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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 2, 2019 15:20:20 GMT -5
Yeah, just realized in today's game that this season has been one of the worsts as a Sox fan, right after one of the best seasons in 2018. Just to wrap things up- -You started a 31 year old journeyman starting pitcher versus a young phenom for the Rays (no wonder why that didn't start well). -You told a kid to do something he's never done before in Darwinzon (pitch 3 games in a row), for no other reason than, you had no choice and you needed him to get a LHB in the crucial part of a game. Feel bad for the kid, hope it doesn't kill his confidence or his ability to keep throwing strikes out of the bullpen. -You keep putting in a AAAA pitcher in Brewer who doesn't belong here, because there weren't many options left and you basically had to when you were behind. He'll be on the roster tomorrow because you have no one better until Brian Johnson arrives. He's been on the roster for basically the whole year. -You pitched a hurt reliever on back to back nights in Hembree, and you haven't put him in the IL, even though you know something is wrong. -You got swept by the one team you had to beat. -The worst part is your front office quit on this team. -They played catch up all year, didn't take spring training seriously. The starting rotation has underperformed. The bullpen has minimal talent. The lineup can't figure out how to get a guy home from 3rd with less than 2 outs. Ohh and the defense and sloppy baserunning pops up every now and again. Am I missing anything? Yeah, I'm probably going to take a week off of talking baseball. I'm not going to keep worrying about the Sox dumb problems. This was all self inflicted wounds from the Sox. I'll watch and listen to this burn to the ground with my popcorn in hand. Definitely reminded me of the times before 2004. Can't turn away because I don't watch anything else on TV, until football and basketball are on. So here's to it!! A season in which they're 8 games above .500 and competing for a wild card spot is one of the worst you can remember as a Red Sox fan? What are you, a goldfish? Here is a list of obviously worse seasons this decade: 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015 The way people react to losing a baseball game around here sometimes makes me wonder how they deal with adversity in their own lives. Do you all just throw up your hands and quit whenever you face a challenge? I mean, since you want to bring up you know personal, non baseball reasons why I'm walking away for a bit. Let's discuss. I'm a goldfish? No. I'm a guy who had 1000 dollars to my name, got a license in a month. At my most crucial point of my life, I actually came up just as big as anyone in my life. 3 years later, I bought a house and had plenty of savings even after. No I'm walking away from baseball because it's a form of entertainment. They aren't very entertaining. The Sox has had one of the most dissapointing falls from one year to the next that I have ever seen. The quit from the front office, all the way down to the underperformance on the field. Yeah, best to walk away and not take this season as seriously from this point on. Hey there's always next year!! That's the one thing you can count on every year with baseball.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 2, 2019 4:11:59 GMT -5
They're playing like they've had some huge mentally damaging, drop of confidence... Almost like their bosses stopped fighting the war. Hey this red sox season is like the Vietnam war. Lack of Government and public support is undermining the soldiers on the field. Well good news - we're playing the Yankees next and they did less at the deadline than we did! I'm sure they're all very sad. I'd imagine Aaron Judge is bent over at his locker, gazing at his locket portrait of Brian Cashman and wondering how he could have betrayed him so. Gary Sanchez has his arms crossed and is refusing to come out of the dugout. Dj LeMahieu sheds a single tear. It will be fun watching the Yankees lose in the playoffs. The only prize to a lost year.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 2, 2019 3:52:24 GMT -5
Yeah, just realized in today's game that this season has been one of the worsts as a Sox fan, right after one of the best seasons in 2018. Just to wrap things up-
-You started a 31 year old journeyman starting pitcher versus a young phenom for the Rays (no wonder why that didn't start well). -You told a kid to do something he's never done before in Darwinzon (pitch 3 games in a row), for no other reason than, you had no choice and you needed him to get a LHB in the crucial part of a game. Feel bad for the kid, hope it doesn't kill his confidence or his ability to keep throwing strikes out of the bullpen. -You keep putting in a AAAA pitcher in Brewer who doesn't belong here, because there weren't many options left and you basically had to when you were behind. He'll be on the roster tomorrow because you have no one better until Brian Johnson arrives. He's been on the roster for basically the whole year. -You pitched a hurt reliever on back to back nights in Hembree, and you haven't put him in the IL, even though you know something is wrong. -You got swept by the one team you had to beat. -The worst part is your front office quit on this team. -They played catch up all year, didn't take spring training seriously. The starting rotation has underperformed. The bullpen has minimal talent. The lineup can't figure out how to get a guy home from 3rd with less than 2 outs. Ohh and the defense and sloppy baserunning pops up every now and again.
Am I missing anything? Yeah, I'm probably going to take a week off of talking baseball. I'm not going to keep worrying about the Sox dumb problems. This was all self inflicted wounds from the Sox. I'll watch and listen to this burn to the ground with my popcorn in hand. Definitely reminded me of the times before 2004. Can't turn away because I don't watch anything else on TV, until football and basketball are on. So here's to it!!
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 2, 2019 0:19:51 GMT -5
Get ready for the Mookie Betts trade rumors. This team is about to get less talented in a quick hurry. The team that can't break payroll for a reliever, isn't going to make the biggest offer for Mookie Betts. If Mookie stays, he's going to have to take less and he's going to have to take the offer they give him this off-season, or bye bye Mookie. So, do you just think the Red Sox are the Rays now...? They wanted to go under the luxury tax for 1 year to reset the penalties after going over the last few years. This means they might go back over. Again, they're the highest paid team in baseball up against it. If Mookie is traded, that's over 20 million in freed space. They'll spend it to at least near the luxury tax. The Red Sox should trade Mookie if they can't re-sign him, but something tells me he's the number 1 priority. Both sides have a number and both sides are waiting to see how he performs and what the market dictates. John Henry has limits on everything. Payroll. Contracts. Everything. I have no doubts the Sox aren't afraid to trade Mookie Betts if they are uncomfortable with what he's demanding, or they wouldn't be listening to offers in the first place.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 23:41:26 GMT -5
Nope. The Sox had a 5 percent chance of coming back 3-0 in 2004 too. The farm system stinks. It's going to get retooled in 2 years anyways. The Sox are stuck in the f-ing middle if they don't make the playoffs this year, which is disastrous for any sports team. So we should go for broke on a 5% bet, but the Sox are headed for disaster in 2020 and beyond so we shouldn't even worry about the future at all. Got it. Get ready for the Mookie Betts trade rumors. This team is about to get less talented in a quick hurry. The team that can't break payroll for a reliever, isn't going to make the biggest offer for Mookie Betts. If Mookie stays, he's going to have to take less and he's going to have to take the offer they give him this off-season, or bye bye Mookie. Add- The Sox most exciting thing they did this trade deadline was listen to what players they could get for Mookie this off-season.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 23:15:11 GMT -5
Seeeee? Playoff odds sinking toward 40%. Now aren't you all glad we didn't trade prospects for a reliever yesterday? Nope. The Sox had a 5 percent chance of coming back 3-0 in 2004 too. The farm system stinks. It's going to get retooled in 2 years anyways. The Sox are stuck in the f-ing middle if they don't make the playoffs this year, which is disastrous for any sports team.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 21:24:54 GMT -5
Hembree shaking his arm coming off the field, followed by the trainer.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 21:09:54 GMT -5
LOL longggg goneeee!!
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 20:28:24 GMT -5
It's not the reality. What about Hudson who has been worth the contract? What about Holland? THE SOX DIDN'T EVEN NEED TO TARGET THE BIG ARMS AND THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF? GET IT? You expected DD to go after Daniel Hudson with the expectation that he'd be a legit contributor while also having to DFA either Workman or Hembree in the process? You and God were the only two that saw that coming. Greg Holland - $3.25M and a 4.54 ERA In this bullsh*t exercise in revisionist history where you get to cherry pick two names out of 100 to prove your point and you still can't pick a decent reliever? Hilarious. I expected DD to get someone and not rely on Darwinzon Hernandez in his 3rd game in a row in high leverage. That would be more ideal. Ohh Holland isn't very good, but you know who he's better than this year? Steve Pearce. Took all of 5 minutes for Sam Travis to replace him. Called that one in the off-season and called that crap when it came out too. There was a million directions DD could have gone. How about beating the White Sox offer for Alex Colome? How about taking on a reliever contract? Try something other than you know, spending money on a guy who just had TOS in Tyler Thornburg.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 20:14:13 GMT -5
third day in a row using darwinzon... You get what you get when you're relying on a kid with no bullpen experience.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 20:11:45 GMT -5
Poor kid. Being thrown into the fire because this front office takes a year off in the bullpen.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 18:27:43 GMT -5
The point is, if you take on enough pieces, you're bound to hit on one or a couple. The proof is in the pudding. The Sox didn't do that. They took one chance on Thornburg and called it a off-season. You're kind of amazing. Every single reasonable person: "The way to build a bullpen is to develop homegrown talent and try to find value deals on lower-profile free agents." You: "No you have to spend lots of money to have a good bullpen. Look at 2007." Everybody: "This demonstrates exactly the opposite of what you're saying." You: "Look, the point is if I had been making a totally different argument, I would be right." Anyway, to now take on your new argument... the four free agents combined for 0.7 fWAR (yes, WAR sucks for relievers, whatever). They spent $11 million to get that 0.7 WAR. And you'd have to admit, they had to be pretty lucky to get "one of the best free agent reliever signings in Red Sox history" in that batch. So this is your model for building a bullpen? YOU NEED TO DEVELOP BOTH ARMS AND SPEND MONEY ON MULTIPLE ARMS TO BUILD DEPTH. ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE THE RED SOX. I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS IS EVEN A CONVERSATION. 11 million dollars? That sounds like cherry picking Okajima out of the picture and also sounds like it's a win for 11 million dollars, which *isn't* bad.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 18:21:50 GMT -5
GO RED SOX!!! EVERYTHING THEY DO IS RIGHT!!!
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 18:21:24 GMT -5
Ha. This is an incredible list of failure. It really should end this argument - e ven in retrospect there's no case to be made that the Sox could have improved their bullpen by spending on free agents. (Also, Yankee black magic is super annoying. What are the odds that the only two guys from this list who haven't spit the bit would be the two that signed with them?) This is the point where we find out if Pedrofan's refusal to acknowledge reality is quirky or clinical. It's not the reality. What about Hudson who has been worth the contract? What about Holland? THE SOX DIDN'T EVEN NEED TO TARGET THE BIG ARMS AND THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF? GET IT?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 16:34:01 GMT -5
Well this is missing the point completely. You weren't getting rid of Eovaldi, Darwinzon, Barnes, and Workman. It would be to add on top of it. You made a big deal about "thinking outside the box" as a way to solve the bullpen issues. It seems to me that adding Cashner, which allows Eovaldi to go to the bullpen, which thus allows one of the most significant bullpen additions any team made at the cost of a couple of 17-year-old lottery tickets, was a pretty good outside-the-box move. Please explain why this is wrong. LOL and what about this Porcello problem? You need Eovaldi in the rotation, not in the bullpen. Adding Cashner was a solid move. You needed MORE on top of that. I was the one that told people here that Eovaldi might be needed in the rotation.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 15:14:43 GMT -5
Someone will post that this is a Must Win or the season is lost. With that kind of pressure, I don't dare watch. PS Wright's bruised toe has turned into a long-term disability. Wright is a liability and a unicorn that Sox fans point to when they are looking for improvements that can be made to the bullpen.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 15:09:20 GMT -5
Darwinzon's really come back to earth in is last three outings against the top teams.
He allowed a .224 xwOBA and only fanned 5 of the 10 hitters he faced, when he had fanned 13 out of his last 19 in his first inning of work.
His first inning xwOBA is up to .134 in 32 PA. Matt Moore leads MLB for guys with 30+ PA, with .206 in 33. Kirby Yates is next at .208. The .224 xwOBA would only rank 6th -- out of 596 guys.
Oh, Eovaldi excluding his rusty debut is .266, which would rank 43rd. Barnes is .263 on the season and Workman is .269.
It'll be fun comparing both their August / September numbers against the guys we didn't trade for.
Well this is missing the point completely. You weren't getting rid of Eovaldi, Darwinzon, Barnes, and Workman. It would be to add on top of it.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 14:59:06 GMT -5
It shows that if you spend money on enough guys or if you target the right guy, you make out awesome. Okajima wasn't just good. That was one of the best free agent reliever signings in Red Sox history. The point is, when you spend this little money on a bullpen, you get what you deserve here with this crappy bullpen. Just watch, the Sox will sign a reliever this off-season. No one will bring how investing on a bullpen arm is a mistake. They will instead like the signing, as if the narrative is completely changed. 2 homegrown talents, one reclamation project, and getting it right on 1 of 4 free agent signings...and your takeaway is spend, spend, spend. Not surprised, wouldn't expect anything less from you at this point. I'm going to find Damaineah and have a rational conversation about outfield options. The point is, if you take on enough pieces, you're bound to hit on one or a couple. The proof is in the pudding. The Sox didn't do that. They took one chance on Thornburg and called it a off-season.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 14:17:39 GMT -5
The 2007 Boston Red Sox spent- 4 million dollars to Joel Pinero 2.5 million dollars to Hideki Okajima 3 million dollars to Mike Timlin 1.6 million dollars to J.C. Romero The 2007 Red Sox spent more money on 41 year old Mike Timlin than the 2019 Boston Red Sox spent on anyone in the entire bullpen in free agency. 13 years later. That's about as sad as it gets folks. Just putting that out there for context. You might have not needed a arm if the Sox spent more than a small market team 10 years ago in this area. 2007 results from that money spent: Joel Pinero - 5.03 ERA, sucked Hideki Okajima - lottery ticket that worked out very well Timlin - 3.42 ERA and was quite Hembree like that year J.C. Romero - so good that they released him That's $11.1M for one good relief pitcher. And for real, actual context that 2007 bullpen was dominated by Papelbon, Delcarmen, Okajima, and Javier Lopez. That's two homegrown guys, one guy they effectively paid a fortune for, and one guy they pulled off the scrap heap. This is not the "throw money at it and all your problems go away" scenario that you're implying it to be. Quite the opposite, actually. You seem to be missing (or just flat out ignoring) the cause-and-effect of this scenario. But keep trying, I know you will. It shows that if you spend money on enough guys or if you target the right guy, you make out awesome. Okajima wasn't just good. That was one of the best free agent reliever signings in Red Sox history. The point is, when you spend this little money on a bullpen, you get what you deserve here with this crappy bullpen. Just watch, the Sox will sign a reliever this off-season. No one will bring how investing on a bullpen arm is a mistake. They will instead like the signing, as if the narrative is completely changed.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 6:14:30 GMT -5
So with 53 games left. This front office wiped there ass, with a 240 million roster. Instead of sending the signal that they still believe. They threw up the white flag. I have no doubt that if they had more expiring contracts it would have been a fire sale. Dombrowski had the nerve to say his phone was ringing off the hook with other teams calling wanting to acquire the current bullpen piecies... That's insulting to us as fans. The team's core issue is that Sale, Price, and Porcello just haven't had it this year Yes, and you can't do anything about Price (who's probably just going through a funk), and Sale (who might be ailing all year due to a injury, down velocity). You CAN fix the Porcello problem however. You pull him and phantom IL him or you let him mop up games, until he's out of it. You could even release the dude, he's pitching so poorly. If you increased bullpen depth, you could have used Eovaldi as a opener. You could have started Brian Johnson and followed with Eovaldi. A million options here. The depth would have been important here because Porcello is forcing the issue to pull him. You already have two arms who are worse than even Daniel Hudson right now (speaking on ragging on Hudson). Heath Hembree has a injured arm with down velocity, Brewer isn't a major league pitcher. The Sox needed the depth anyways. Now they entrenched themselves further by giving themselves no clear way out of the Porcello situation.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 5:59:48 GMT -5
Also, I think it's a strength rather than a weakness that they don't have anyone who has to pitch the 9th with a clean inning.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 5:37:38 GMT -5
The Sox own manager was even expecting a trade. Saying that the teams that try to make a world series are the ones to make moves. Of course he backed off after his organization left him high and dry, and he's in a management position and that's what you do when you're in that spot.
Fenway even had no buzz. It was just deflating to watch that whole day unravel. Checking no updates on Twitter, then watching the disaster of a game.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 1, 2019 3:35:07 GMT -5
The 2007 Boston Red Sox spent-
4 million dollars to Joel Pinero 2.5 million dollars to Hideki Okajima 3 million dollars to Mike Timlin 1.6 million dollars to J.C. Romero
The 2007 Red Sox spent more money on 41 year old Mike Timlin than the 2019 Boston Red Sox spent on anyone in the entire bullpen in free agency. 13 years later. That's about as sad as it gets folks. Just putting that out there for context. You might have not needed a arm if the Sox spent more than a small market team 10 years ago in this area.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 31, 2019 23:52:36 GMT -5
So, now that the trade market is no longer hypothetical, anyone want to weigh in on what they would have done? I'm specifically curious what those of you who burst arteries over our failure to get a reliever would have done. For instance, Detroit traded Shane Greene for Joey Wentz and Travis Demeritte. What would you have shelled out to outbid Atlanta? I'm not at all knowledgeable about other teams' prospects, but fangraphs has Wentz as a 45+ future value high-A pitcher which is a higher rating than they give Triston Casas. They give Demeritte a 35+ value, equivalent to Jhonathan Diaz. Would you have traded Casas (or, say, Mata) + Diaz for Greene? (I know these FV's may be a little dated; help me out here if you feel you have better comps from the Sox system.) In another exciting deadline deal, the Jays sent Daniel Hudson to the Nationals for Kyle Johnston, who is a 23-year-old repeating high-A. Who's the Sox equivalent to that? Maybe Diaz again, actually... I don't know. Anyway, do you wish Dombrowski had moved that sort of player for Daniel Hudson? Sam Dyson was probably the best reliever traded - and for him the Twins gave up: Prelander Berroa, Jaylin Davis, and Kai-Wei Teng (all 40 FV). Davis is a 25yo outfielder in AAA; the other two are rookie league pitchers. Equivalent from the Sox system might be... I dunno, Brayan Bello, Brandon Howlett, and CJ Chatham? (I'm really unsure about these comps; again, feel free to offer your own.) Would you make that trade? Yeah!!! Hembree is averaging 92 mph right now with the fastball and has a ERA over 7 since coming off the IL, but we have to make sure not to give anyone up to replace that. He's better than half the arms on the trade market!! Couldn't get creative here if you didn't have much money or prospects you wanted to give up? You couldn't take a flyer here somewhere? You couldn't do that?!! Actually this might be believable because Dombrowski is just as creative as a 5 year old with elbow macaroni and glue. Just crap that a lot people is eating here from the team. The team just punted the trade deadline and the GM basically said he didn't believe in the team, despite being a couple games back. They spit in the faces of the fans who spent tickets on this year's team. I'm glad I didn't pay for any tickets this year.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 31, 2019 22:23:44 GMT -5
BOOOO!!!! BOOOOOOO!!!!!!
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