdez goes to DH and splits some time with Grissom easing him back. If Yoshida goes on the IL they can theoretically call Valdez back up to fill that roster spot without the waiting period. Yeah that's a good point. Allows for some roster manipulation the next few days if they wait on Yoshida's results. Sounds ominous from last night's reports. I'm sure Devers will see a good amount of DH time with Dalbec in at 3B against LHP also.
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Post by scottysmalls on Apr 29, 2024 12:11:10 GMT -5
Another thought if Yoshida is DL'd would be to bring up Kavadas, he can be the backup 1B and platoon with Refsnyder at DH. I'm much more optimistic on his chances of hitting than Dalbec's at this point.
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Post by badballhitter on Apr 29, 2024 12:15:13 GMT -5
I think the problem with sending Dalbec down is that you would be, to some extent, handing the 1b job to Cooper who was just DFA'd himself. I think I'd want to see Cooper for some amount of time before committing to him too much.
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Post by sxfan on Apr 29, 2024 12:20:17 GMT -5
Another thought if Yoshida is DL'd would be to bring up Kavadas, he can be the backup 1B and platoon with Refsnyder at DH. I'm much more optimistic on his chances of hitting than Dalbec's at this point. Problem is you would be waisting a very valuable 40 man roster spot to get Kavadas up here. Which the Sox would probably need later on in the season. I'd trust Valdez's bat over Kavadas either way. Valdez hasn't hit yet, but he's due to hit at some point.
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Post by itinerantherb on Apr 29, 2024 12:27:59 GMT -5
I think the problem with sending Dalbec down is that you would be, to some extent, handing the 1b job to Cooper who was just DFA'd himself. I think I'd want to see Cooper for some amount of time before committing to him too much. Isn't this kind of the exact reason they acquired him? He's an established player who's a good bet to be around league average as a hitter. He was DFA because the Cubs had better options for 1B, not because he's terrible.
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Post by puzzler on Apr 29, 2024 12:33:05 GMT -5
In twelve games, Hamilton has -3 OAA, -2 DRS, 3 errors and two missed bags (one running). That's the worst record among the four pretty clearly. Defensive stats do not stabilize nearly that quickly (and it's -2 OAA, in the spirit of correctness). For a guy that young with that little MLB experience, the odds of him improving are good, especially if he's playing more 2B than SS.
Edit: Reyes has -2 DRS and -2 OAA at SS in like a sixth as many innings. It's also strange to me to knock a guy for being below average at the hardest position on the diamond while not holding it against guys like Valdez that they aren't even a shaky option at there.
Dalbec is playing well defensively right now. Hamilton isn't. I don't know how much playing time you think Hamilton is going to get at this point, but I can assure you, it won't be enough for him to 'improve'. And if you're right that he's going to get better - he probably has a much better chance at that in AAA than getting 6 PAs a week and playing 5-10 innings in the field (since April 19th - he's got 6 PAs and 5 innings in the field).
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Post by wamderingdude on Apr 29, 2024 12:37:33 GMT -5
Based on his season so far, i bet the red sox calculus was that the options in triple A (Sogard, Eddy Alvarez, Maybe Meidroth) were just as good as Pablo and the 40 man spot was more valuable. Ideally none of those guys are going to play much anyway and it’s better to keep the flexibility open. They can still option Hamilton if need be where they can’t with reyes. I also don’t see the need to Keep both Hamilton and Reyes, they both aren’t very good defensively outside of second and at least hamilton has one great tool, Reyes has none. Dalbec backs up first and third (where reyes really shouldn’t), Hamilton takes care of the middle, one of the catchers, and then refsnyder is the bench.
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Post by asm18 on Apr 29, 2024 12:40:21 GMT -5
Surprised by the Reyes DFA. Reyes isn't particularly good but Hamilton has been awful at SS, so I'm surprised they chose him over Reyes, but it's certainly not a hill I'd want to die on. Have to say, the debates over the level of suckdom, between Dalbec, Reyes, Hamilton, and to a lesser extent Valdez is kind of...interesting.Hope they come up with better alternatives to Dalbec and Hamilton at some point as at this point it's pretty clear Valdez goes down to AAA when Grissom gets called up. If "which guy hitting .150 should be the last guy on the bench" is the biggest point of argument for the immediate future, things are probably in a good spot
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Post by badballhitter on Apr 29, 2024 12:42:40 GMT -5
I think the problem with sending Dalbec down is that you would be, to some extent, handing the 1b job to Cooper who was just DFA'd himself. I think I'd want to see Cooper for some amount of time before committing to him too much. Isn't this kind of the exact reason they acquired him? He's an established player who's a good bet to be around league average as a hitter. He was DFA because the Cubs had better options for 1B, not because he's terrible. It is, but there's no guarantee that he's not as bad as Dalbec or anyone else. Just saying to give it a week or so to see what they have in Cooper before the very likely Dalbec demotion.
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Post by melvinhoggs on Apr 29, 2024 12:57:45 GMT -5
Isn't this kind of the exact reason they acquired him? He's an established player who's a good bet to be around league average as a hitter. He was DFA because the Cubs had better options for 1B, not because he's terrible. It is, but there's no guarantee that he's not as bad as Dalbec or anyone else. Just saying to give it a week or so to see what they have in Cooper before the very likely Dalbec demotion. It's almost as close to a guarantee as you can possibly get in baseball. Cooper has almost 2000 PAs of league-average-ish-or-better hitting, he's not super old, he's not injured. Dalbec has literally been, on a rate basis, one of the 2-3 worst hitters in all of baseball with a well-established history of K issues. If Cooper stinks (and he won't stink that bad), they should be looking for the next option – not reverting back to Dalbec.
Commit away, and if the time comes that they need to find someone better than Cooper – nobody will be sad we don't have Dalbec to plug into the lineup.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 29, 2024 13:00:01 GMT -5
Isn't this kind of the exact reason they acquired him? He's an established player who's a good bet to be around league average as a hitter. He was DFA because the Cubs had better options for 1B, not because he's terrible. It is, but there's no guarantee that he's not as bad as Dalbec or anyone else. Just saying to give it a week or so to see what they have in Cooper before the very likely Dalbec demotion. I will 100% guarantee, and bet any amount of money, they he won't be as bad as Dalbec.
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