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Post by swingingbunt on Feb 1, 2018 0:44:44 GMT -5
Then you're again getting into the idea of paying Mookie like Trout when he isn't close to the player Trout is. It just doesn't make sense.
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Post by swingingbunt on Feb 1, 2018 0:10:17 GMT -5
I think it's about the right place to be in negotiations, yes. I'm not looking for a negotiation with my best player. I'm looking for a deal. 6 and 150 million dollars probably gets a Mookie extension done. He'll be worth that over the next 6 years, I guarantee that. There will be a negotiation whether you want one or not. If you start at 6 and 150 then they ask for 180+. You have to start somewhere, and DD started at a good place. It still takes two to make a deal happen.
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 31, 2018 22:50:04 GMT -5
What are you disagreeing with? Are you saying Mookie has been as good as Trout? I'm saying the offer for Mookie wasn't on par with the offer of Mike Trout, even with the difference of talent. Mookie got 44.5 million less. Is the difference of Trout and Mookie worth almost 45 million, especially considering inflation? I think it's about the right place to be in negotiations, yes.
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 31, 2018 22:17:48 GMT -5
Yes, it was a realistic offer. It was buying three years of arbitration out, which if they had sided with Boston today would be more like 8/12/18 as opposed to 10/17/25 now. Was it a stellar offer? No. But it was in exchange for guaranteed money. Trout had also posted a three year fWAR total of 28.7 (10.3, 10.5, 7.9) before his deal started in 2015. Betts meanwhile was at 7.9 in '16, and around 5.0 in '15 and '17. Betts doesn't have nearly the track record of Trout Agree to disagree here. What are you disagreeing with? Are you saying Mookie has been as good as Trout?
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 31, 2018 20:11:22 GMT -5
It is just business. And taking your best player to arbitration is really bad business, and taking him to arbitration and losing is irresponsible and dumb business.I' I'm still not clear what you think the Sox should have done instead. By all accounts, they tried to sign him, and he refused. What other option was available to them?
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 27, 2018 0:03:02 GMT -5
Well, this sucks...
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 26, 2018 23:28:36 GMT -5
To be clear, you’ve been warned multiple times by the moderators about posting the same thing over and over again, being unable to accept that others may disagree with you, derailing threads, etc. I’d urge you to take heed of those warnings. I do accept the disagreements. I just have a counterargument and a decent point to make on the other side. I also disagree on the fact that I've derailed threads on this topic in particular. I've kept the Boras talk to Boras. I've kept the J.D. Martinez to another thread. Others are making this personal Jmie. There was no need for swingingbunt's 2 comments. I'll leave it at that. I didn't make it personal. I'm just correcting your point that people are critical of your posts because you think Martinez isn't going to sign for less. That simply isn't true.
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 26, 2018 22:47:58 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure you're missing the boat on why people have been critical of your posts. Not really. I've been right on when it's come to this topic the whole time between Boras overvaluing his clients, the time it has taken to get free agents signed, and Boras not giving in. The only response people have given me is the time factor that is left in free agency, which is true, but irrelevant because of the stalemate. You're probably right. It can't be that you've posted the same thing about 300 times over the past month. Carry on.
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 26, 2018 21:28:26 GMT -5
I've been banging the drum of Martinez isn't going to sign for less no matter what his market is for a while now. People here have also been critical of me for it. This offer has probably been on the table for over month now. The Sox need to have fall back options. Ryan Braun is the only guy that might be worthwhile. I'm pretty sure you're missing the boat on why people have been critical of your posts.
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 24, 2018 12:20:17 GMT -5
Yes actually. That's how inflation works. Well, Papi may have been underpaid based on performance and importance to the clubhouse and it was two years ago, but $25M is more than inflation. It may turn out to be today's market. On the current trend, Harper might be 35-40M. Ten years from now the top players may reach 100M/year. I hope I can afford NESN. If you can't afford NESN, it won't be because the players are making too much money. Here's something I stole from another poster on a different board:
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 24, 2018 11:32:43 GMT -5
As stated and well argued by others previously, the fact that David Ortiz was underpaid does not mean that every player the Red Sox sign going forward should therefore also be underpaid. Also comparing, say, 2006 dollars (Ortiz's age 30 season) to 2018 dollars (Martinez's) isn't quite the same given that the CBT has increased by more than $60 million. Also consider the bit of a (relative) swoon he had around 2009 that raised the question of whether he was starting to decline. So because there's more money available now than there was 8 years ago means we have to pay more money to a player that hasn't performed as that player did in previous years when there was less money? Yes actually. That's how inflation works.
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 24, 2018 0:57:54 GMT -5
I haven't been this pissed about a loss in a really long time. Of all the games to lose...
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Boras
Jan 23, 2018 16:06:11 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by swingingbunt on Jan 23, 2018 16:06:11 GMT -5
But, but, but, it's just a game, and they can just get another job....
Or something.
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 22, 2018 14:46:56 GMT -5
Other than "I can only vote for 10," what reason do people have leaving Jeff Kent off their list? Look at his numbers compared to other second basemen:
First in HR Top 3 in Slugging, RBI, Doubles, XBH, OPS Top 5 in TB
And he has a better career WAR than 8 second basemen who are already in the HOF.
I just don't get why he isn't already in.
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 19, 2018 19:54:03 GMT -5
Starting to remind me a little too much of the Teixeira negotiations.
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 17, 2018 22:07:13 GMT -5
I wonder how much of the failure to develop pitchers has been because they don't have pitching prospects that are good enough. Ding ding ding! It's an identification of talent issue more than a development issue. I think there's some blame due with Barnes and I think he could've ended up a starter, but they never got enough credit for getting flawed dudes like Owens and Ranaudo and Johnson to the majors. The other side of that coin is that their absurd laser-focus on tall pitchers led them to Owens and Ranaudo types. When they broke off from that habit, they ended up drafting Michael Kopech. I don't know....There's certainly a round somewhere in the draft where "getting to the majors" gets you credit, but the first round is not it.
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 16, 2018 0:09:56 GMT -5
What's the benefit of "moving on" if you aren't planning on going after another guy right away? What's in it for the Sox to leave a negotiation that they will win if they just wait it out?
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 15, 2018 22:35:31 GMT -5
I'm surprised also. I thought they'd try for a compromise. Assuming something in the middle range, say $9 million, then throwing in the overhead which Cot's sets at $14 million, I estimate around $208 million in salary costs, give or take $500K. Add in a big bat and it's probably more on the order of $230-$233 million. Not a big problem this year, but it does greatly limit the options going forward. In a perverse way, you'd want Price to have a great year so that he walks. If he doesn't exercise his option, the team will be right up against the cap again. Arb year contracts aren't going to get any cheaper. The arbitrator picks either Betts' or the club's number. He does not pick a middle ground between the two numbers. Mookie isn't Roger Clemens, so that checks out.
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 13, 2018 20:07:45 GMT -5
The Sox didn't "do" anything to Mookie though. It takes two to make a deal.
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Boras
Jan 13, 2018 15:14:58 GMT -5
via mobile
Coreno likes this
Post by swingingbunt on Jan 13, 2018 15:14:58 GMT -5
And who would be crazy enough to argue with a sample size of <1 off-season?
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 12, 2018 21:55:59 GMT -5
I guess I'm not seeing it. What cases are you referring to? Donaldson in particular. He could make less if he has another injury riddled year. Gotcha, I haven't seen Donaldson's figure and thought you were talking about a player for the Red Sox
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 12, 2018 21:38:04 GMT -5
Arbitration numbers are creeping closer to actually AAV matched in free agency in a lot of cases. The numbers that are crazy now. I guess I'm not seeing it. What cases are you referring to?
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 12, 2018 20:21:14 GMT -5
They would have exchanged numbers with Betts before this was released, but Kris Bryant just got $10.85M, setting a first-year arb record. When Ryan Howard won his record setting case, wasn't part of the reason because he had an MVP? And with Bryant having an MVP too, doesn't that make he and Mookie not as likely to be compared?
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Post by swingingbunt on Jan 12, 2018 20:05:45 GMT -5
Mookie is asking 10.5 Million and the Red Sox offered 7.5 Million. 1) That’s less than Pomeranz and scarcely more than Bogaerts. Mookie is a better player than both. 2) I understand it’s a business, but Mookie is clearly worth 10.5 Million. Why not pay him that? 3) Shouldn’t we be worried about this turning into another Jon Lester lowball fiasco? As to point 1, all three players you referenced are in different parts of the arbitration process. The cornerstone of arbitration is that you can only compare players salaries with similar service time.
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Boras
Jan 11, 2018 21:39:57 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by swingingbunt on Jan 11, 2018 21:39:57 GMT -5
Now THAT'S a hot take. Nicely done!
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