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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 5, 2020 7:01:02 GMT -5
The trade, if it had to be made, is probably like a B+ trade. I don't know that they could have gotten a whole lot more.
Deciding to make the trade in the first place gets an F-.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 5, 2020 6:59:43 GMT -5
Take a swing at Taijuan Walker. There’s a bunch of upside there. 85-88 in his first showing for scouts... I bet he's cheap then, perfect for the Red Sox.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 5, 2020 6:56:02 GMT -5
bUt wE hAvE fInAnCiaL fLeXiBiLitY nOw
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 5, 2020 6:54:03 GMT -5
Again, I think the fact that: A. Price didn't opt out. B. The Red Sox felt compelled to take on half his contract Should tell you all you need to know about how MLB felt about David Price. C. A very smart team that desperately wants to win the World Series decided that David Price should be a major piece of their rotation.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 4, 2020 23:26:41 GMT -5
This trade is really bad but I'm not about to put all the blame on Bloom when we don't know how much of this was ownership forcing his hand. This is unfortunately what Bloom was brought here to do, and he's doing it. And so far, he's doing a terrible job at it. This is all he was ever going to get for Mookie. That's why I never wanted to trade him in the first place.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 4, 2020 22:41:26 GMT -5
Hey guys remember that time Price was really good in the very distant year of 2019. I'm sure glad we got rid of him! He's been very good since he got his changeup working again in the 2018 postseason and I'm sure the Dodgers know it.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 4, 2020 22:39:59 GMT -5
I keep waiting to hear that Downs or some other prospect is part of this too, but it doesn't seem like that's the case. I can't wrap my mind around how little the Dodgers gave up if this is the full deal. This was as much about getting out from under Price as it was getting something for Mookie. So glad they're "out from under" from a player who likely would have been the second or third best starter on the team this year.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 4, 2020 22:24:05 GMT -5
I’m pretty cranky. The Red Sox are not as good as they were when I had dinner. More profitable, though.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 4, 2020 22:15:47 GMT -5
The fact they had to eat half Price's contract shows you what MLB thought of David Price. Not to mention, again, the Dodgers might lose Betts after this year. What more do you want? I think it should be pretty goddamned obvious at this point that I wanted to keep Mookie Betts.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 4, 2020 22:14:52 GMT -5
I think that’s a bad deal for minny They must really like Maeda Or they just want to unload Graterol while his arm is still sort of attached to his body.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 4, 2020 22:12:21 GMT -5
This is all Henry. I'm convinced he forced Blooms hand. The buck stops at Bloom Bloom doesn't sign the checks. This is all Henry.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 4, 2020 22:11:38 GMT -5
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 4, 2020 22:08:38 GMT -5
we're gonna re-sign Mookie next year right?? No.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 4, 2020 22:07:48 GMT -5
You guys realize they still have a really good lineup right? The only way they’ll suck is if the pitching doesn’t show up again imo. The pitching they just traded away?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 4, 2020 22:04:15 GMT -5
I hope that when David Price gets a second ring with LA he has his own parade that's just him in a duckboat circling Dennis Eckersley's house.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 4, 2020 21:58:28 GMT -5
For those worried about his innings totals..... He is 20. Ah yes, nothing more reassuring and reliable than a 20 year old pitcher. Money in the bank.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 4, 2020 21:56:15 GMT -5
Well, they traded my favorite player away, but at least the team is shitty now.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 4, 2020 21:26:01 GMT -5
Not watching Red Sox baseball this season, f*ck this sh*t, f*ck John Henry, really f*ck everything right now. I hope we're cursed another 86 years. Just lay back and think of financial responsibility.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 3, 2020 11:46:56 GMT -5
I've always been a little baffled by how quickly a lot of fans took a "this is just the way things are" attitude towards baseball's (not a salary cap) salary cap when that system really just came in five minutes ago, and is expected to blow up in another couple minutes. Of course I should have known this was football's fault in some way! When you say "this is just the way things are", you realize that what you're really saying is that "there is not an unlimited budget", right? Your answer is always for John Henry to spend more, but there is an actual finite limit at some point, even if he was the dumbest MFer in the history of billionaires. You'd be criticizing yourself if you agree that Mookie should be paid less than 100% of all Red Sox revenue. So basically you're saying that anyone who thinks the Red Sox should go over $208 is de facto arguing that John Henry should and in fact must spend infinity dollars on the Red Sox? Am I getting that right?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 3, 2020 11:10:08 GMT -5
Because I believe they have a very reasonable chance to spend $40 million/year more effectively than one one player - even one as good as Mookie Betts. Would you rather Mookie Betts or Springer and Bauer? Betts, not hard. Give me a good one.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 3, 2020 11:07:56 GMT -5
Side comment: I'd like to study the overlap with fans who get really into the "THE PLAYER MAKES TOO MUCH" and how many of them are football fans. The "it's okay to cut a decent player because his cap number is hurting us" has been really deeply ingrained into football fans for a long time. And the football salary structure situation makes for a lot of perverse incentives. In football, a decent player who is making too much money really does hurt your ability to add other players. In baseball? That's largely not the case. Mookie Betts making $35M instead of $30M isn't going to amount to a hill of beans in building the 2027 Red Sox. Whereas, in football, with the fact contacts are guaranteed, you can just cut a player who is no longer providing excess value. The way football fans get excited about cutting a solid player who has been with the team for awhile beacuse he makes too much money borders on sociopathic, and it's one of the reasons I've kinda grown apart from the NFL. I've always been a little baffled by how quickly a lot of fans took a "this is just the way things are" attitude towards baseball's (not a salary cap) salary cap when that system really just came in five minutes ago, and is expected to blow up in another couple minutes. Of course I should have known this was football's fault in some way!
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 3, 2020 10:35:36 GMT -5
WAR is not a projection system, chapter infinity. Using 380 PAs of WAR as a predictive measure is using a 380 PA sample of defense and treating it as the baseline going forward. Maybe Verdugo is a great defender if someone wants to deep dive on that, but Fangraphs gave him a 50/50 on his fielding, 45/40 run, and to his credit a 60 arm. Any good projection system is going to regress that defense, which is why Steamer has him at about 2 fWAR per 500 PAs. Baseball Savant has him decidedly average on defense. Success rate 89%, estimated success rate 88%. Fangraphs scouting, reported 2019: Hit GamePower RawPower Speed Field Throws Future Value 55 / 60 40 / 45 55 / 55 45 / 40 50 / 50 60 / 60 50
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 3, 2020 10:30:10 GMT -5
God, I hate this. David Price subsidized is NOT a negative asset. Give them money, get more prospects back!! I kind of suspect/hope reporters are hearing, "they're haggling over the Price contract" and being kind of lazy about interpreting that. I mean, they're not deep-diving on Price's season or the Red Sox 2022 payroll or anything when they hear these rumors, they're tweeting as quickly as possible.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 3, 2020 10:26:02 GMT -5
Verdugo is an average player and the rest I don't care about as well. I don't want to trade Mookie, but I could be convinced by a spectacular return. This one isn't it and I don't see how it helps you win another World Series. Stopped reading when you called the 3.1 WAR in 380 ABs 23 year old an average player It’s completely disingenuous. I get being against trading Mookie and I get it hurting but we don’t need to lie to ourselves to make ourselves more angry WAR is not a projection system, chapter infinity. Using 380 PAs of WAR as a predictive measure is using a 380 PA sample of defense and treating it as the baseline going forward. Maybe Verdugo is a great defender if someone wants to deep dive on that, but Fangraphs gave him a 50/50 on his fielding, 45/40 run, and to his credit a 60 arm. Any good projection system is going to regress that defense, which is why Steamer has him at about 2 fWAR per 500 PAs.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 3, 2020 9:58:35 GMT -5
Based on that, even if the Red Sox offered Mookie his 12/420 deal today, I'm not sure he'd take it. I honestly believe he thinks Trout left money on the table, and he wants to reset the market. And you know what - he has every right to do what's best for himself and his family. Mookie seems like a really good guy, and I'm happy that he's going to get paid. He's probably right. I'm just not going to be mad at the Red Sox if they decide that he's going to get more than what they're comfortable with, so it's time to get what you can for him. I don't understand why not. Have the Red Sox not been trying to squeeze you for every last dime your entire life? This is like not being mad that Comcast is raising your rates.
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