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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 5, 2013 8:53:39 GMT -5
And it's hard to argue otherwise. If you can't trust a guy to play at the most important time in the year then it's hard to justify a QO.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Nov 5, 2013 9:18:56 GMT -5
I think this is a situation where the front office has much more information than we do. There's a chance that they have already had conversations with Salty's agent. Perhaps he is assured of coming back at a below market rate ie. they already are close to a 2 year deal. .. Salty says no (although the start of the 2nd paragraph suggests they may have been almost there earlier, and the end suggests he hasn't checked with his people): fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/11/05/jarrod-saltalamacchia-on-red-sox-it-would-be-nice-to-have-them-call/“Obviously a lot of teams have already called. They called the day the World Series ended. It’s really flattering and it makes me realize other teams do appreciate what I’ve done. Now on the other side, it would feel good if the Red Sox … We really haven’t had any conversation with them,” Saltalamacchia said. “It would be nice to have them call and appreciate that as well and show their appreciation by saying, ‘This is what we’re willing to do. We’re willing to go to this, that and the other thing.’ We really haven’t had discussions but they may call and do that so maybe I’m premature in saying this. But that’s part of the process and you have to keep an open mind and the same time you have to be humbled enough to realize you’re taking good criticism with the bad criticism and let it play out. “I’m a little surprised with not more conversation going on just because I thought we had a common idea of where we wanted to be. I put so much time and effort into the team and into the organization and they’ve done the same for me. But like I said, I may be premature and they might call out of nowhere, or might have already called and I just don’t know yet.”
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 5, 2013 9:23:00 GMT -5
I think its clear that neither side owes the other anything. The Red Sox believed in Salty and gave him the opportunity and instruction to save his career. Salty took it, bought in and worked his ass off. Both sides are even.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 5, 2013 9:26:38 GMT -5
I think Salty should shut his yap.
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Post by wskeleton76 on Nov 5, 2013 9:56:00 GMT -5
Well he sounds cute.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 5, 2013 11:15:43 GMT -5
I think Salty should shut his yap. Sounded to me like he's just a nice guy being too nice;honest to a reporter. We tend to read too much into quotes and headlines and take them out of context.
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Post by okin15 on Nov 5, 2013 12:28:14 GMT -5
I think it's a mistake to have so little contact with Salty. If they weren't going to give a QO, they needed to have some contact, explain the situation, and tell them where they were at. Crazy to leave it open ended like this and have him feeling like some jilted lover. No, he's not David Ortiz important, but he has been your starting catcher... and the heir to Varitek for a couple of seasons now, so show some respect and have a sit-down with the guy.
Plus, I think they should have given him the QO.
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Post by jrffam05 on Nov 5, 2013 12:57:06 GMT -5
I am still puzzled by this move, and more so after the WEEI article. Assuming that article is accurate I would guess there is a minute chance Salty comes back, or they would have at least touched base with him. Which I think would be fine if there wasn't such a weak C market. McCann and Salty have basically been equal offensively the last 3 years, and outside of McCann I just don't see any free agent who is a clear upgrade over Salty.
Catching is in my mind a defense first position, and maybe they are looking for a catcher the pitchers are more comfortable throwing to. If I had the choice I would of resigned Salty, either on a QO or a 1-2 Year contract. Like the Lefty/Right + Starter/Backup split those two had. Don't think the cost of a pick and salary commitment for McCann is worth it. Guess that is why I don't work in baseball.
Yes I know they still have months to sign Salty, but those comments really left a bad taste in my mouth. Reminds me of Cody Ross's free agency. If they had interest they would have at least talked to him.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Nov 5, 2013 14:22:48 GMT -5
I know Martin and Salty aren't in the exact same situation, but it's the best comparable we have from last year's FA group. Martin signed for 2/17, and he was vocal about how that was the only legitimate offer he received. I know a bunch of teams could use upgrades at catcher but history says non-elite catchers just don't get paid.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 5, 2013 15:25:13 GMT -5
I know Martin and Salty aren't in the exact same situation, but it's the best comparable we have from last year's FA group. Martin signed for 2/17, and he was vocal about how that was the only legitimate offer he received. I know a bunch of teams could use upgrades at catcher but history says non-elite catchers just don't get paid. This, who's going to commit a huge chunk of salary to Salty. Most teams pay rolls aren't sub 100M.... who's going to want to put more than 10% of their payroll into a guy like Salty?
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Post by jrffam05 on Nov 5, 2013 16:31:44 GMT -5
I know Martin and Salty aren't in the exact same situation, but it's the best comparable we have from last year's FA group. Martin signed for 2/17, and he was vocal about how that was the only legitimate offer he received. I know a bunch of teams could use upgrades at catcher but history says non-elite catchers just don't get paid. This, who's going to commit a huge chunk of salary to Salty. Most teams pay rolls aren't sub 100M.... who's going to want to put more than 10% of their payroll into a guy like Salty? Pitts 2013 payroll 79.5M Martin 2013 Salary 7.5M (Per ESPN) Almost 10% of Pittsburgh's salary. This is just to be used as a reference, as I really don't trust fangraphs catcher defensive metrics, but according to Fangraphs, Salty had a better defensive 2013 than Martins 2012. I don't buy it, but Salty did have a pretty good time hitting as a Catcher. F-WOBA of .349, over Pedroia (.347), Ellsbury (.343) Gomes (.338) and Drew (.337) (That calculates SB + CS into the average also)
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 5, 2013 16:37:03 GMT -5
Yes and at 7.5M salty is worth his price and my guess is he'd be back in Boston if the cost was 3/22... which is why the Sox did not give a QO. The problem comes in if the Salaries start pushing over 10M per season for 3-5 years.
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Post by okin15 on Nov 6, 2013 14:22:05 GMT -5
There really need to be tiers of compensation like in football. No way should Salty be considered for the same type of compensation that an Ortiz or Ellsbury would garner. 1st round ought to be more money, and second round less (than current).
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 6, 2013 15:57:43 GMT -5
There really need to be tiers of compensation like in football. No way should Salty be considered for the same type of compensation that an Ortiz or Ellsbury would garner. 1st round ought to be more money, and second round less (than current). They really should just get rid of compensation. It's supposed to benefit teams like Tampa who can't afford to keep their players, but winds up benefitting teams like Boston and the Yankees, who combined for half of the QO's this year. This system is better than the Type A/B ridiculousness, but it's still not a good system.
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Post by jmei on Nov 6, 2013 16:22:54 GMT -5
This current system only rewards big market teams (who can afford to risk offering the QO) and hurts mid-tier free agents (who have to decide between a one-year overpay without long-term security (accepting the QO) and the risk that the QO penalty hurts their free agent value (rejecting the QO)). I wish they'd implement something like the NFL that uses a formula to decide compensatory picks based on players signed/lost and the AAV of their contracts-- that type of system is much harder to "game" than the current one.
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Post by Guidas on Nov 6, 2013 17:07:02 GMT -5
This current system only rewards big market teams (who can afford to risk offering the QO) and hurts mid-tier free agents (who have to decide between a one-year overpay without long-term security (accepting the QO) and the risk that the QO penalty hurts their free agent value (rejecting the QO)). I wish they'd implement something like the NFL that uses a formula to decide compensatory picks based on players signed/lost and the AAV of their contracts-- that type of system is much harder to "game" than the current one. I'd be all for that if you could "Franchise tag" a player every year for up to two years AND trade draft picks (and their respective slot funds) in the first four rounds.
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Post by jmei on Nov 6, 2013 17:15:49 GMT -5
Comp picks in football can't be traded (and, as a side note, are relatively minor in value-- earlier you can get is third round, and that's if you lose 4 free agents). I also think the franchise tag is a little silly, especially in a sport without a salary cap and with guaranteed contracts. Professional athletes can have their career end due to catastrophic injury at any moment, and the only means to minimize risk is the long-term contract. Being able to keep them hostage on one-year deals seems unnecessary.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 6, 2013 20:50:47 GMT -5
The entire draft slotting system is stupid as well. Teams should be able to spend what they want in the draft. It's not a big market advantage at all. Only thing that held back small market teams were owners who didn't care to spend not who couldn't.
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