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Post by burythehammer on Jan 22, 2014 15:02:07 GMT -5
It's so amusing to see people around here (speaking geographically, not this board specifically) perennially underestimate the Yankees. And be wrong about it every single year except for last year when they were a MASH unit.
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Post by burythehammer on Jan 22, 2014 15:05:42 GMT -5
"They don't have an All-Star at every position! That approach never works!"
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 22, 2014 15:12:33 GMT -5
"They don't have an All-Star at every position! That approach never works!" They barely have replacement level players at 3 IF positions.
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Post by sbones13 on Jan 22, 2014 15:21:16 GMT -5
I think McCann and Ellsbury are 2 of the best players in baseball at their position. Especially in Yankee stadium. This always gets me. They aren't BETTER because they're in Yankee Stadium. They may have better numbers, but they're still the same player. Every time they play the Sox, Ortiz is "Better" too. Any ball he pulls has a chance to go out. I get that they can tailor their swings somewhat since they will play there all year, but every game they play at the Stadium, every lefty on the other team has the same advantages. That said, if McCann and Ellsbury stay healthy they could be great. And they probably will. But they still aren't sure things like Cano, or even Pedroia. It was only 2012 that both of them were awful...
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Post by burythehammer on Jan 22, 2014 15:35:55 GMT -5
"They don't have an All-Star at every position! That approach never works!" They barely have replacement level players at 3 IF positions. This is not even remotely true. Look, I'm not saying they're the Big Red Machine, but this idea that we should look at them as suspectly as we look at the Jays or the Orioles is laughable to me.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 22, 2014 15:42:54 GMT -5
They barely have replacement level players at 3 IF positions. This is not even remotely true. Look, I'm not saying they're the Big Red Machine, but this idea that we should look at them as suspectly as we look at the Jays or the Orioles is laughable to me. Brian Roberts: 0.4 - 0.7 WAR Kelly Johnson: 1.1 - 1.4 WAR Derek Jeter: 1.1 - 1.3 WAR And we as Sox fans are bitching about the weakest spot in our lineup at 3B who is projected 2.0 - 2.3. Also keep in mind that there is almost no depth above replacement level at these positions. We could talk about the bullpen next if you want. If the Red Sox constructed their roster like this, I would be screaming my head off about it. What was the point of letting Cano walk? Fiscal sanity? Ha!
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Jan 22, 2014 15:47:26 GMT -5
They barely have replacement level players at 3 IF positions. This is not even remotely true. Look, I'm not saying they're the Big Red Machine, but this idea that we should look at them as suspectly as we look at the Jays or the Orioles is laughable to me. Why laughable? They had serious lineup issues last year. The question is have they addressed them? Have they added new ones? Losing Cano is huge, Mariano as well and the starting pitching is still a question, particularly when they have a staff tat is losing its swing and miss ability while it has potentially the worst infield in history. Laughable? I think it's actually hilarious!
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Post by pokeefe363 on Jan 22, 2014 15:48:11 GMT -5
We can take it even further too considering the age concerns of Sabathia and Kuroda as well as health concerns of Texeira and Ellsbury. Phelps to Tanaka at a best case scenerio is probably a 4 win difference. I saw them as an 80-81 win team, so this doesn't put them over the hump. They really need to add a BP arm and a 2B or 3B.
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Jan 22, 2014 15:49:02 GMT -5
sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mlb/news/20140122/masahiro-tanaka-yankees/Interesting variety of opinions and now I get the schilling comp, at least the low ninetys flat fastball Japanese version. But Tanaka has a remarkable ability to limit the damage that bad pitches or bad choices are causing him. He has a rare ability to almost slow the game down -- when the plan isn't working, he has a remarkable ability to go to the back-up plan before he gets into trouble. Darvish still goes through several games trying to work through and figure out what's wrong. Tanaka makes adjustments probably better than anyone I've ever seen." " He averaged 113.3 pitches a game last year -- three times he threw more than 140 pitches. He has won 30 straight games over two years. He has won three straight Gold Gloves. A few years ago, his slider was the best pitch in Japan, but in recent years, his splitter has developed into his greatest weapon. "His splitter is his plus pitch; his curve is okay -- it'll be usable at the big league level," says a scout. "People compare his slider to [Zack] Greinke's, but it's not as good. Darvish throws a little harder, his release point is closer to the plate. He's more of a control pitcher who finds ways to rise above his stuff. He's closer to [Hiroki] Kuroda than Darvish." " "I wouldn't be surprised if his first season is a serious disappointment because of the adjustments he has to make, but because he'll find a way to fix things, in his second season I think he'll be a monster." I wonder how the post and daily news will handle a serious disappointment...
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 22, 2014 15:51:30 GMT -5
"They don't have an All-Star at every position! That approach never works!" What about not having an above-replacement infielder? Does that approach tend to work?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 22, 2014 16:07:45 GMT -5
Also given the insanity of handing out half a billion dollars, how the hell can anyone say they had an offseason plan that included losing Cano? They are in panic/stupid mode.I actually think it's a good signing for them. They need the talent and they have the money, simple as that.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jan 22, 2014 16:12:02 GMT -5
I think the Redsox are clearly better but the AL East produced 2 playoff spots last year and we may well do it again. And we should include the probability that the Yankees are not done in our analysis. I'm pretty sure they will sign several players even in the next 2-3 weeks. This Tanaka deal has blocked the floodgates.
If we see them signing Tanaka for effectively $175 mil, do you really think they won't address 2nd, DH and 3rd? I mean really? They will sign at least one more reliever but I don't know why they couldn't go with Robertson as closer. And you can get a good DH cheap. If they sign Tanaka for $25 mil a year now, do you really think they won't throw at least $5 mil a year each at 3rd, 2nd and DH? Why wouldn't they? I'm not saying they will at every position but they wanted Infante at close to $30 mil at 2nd. They are not done.
And we forget that they were in it until September last year with Kuroda carrying that team on his back by himself.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 22, 2014 16:14:18 GMT -5
I think the Redsox are clearly better but the AL East produced 2 playoff spots last year and we may well do it again. And we should include the probability that the Yankees are not done in our analysis. I'm pretty sure they will sign several players even in the next 2-3 weeks. This Tanaka deal has blocked the floodgates. If we see them signing Tanaka for effectively $175 mil, do you really think they won't address 2nd, DH and 3rd? I mean really? They will sign at least one more reliever but I don't know why they couldn't go with Robertson as closer. And you can get a good DH cheap. If they sign Tanaka for $25 mil a year now, do you really think they won't throw at least $5 mil a year each at 3rd, 2nd and DH? Why wouldn't they? I'm not saying they will at every position but they wanted Infante at close to $30 mil at 2nd. They are not done. And we forget that they were in it until September last year with Kuroda carrying that team on his back by himself. They already have about 4 DHes. And what 2B and 3B are available when they have almost nothing to trade?
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Post by chavopepe2 on Jan 22, 2014 16:15:26 GMT -5
The Yankees could be excellent. If all of there older players stay healthy and their lack of depth doesn't become an issue, they will be an excellent team.
The problem of course is that they will almost certainly need depth. I would be very surprised if their current infield was able to start 500 games total. That leaves 148 games for... who exactly?
And starting pitching has the same issue. If everything breaks right Sabathia, Kuroda, Tanaka, and Nova will make 110-115 starts. That leaves 50 starts for Pineda and Phelps? What if there is an injury?
And of those eight players you have a 40-year old, a 39-year old, a 37-year old, and two 34-year olds.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 22, 2014 16:15:43 GMT -5
Also given the insanity of handing out half a billion dollars, how the hell can anyone say they had an offseason plan that included losing Cano? They are in panic/stupid mode.I actually think it's a good signing for them. They need the talent and they have the money, simple as that. Leaving those holes at 2b and 3b while having Jeter be the plan at SS is stupid mode. They should have given Cano a blank check for anything else to make sense.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 22, 2014 16:20:22 GMT -5
I actually think it's a good signing for them. They need the talent and they have the money, simple as that. Leaving those holes at 2b and 3b while having Jeter be the plan at SS is stupid mode. They should have given Cano a blank check for anything else to make sense. So what would be smart mode? Should they have just blown everything up after they lost Cano? Regardless of losing Cano, the Yankees are a better team today than they were yesterday and all it cost them was cash, which isn't an issue for them. They're better off having made this move than they would have been not making it.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jan 22, 2014 16:21:25 GMT -5
jmei, I see your point but the collective WAR of the Rays bench might well be effected by the likelihood that their starters are not that much better than some of their bench players, therefore their bench players play more often. And money does help you provide for ideal bench support. It clearly is a factor. It's not like we buy stars to set on the bench but some of our bench guys would start on other teams, i.e. Carp, Gomes...but our bench guys also cost more.
The Rays bench is not bad but they have to have a healthy starting pitching staff and a healthy Longoria or they are out of it. They cannot withstand losing any of those top guys. And sometimes players can just have a down year also, particularly starters. We lost Buchholz most of the year and had the best record in the AL. Pedroia played hurt all year but we still won.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 22, 2014 16:23:00 GMT -5
Leaving those holes at 2b and 3b while having Jeter be the plan at SS is stupid mode. They should have given Cano a blank check for anything else to make sense.So what would be smart mode? Should they have just blown everything up after they lost Cano? Stay under $189 to reset the luxury tax penalty.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 22, 2014 16:24:51 GMT -5
So what would be smart mode? Should they have just blown everything up after they lost Cano? Stay under $189 to reset the luxury tax penalty. I doubt they have any real need to avoid the tax. Being a bad team probably hurts them more financially than the tax ever would. And really, what does getting under the tax threshold buy them? They're not getting back into contention with an inexpensive roster anytime soon so at best they're just avoiding the tax temporarily. What's the point?
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Post by joshv02 on Jan 22, 2014 16:27:00 GMT -5
It's not like we buy stars to set on the bench but some of our bench guys would start on other teams, i.e. Carp, Gomes...but our bench guys also cost more. Carp is a first year arb eligible guy who was essentially a waiver wire pickup last year. Gomes costs more than the average bench player (but not by much), but he is paired with another cheap player (Nava) anyway. Drew would be an expensive bench player, but you are otherwise really just making this up.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 22, 2014 16:27:24 GMT -5
Stay under $189 to reset the luxury tax penalty. I doubt they have any real need to avoid the tax. Being a bad team probably hurts them more financially than the tax ever would. Then they shouldn't have lost a bidding war with the freakin Royals for Infante. They should have gone hard after Uribe. They replaced Cano with nothing. They replaced Arod with nothing. And they're still counting on Jeter at SS.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jan 22, 2014 16:27:31 GMT -5
The Yanks could well sign a starter also. Probably not a Jimenez or a Santana but I could see them signing someone like Garza still. If you are going to blow that kind of cash on Tanaka they probably have a plan. They want to win badly. It's primal. It's something we don't seem to get. They have to win. Losing isn't an option. They will max out the credit card if they have to short term because they want a product capable of winning every year. Anything else is unacceptable to them.
And if this signing doesn't show that I don't know what would.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 22, 2014 16:29:13 GMT -5
I doubt they have any real need to avoid the tax. Being a bad team probably hurts them more financially than the tax ever would. Then they shouldn't have lost a bidding war with the freakin Royals for Infante. They should have gone hard after Uribe. They replaced Cano with nothing. They replaced Arod with nothing. And they're still counting on Jeter at SS. I don't necessarily disagree with any of this, but I still think the Tanaka signing was a good one for them even if their overall offseason has been a mess.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 22, 2014 16:30:32 GMT -5
Then they shouldn't have lost a bidding war with the freakin Royals for Infante. They should have gone hard after Uribe. They replaced Cano with nothing. They replaced Arod with nothing. And they're still counting on Jeter at SS. I don't necessarily disagree with any of this, but I still think the Tanaka signing was a good one for them even if their overall offseason has been a mess. I think signing Tanaka for that much reeks of a panic move because they lost Cano without any plan (or options left) to replace he or Arod.
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Post by burythehammer on Jan 22, 2014 16:31:50 GMT -5
"They don't have an All-Star at every position! That approach never works!" What about not having an above-replacement infielder? Does that approach tend to work? It doesn't, which is why it's a good thing they have three, at least. Yeah they're banking on the stars and scrubs approach, which obviously has the potential to backfire, but it also has the potential to pay off big time, and that's without adding anyone else. So yes, their offseason does mean they're "back" in a sense, although I don't think they really went anywhere, just had injuries and ran bad for a year.
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