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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 12, 2019 5:40:49 GMT -5
Briefly to sum up why the Sox are mediocre at best right now-
-Matt Barnes has ERA of 13.5 so far in August. -Porcello. -Cashner. -Brian Johnson has a ERA over 9.5 since coming off the IL. -JBJ has given you virtually nothing all year -Chavis has hit a wall and is hitting just above .150 in August -Moreland is hitting .200 in August -Sam Travis is hitting .213 in August -Devers has hit a wall. Chasing everything all over again, while hitting under .200 in August. He's drawing just 1 walk and striking out 13 times in 47 at bats. -Xander is hitting .227 in the month of August. He's also chasing at a lot of everything and not walking a whole lot. -Eduardo Rodriguez has reverted back to Mr. Mediocre himself (with a ERA over 4.5), after looking like a ACE in July. -Mr. Elite in Darwinzon Hernandez has a ERA over 9.5 in August. He's walked 5 in 4+ innings.
There are positives. Like Walden, Vazquez, JDM, Benny, Taylor, and Eovaldi.
It's mostly bad though. This has been mostly a collection of stink recently all into one pile. This is why you can't beat up on a bad Angels team at home right now. It's not just key players. It's everyone.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 12, 2019 5:12:53 GMT -5
Really, I don't know what's more impressive.
Porcello giving up a ERA close to 6 in a full season or Cashner giving up a ERA over 8 in a shorter stint with the Sox.
I'll go with Porcello because it takes a lot more stink to get to that point.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 20:33:58 GMT -5
I have no clue what's your deal with me. Honestly, I like posts I strongly disagree with. Keeps the board fresh and something to talk about while the team plays itself into obscurity. Yes. People like different opinions on here, until they don't. Completely wild, they even want you off the message board.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 18:17:47 GMT -5
More people need to open their mouths when they see stupid posts so it's not just me. No one ever does it because they don't want to read 85 replies delving deep into the mind of a madman. I did, but that got us all of a week off with, apparently, no lessons learned by the perpetrator. I quit, there are other places to get Sox information and talk shop. I have no clue what's your deal with me.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 17:03:16 GMT -5
LOL, this is the easiest bet I ever made!!! Done. Bookmarked. Mookie signs for 260 million, Henry gets a break and looks good, but whatever. People like you make this board absolutely ridiculous and I've left before without having to deal with a absolute hard headed blowhard homer.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 17:00:55 GMT -5
Mookie's salary is budgeted. Are you making my point for me? I'm sorry, was your point that spending $63 million on a prospect is not an indication that your owner is cheap? He spends money. He won't go above and beyond on a contract that will REALLY hurt. What point of this do you not get? We have one and only example with the Manny Ramirez contract here.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 16:58:35 GMT -5
LOL. Henry is just playing by the rules of the collecting bargaining agreement. He isn't doing anything special here. The rest of the owners are making him look like a saint in comparison, so congrats!!! Still has nothing to do with the Mookie situation, which you're detracting from. If the Red Sox re-sign Mookie, you leave the board forever. If they do not, I will. LOL, this is the easiest bet I ever made!!!
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 16:58:05 GMT -5
63 million. Drop in the bucket. Play money. Play money that was not budgeted. Which is what why other owner in the league would not outbid him. Mookie's salary is budgeted. Are you making my point for me?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 16:56:04 GMT -5
Moncada's $63 million price tag is also irrelevant because he was a fascination for Henry. Got it. 63 million. Drop in the bucket. Play money. 300+ plus million contract, not drop in the bucket. Get it?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 16:55:35 GMT -5
Ohh so everything Henry got outbid for in his history here is irrelevant until a certain time point. Got it. And the fact that Henry spends far more than any team in the league is irrelevant. Got it. Henry is cheap, especially when comparing him to absolutely every owner in the sport. Sometimes I think you speak a different language than anyone else I've ever spoken to. LOL. Henry is just playing by the rules of the collecting bargaining agreement. He isn't doing anything special here. The rest of the owners are making him look like a saint in comparison, so congrats!!! Still has nothing to do with the Mookie situation, which you're detracting from.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 16:50:42 GMT -5
Mark Texeira. Jon Lester. Jose Abreu. Jose Contreras. Pedro Martinez. Lester I'd give you even though I didn't want him at that stupid price (and he really wasn't worth it either, especially if he had stayed in the AL East). But they didn't want Abreu because they were in the f'ing World Series at the time. The rest go back before they even owned NESN. And look at everyone else they outbid everyone on since. Ohh so everything Henry got outbid for in his history here is irrelevant until a certain time point. Got it.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 16:49:08 GMT -5
Lol a 63 million dollar Yoan Moncada. Yeah, as if that isn't comparing apples to oranges. Yet, here I provided a great example of Henry with one of the highest contracts in MLB at the time, and that's a terrible example. Agenda!!! It was just money for a prospect. Any team in the league could have done it if they weren't less cheap than Henry. That was a record breaking deal as well. Drop in the bucket for Henry. Again apples to oranges. Moncada was a fascination for Henry because Henry never had a number one overall pick before. The Yankees should have outspent them, and if George were alive, they would have. George's sons aren't 1/10th of their dad though. I agree on that.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 16:46:53 GMT -5
LOL all but one contract was a record market deal. The one deal he broke records for was with a starting pitcher. Guess what? MLB elite players are making 100+ million more than Price now. All the evidence you provided is that he likes to spread the money around. LOL. Name a recent player that the Red Sox were seriously going after in free agency that they didn't sign. Mark Texeira. Jon Lester. Jose Abreu. Jose Contreras. Pedro Martinez.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 16:44:45 GMT -5
I remember when people were saying there's no chance in hell that the Red Sox would get Moncada. Look who was the least cheap owner there. Lol a 63 million dollar Yoan Moncada. Yeah, as if that isn't comparing apples to oranges. Yet, here I provided a great example of Henry with one of the highest contracts in MLB at the time, and that's a terrible example. Agenda!!!
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 16:38:06 GMT -5
Yeap, he is cheap because he's afraid to get stuck with a really bad deal like a Mookie Betts deal coming. He's afraid to take chances on big time contracts and won't even take the risk. He owns the Boston Red Sox and won't take the cheese on the big contracts. Yeah, you can tell they won't do it because of all the times they've done it. LOL all but one contract was a record market deal. The one deal he broke records for was with a starting pitcher. Guess what? MLB elite players are making 100+ million more than Price now. All the evidence you provided is that he likes to spread the money around. LOL.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 16:33:16 GMT -5
Any team with payroll flexibility (example, Braves), unlike the Red Sox next year. Learn to read. What's the next narrative that you come up with to endlessly search for ridiculously stupid evidence to support it? John Henry is cheap because he signed David Price for $210 million, Bogaerts for $120 million, Sale for $150 million, Eovaldi for $67.5 million, JD Martinez for $110 million, Porcello for $82 million, Pedroia for $110 million, Sandoval for $95 million, Hanley Ramirez for $88 million, Castillo for $72.5 million, Moncada for $63 million, while more than half the league has not given out a single contract that large in that time while the Red Sox have done it 11 times. but, but, but, but... Henry didn't want Manny who was a headcase back in 2003! All the evidence needed! Yeap, he is cheap because he's afraid to get stuck with a really bad deal like a Mookie Betts deal coming. He's afraid to take chances on big time contracts and won't even take the risk. He owns the Boston Red Sox and won't take the cheese on the big contracts.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 16:19:23 GMT -5
Lol. He was being cheap. Manny was one of the most expensive contracts in the world at the time. Henry tried to get rid of it for nothing. Now we are confident that Henry will give this same type of contract (one of the most expensive contracts in the history of MLB), to Mookie Betts? Lol, I'm sorry. I don't see it. EVERYTHING THEY DO IS RIGHT THOUGH. Yeah, Henry is cheap like every other owner in the league, so who exactly is giving Mookie a contract? Any team with payroll flexibility (example, Braves), unlike the Red Sox next year. Learn to read and pay attention.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 16:17:24 GMT -5
What is wrong with you? He was a headcase, he was a headcase that you can win with. Good contract. No team wanted him because they were cheap. They didn't want the expensive contract either. What were you 10 then? You're insane if you really reach the logic that John Henry is cheap like every other team in the league because they waived Manny Ramirez and no other team wanted him multiple times. Lol. He was being cheap. Manny was one of the most expensive contracts in the world at the time. Henry tried to get rid of it for nothing. Now we are confident that Henry will give this same type of contract (one of the most expensive contracts in the history of MLB), to Mookie Betts? Lol, I'm sorry. I don't see it. EVERYTHING THEY DO IS RIGHT THOUGH. GO TEAM.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 16:11:22 GMT -5
Manny Ramirez earned 16.4 bWAR in his 3 seasons here in Boston from 2001-2003. He. Was. Worth. Every. Dime. To. That. Point. Just because every other team in baseball was cheap at the time (besides the Yankees, who didn't have the room for him), it doesn't make the Sox move of trying let him go for nothing any better. He wasn't claimed because no team wanted him. He was a headcase at the time. What the hell is wrong with you? Every team in the league was cheap therefore John Henry............ what??!! Any other ridiculously stupid things to complain about? Can't you ever find enough? What is wrong with you? He was a headcase, he was a headcase that you can win with. Good contract. No team wanted him because they were cheap. They didn't want the expensive contract either.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 16:08:01 GMT -5
EDIT: Still waiting on the names of current owners you think are better than Henry, hopefully with an explanation of why they are better. All the owners are the same pile of cheapstakes. That's the point. If the Braves owner is up against the luxury tax threshold, he stops spending. If the Yankees are up against the CBT, they stop spending. If John Henry is up against the CBT, he CLEARLY stops spending. The Sox are up against the CBT next year with Mookie and have no payroll flexibility, so they are going to be a cheapstake.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 16:05:57 GMT -5
There's re-writing history and there's calling a contract "good" when ZERO teams wanted it for free. By definition that is not a good contract. You can argue Manny earned the deal AFTER the move was made, but there can be no debate that the deal was bad at the time since it was proven by history, it's an indisputable fact. If you want to harp on a non-move that literally had zero impact rather than all the other things we could discuss I think that just shows you've reached your opinion and are searching for supporting evidence rather than the whole picture. Good day sir. Manny Ramirez earned 16.4 bWAR in his 3 seasons here in Boston from 2001-2003. He. Was. Worth. Every. Dime. To. That. Point. Just because every other team in baseball was cheap at the time (besides the Yankees, who didn't have the room for him), it doesn't make the Sox move of trying let him go for nothing any better.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 15:57:15 GMT -5
Lol, Henry didn't even need to put Manny Ramirez on the market. That's the point. He tried to get rid of him for nothing. There was no reading of the market correctly here. He was being cheap at the time on a good contract because it was expensive. He was a good owner, but I don't believe he's a super owner or whatever ridiculous label you or others put on him. He's the average big market spender here, but has probably just as many limits, if not more limits on his spending. You can't say he doesn't after this past year. I have zero faith in Henry making a market value deal for Mookie. If Mookie wants to stay, he's going to have to take less. Manny was traded because he had become a problem in the clubhouse. He was trying to force the Sox to either extend or trade him and the final straw was when he pushed the travelling secretary. Manny was the problem not money. You're talking about a completely different time period. The Sox put Manny Ramirez on irrevocable waivers back in 2003.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 15:55:32 GMT -5
Pedro, if you read my post you'd see it wasn't just Steinbrenner outspending the Red Sox, it was a bunch of teams. They didn't reach #2 status until after the Manny contract was signed. In. 2000 they were 7th, 1999 they were sixth, 1998 they were seventh (despite being in a contending window). In 1997 they were fifteenth, in 1996 they were eleventh, 95 they were eighth. They were routinely outspent by teams like the Orioles, Braves, Rangers, and Indians. So again, to reiterate, this wasn't simply being crushed by the evil empire, they were closer to a mid-market team than the Yankees. *the payroll rankings were based on opening day payrolls for each year but that's all I could find on a quick search That wasn't the point you made though. "You asked when was the last time the Sox were the highest spending team?" My point is back then, it was going to be never. You weren't going to do it. Not with George around. Henry has had payrolls that were also 7th, 5th, and not 2nd in the league all the time. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 15:52:05 GMT -5
Makes as much sense as your obsession on my posts. I'm a sucker for circular logic. It got us all a week reprieve, I'll take the win. I clearly explained everything and made my point clear. There was nothing weak here. Nothing condescending. You got nothing.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 11, 2019 15:47:02 GMT -5
Over something small, I wouldn't have thrown a fit. I do on the big things. The only time I threw a fit over something small was the Steve Pearce thing, because I knew Henry was going to set limits on the payroll and every small thing was big. Thanks for clarifying, your world makes total sense to me now. Makes as much sense as your obsession on my posts.
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