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Post by pedey on Oct 2, 2013 19:32:23 GMT -5
Salty has definitely had his best season offensively and defensively this year. With his impending free-agency, it wouldn't be a bad a idea to have a thread on a potential new contract for him.
The catching market this off-season does not offer much besides Brian McCann, and he may require a position change soon. The best option is probably to bring back Salty, as he has done well in the Boston environment. He will require a multi-year deal.
I was thinking maybe a 3-4 year deal in the lines of 25-35 million. That puts it around 9 million per year. Salty likes playing in Boston, and I am sure a lot of us would like him back. The problem is, there is always the chance that Salty falls back into the .220 batting average range with a low OBP, like what he did before 2013.
Any ideas for a new contract for Salty?
Is he eligible for a qualifying offer, and does he get one if the Sox are not interested in bring him back?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 2, 2013 20:26:05 GMT -5
Salty has definitely had his best season offensively and defensively this year. With his impending free-agency, it wouldn't be a bad a idea to have a thread on a potential new contract for him. The catching market this off-season does not offer much besides Brian McCann, and he may require a position change soon. The best option is probably to bring back Salty, as he has done well in the Boston environment. He will require a multi-year deal. I was thinking maybe a 3-4 year deal in the lines of 25-35 million. That puts it around 9 million per year. Salty likes playing in Boston, and I am sure a lot of us would like him back. The problem is, there is always the chance that Salty falls back into the .220 batting average range with a low OBP, like what he did before 2013. Any ideas for a new contract for Salty? Is he eligible for a qualifying offer, and does he get one if the Sox are not interested in bring him back? I doubt that Salty would sign a deal like that. He can probably get 4 years $50 million or something like that on the open market. There isn't much catching to be had and he's younger than most free agent catchers. That makes him pretty valuable to other teams in need of catching. I wouldn't expect him to be thrilled with a 3/$25million or 4/$35 million package. He'll get a qualifying offer from the Sox. No doubt about it, but my guess is that it will be the Sox giving him 4 years and $50 million. |
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Post by tjb21 on Oct 4, 2013 12:23:37 GMT -5
I doubt that Salty would sign a deal like that. He can probably get 4 years $50 million or something like that on the open market. There isn't much catching to be had and he's younger than most free agent catchers. That makes him pretty valuable to other teams in need of catching. I wouldn't expect him to be thrilled with a 3/$25million or 4/$35 million package. He'll get a qualifying offer from the Sox. No doubt about it, but my guess is that it will be the Sox giving him 4 years and $50 million. I don't see him getting that many years/dollars from Boston, especially with the young guys coming up in the system. Think he could re-sign, but I don't think for those amounts. He should get the QO, and it could depress his external market a little. My guess is he signs elsewhere for around your listed price. |
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 5, 2013 14:19:41 GMT -5
I would hope, with our new number of year type policy, we wouldn't go any further than 3 years with Salty. He definitely improved quite a bit this year, but he will never be an elite defensive catcher. The signing of David Ross last off-season, for me, was fantastic. It was way to apparent that we had a lot of trouble with controlling the running game and needed someone, not Lavarnway, who could hit lefties well.
I agree that Salty has improved nicely in some areas, but I do not want to possibly block the 2 kids we have coming (Vasquez and especially Swihart). It certainly is obvious that we won't be able to sign Salty for 1 or 2 years. That was my best choice. But I would like him back for 2014 for sure. Does he get a "qualifying offer"? Are you kidding? Of course he does!
I wish he would be fine with 2 years for $24 million with an option, but probably you are all correct and he will get more years and more guaranteed dollars. It's funny. 3 months ago I was all for trying to sign Brian McCann and I really think, for this club, it is better to stay with the one you have.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 5, 2013 15:34:05 GMT -5
I doubt that Salty would sign a deal like that. He can probably get 4 years $50 million or something like that on the open market. There isn't much catching to be had and he's younger than most free agent catchers. That makes him pretty valuable to other teams in need of catching. I wouldn't expect him to be thrilled with a 3/$25million or 4/$35 million package. He'll get a qualifying offer from the Sox. No doubt about it, but my guess is that it will be the Sox giving him 4 years and $50 million. I don't see him getting that many years/dollars from Boston, especially with the young guys coming up in the system. Think he could re-sign, but I don't think for those amounts. He should get the QO, and it could depress his external market a little. My guess is he signs elsewhere for around your listed price. Could take the young guys awhile to get up to the majors and by young guys I assume we're talking Vazquez, Swihart, and possibly Denney. Vazquez is probably a couple of years away and if he is it's not known if he will be more than a solid backup catcher. They might want him to get his feet wet as Salty's backup and see if he could be the heir apparent. And Swihart was down in A ball. It might not take him 4 years to get to Boston, but it will take him more than 2 most likely. I'd prefer the Sox sign Salty to 3 years but that might not be possible and the Sox don't have a major league ready catcher to step in for 2014 and I think the Sox take the catching position very seriously. The fact that the staff is very comfortable with him makes me think the Sox will go the extra mile for him. We'll see, though. |
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Post by kungfuizzy on Oct 6, 2013 9:22:57 GMT -5
Since the Sox have catchers in the system that will be ready in 2-3 years it does limit the leverage that Salty has with the club. Different scenario than with Varitek where they had zero catching depth. Ideally Swihart comes up by 2015 and is cost controlled for 6 years and Vasquez is his backup. If Salty leaves then I think Vasquez could get a shot to start he played pretty well in the minors, is on the 40 man and by all accounts has pretty solid receiving skills. Don't break the bank on Salty.
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larrycook
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Post by larrycook on Oct 6, 2013 12:09:11 GMT -5
I do not know if the Sox will offer Salty a QO, but I think they take the same approach they have this past off season and stay with the over spending on a short term deal. (3 Years for $40 million range)
With the youngsters it is hard to tell if they will meet any time table as far as being ready for the majors, however if 2015 is Ortiz's final year, then plenty of at bats for the DH open up.
On the other hand with Selig stepping down around then, there could be a new vote on the use of the DH and it could possibly go away.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 6, 2013 15:53:07 GMT -5
I do not know if the Sox will offer Salty a QO, but I think they take the same approach they have this past off season and stay with the over spending on a short term deal. (3 Years for $40 million range) With the youngsters it is hard to tell if they will meet any time table as far as being ready for the majors, however if 2015 is Ortiz's final year, then plenty of at bats for the DH open up. On the other hand with Selig stepping down around then, there could be a new vote on the use of the DH and it could possibly go away. The union would never let the DH be eliminated - less jobs for their players. If anything, I would expect the DH to be adopted in the NL as well. |
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Post by sarasoxer on Oct 6, 2013 17:31:43 GMT -5
Since the Sox have catchers in the system that will be ready in 2-3 years it does limit the leverage that Salty has with the club. Different scenario than with Varitek where they had zero catching depth. Ideally Swihart comes up by 2015 and is cost controlled for 6 years and Vasquez is his backup. If Salty leaves then I think Vasquez could get a shot to start he played pretty well in the minors, is on the 40 man and by all accounts has pretty solid receiving skills. Don't break the bank on Salty. Salty is just coming into his own IMO. He can get better still. If I were the Yankees I would try to sign him and watch him nail 25 bombs & hit .275 in the Stadium. I would also go for Drew & Ellsbury and watch each hit 20 in N.Y. Losing Pettitte, Mariano, Arod, & possibly Kuroda plus others....frees up enough to sign all 3. If they did so, the Yankees could be back in a blink.... and they would not lose a draft pick. No one knows how our minor league catchers will turn out. Give me Salty and a defensive wiz like Vasquez (and his 23 passed balls) and wait for Swihart or someone else in 2-3 years. Sign the guy!!!! |
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Post by jbberlo22 on Oct 6, 2013 18:30:21 GMT -5
they would actually lose 3 draft picks assuming we put qualifiers on each
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Post by sarasoxer on Oct 6, 2013 19:17:24 GMT -5
You are, of course, right, and I was wrong. I was thinking of sandwich picks and no loss of picks for the signing team.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Oct 6, 2013 19:25:41 GMT -5
Since the Sox have catchers in the system that will be ready in 2-3 years it does limit the leverage that Salty has with the club. Different scenario than with Varitek where they had zero catching depth. Ideally Swihart comes up by 2015 and is cost controlled for 6 years and Vasquez is his backup. If Salty leaves then I think Vasquez could get a shot to start he played pretty well in the minors, is on the 40 man and by all accounts has pretty solid receiving skills. Don't break the bank on Salty. Salty is just coming into his own IMO. He can get better still. If I were the Yankees I would try to sign him and watch him nail 25 bombs & hit .275 in the Stadium. I would also go for Drew & Ellsbury and watch each hit 20 in N.Y. Losing Pettitte, Mariano, Arod, & possibly Kuroda plus others....frees up enough to sign all 3. If they did so, the Yankees could be back in a blink.... and they would not lose a draft pick. No one knows how our minor league catchers will turn out. Give me Salty and a defensive wiz like Vasquez (and his 23 passed balls) and wait for Swihart or someone else in 2-3 years. Sign the guy!!!! Do we really still have teh irrational Yankee fear? You said it yourself, the Yankees could lose Rivera, Pettitte, and Kuroda...what does their pitching staff look like exactly? I'd love to see them spend big for Ellsbury, Salty, and Drew...good luck signing Cano, patching together a rotation and bullpen and staying under the luxury tax. |
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Post by Oregon Norm on Oct 6, 2013 22:37:38 GMT -5
... Do we really still have the irrational Yankee fear? You said it yourself, the Yankees could lose Rivera, Pettitte, and Kuroda...what does their pitching staff look like exactly? I'd love to see them spend big for Ellsbury, Salty, and Drew...good luck signing Cano, patching together a rotation and bullpen and staying under the luxury tax. U betcha... And what are you doing injecting logic into the dark recesses of Sox fandom's conciousness? Next thing you know you'll be adding up what it will cost to get all those pieces - existing and new - in place just so they can compete in the division. By the way, I agree completely that pitching is going to be their greatest need. I don't think they'll give Hughes a sniff if he wants to be a starter and that leaves them with some big holes to fill. The A-(Rod) bomb unleashed yesterday brings at least a little uncertainty, but even without him, where's that money going to come from if they're serious about the cap? Cano is going to cost a New York arm and leg, and the bleacher creatures will have Cashman repelling out his office window to escape them if he doesn't re-sign. Then you're going to tack on, what, 12 million for Salty, probably more for Drew, and 20+ million for Ellsbury?? Last time I checked Sabathia, Teixeira were still on the books. Even without Rodriguez, they start with $63 million in obligations, and that's without including any of the salaries they'll shell out for arb guys like Robertson, Nova and Gardner. Now throw in that 25+ mill for Cano, and the ex-Sox players, and you're probably up near $135 million. How about Suzuki and Soriano? That's another 10 million and no pitching help yet outside of C.C. and he looks like he might have gotten over-worked. This certainly isn't going to help that situation. Now throw in the 3B, 1B, LF - those power guys everybody talks about - and find yourself three more starting pitchers while you're at it. Oh, and do all that while paying your arb guys and keeping it under $40 million. The team has been good with reclamation projects but man did they look old this year. And this isn't the MLB of 10 or even 5 years ago. Those days are gone. You can blow up what's left of your draft hopes if you're not careful and that is the future these days. The MFY have always been creative, and the have the best financial talent in the world to help them comb through the rules and pick the locks. But they are really between a rock and a hard spot. |
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 7, 2013 5:44:54 GMT -5
The MFY have always been creative, and the have the best financial talent in the world to help them comb through the rules and pick the locks. But they are really between a rock and a hard spot. I think a lot of folks are unaware that the Yankees were the most over-performing team in baseball this year, in terms of wins versus underlying numbers. According to BP, their hitting and pitching stats project to a record of 71 - 91. |
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larrycook
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Post by larrycook on Oct 7, 2013 7:25:34 GMT -5
The MFY have always been creative, and the have the best financial talent in the world to help them comb through the rules and pick the locks. But they are really between a rock and a hard spot. I think a lot of folks are unaware that the Yankees were the most over-performing team in baseball this year, in terms of wins versus underlying numbers. According to BP, their hitting and pitching stats project to a record of 71 - 91.And they get Textiera back next year. No doubt that considering the talent on hand,the Yankees over preformed. I see them picking up a free agent starter to replace Pettit but I do not see Sabathia ever being the force he was before. He has too many innings on that shoulder. He is still above average, but not dominant. At the end of the day, the Yankees will be back in the playoff hunt next season, as will Baltimore and Tampa Bay. What we have to do is take care of our own roster and continue to develop depth from the minors. We were the best fastball hitting team in baseball this past year, but were extremely vulnerable to off speed junk ballers. How does Ben fix one without hurting the other? Or does he really need to fix how we do against the soft tossers? Does Salty deserve a new shiny multi-year contract, absolutely, but I bet Ben keeps in shorter and over pays on a per year basis. |
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Post by brianthetaoist on Oct 7, 2013 8:06:39 GMT -5
Feels odd to say this, but in a way, Salty is the Sox most important free agent. Ellsbury's a much better player, but there's a replacement in house already in JBJ (not saying JBJ's as good as Ellsbury, but he's quite likely to be a major league-caliber center fielder next year). Drew's a good player, but he's all but expendable with Xander. Napoli doesn't have a replacement in the organization, but there are quite a few decent 1B out there to be had.
But there's no replacement for Salty on the horizon, really. Lavarnway doesn't look to be a starting catcher, at least the Sox don't seem to trust him to be one (yet). Vasquez is still at least a couple of years away, and who knows if he'll hit enough. And Swihart isn't really a factor since even a 4 year deal wouldn't block him in any significant way.
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 7, 2013 8:35:57 GMT -5
The QO is going to kill Salty's market, if last year is any indication of things. It will also kill Drew and Napoli. I expect Salty will be back on a 3 year deal at about 10 -12 per. Another team would have to be willing to beat that and surrender a draft pick. Being realistic, unless the market takes a big turn since last year it's not likely teams will do that. So far, teams have treated their draft picks (bonus pool $$) like gold.
Now this is a new system so it's hard to definitively declare trends have taken hold, but the early indications are players like Salty, Drew and Napoli could get screwed with the new system. Conversely, that could actually help a guy like Jacoby get more $$ ANC it certainly helped A guy like Victorino getting more cash. Sadly, lessor players may make more money because they don't have draft picks tied to them.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Oct 7, 2013 9:54:16 GMT -5
Anyone who's counting on minor league catchers to rise rapidly and slip right into the major league lineup should look at the great stats Salty put up at ages 20-22 in A+, AA, and MLB, and then think about how long it took him to become a decent offensive performer in MLB: www.thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?P=jarrod-saltalamacchia |
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Post by okin15 on Oct 7, 2013 10:56:44 GMT -5
There really ought to be multiple levels of QO's like in football, with 10 mil being for a 2nd rounder, and 18 mil for a first. Not that I'm complaining... this year, but it's a disaster for the players.
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 7, 2013 11:05:01 GMT -5
I believe its critical to offer Salty a QO at a minimum, and hopefully try to sign him to a longer deal (3 yrs.?). Our prospects will not be ready for full time ML action for two years and there is a dearth of free agent catchers on the market. This year Salty has shown dramatic improvement both offensively and handling of pitchers. He could well be beginning his prime years.
I'm not comfortable going into 2014 with Ross and Lavarnway as our tandem. Salty may very well turn down the QO but at least we'd get a pick. Somebody will sign him to a sizeable contract despite the loss of the pick.
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Post by elguapo on Oct 7, 2013 12:15:50 GMT -5
All of the players with QOs last season ended up signing lucrative deals.
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 7, 2013 19:07:19 GMT -5
All of the players with QOs last season ended up signing lucrative deals. There weren't too many to begin with but they hurt the market value of the non top tier guys. Bourne is a perfect example. And people fell into the saber metric crap that said Upton was a great player. Atlanta also probably signed him to make his brother happy. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 7, 2013 19:13:55 GMT -5
All of the players with QOs last season ended up signing lucrative deals. Lucrative is an arbitrary word too.. It affected the suitor of Bourne, Laroche, Soriano, Swisherand Lohse big time. Kuroda is unique circumstance. |
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Post by Oregon Norm on Oct 7, 2013 21:04:41 GMT -5
All of the players with QOs last season ended up signing lucrative deals. There weren't too many to begin with but they hurt the market value of the non top tier guys. Bourne is a perfect example. And people fell into the saber metric crap that said Upton was a great player. Atlanta also probably signed him to make his brother happy. You don't know what you're talking about. Upton's splits were so bad - and I think that qualifies as quantitative information - that quite a few of us were skeptical about who he really is as a hitter. As to why Atlanta did the deal sabrmetric or otherwise, I have no idea. But if they did bother to check out those numbers, they would have come to the same conclusion: he was a very different hitter in the thin air of Phoenix than he was elsewhere. That "crap" was a good way to evaluate his actual worth. |
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 8, 2013 5:18:18 GMT -5
There weren't too many to begin with but they hurt the market value of the non top tier guys. Bourne is a perfect example. And people fell into the saber metric crap that said Upton was a great player. Atlanta also probably signed him to make his brother happy. You don't know what you're talking about. Upton's splits were so bad - and I think that qualifies as quantitative information - that quite a few of us were skeptical about who he really is as a hitter. As to why Atlanta did the deal sabrmetric or otherwise, I have no idea. But if they did bother to check out those numbers, they would have come to the same conclusion: he was a very different hitter in the thin air of Phoenix than he was elsewhere. That "crap" was a good way to evaluate his actual worth. I believe he was talking about signing B.J., not trading for Justin. But, yeah, the notion that B.J., with his .298 OBP in his walk year, was some kind of sabermetric darling is so out of touch with reality as to qualify as some sort of hallucination. It's like walking out of Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen and railing at all the film critics who proclaimed Michael Bay as an auteur. |
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