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Post by p23w on Nov 23, 2013 1:31:21 GMT -5
Not interested in Matt Kemp at all. Hope Cherrington has no interest as well.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 23, 2013 10:50:19 GMT -5
Cecchini is coming to Fenway in 2014... Late 2014
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Post by jdb on Nov 23, 2013 11:54:30 GMT -5
Peterson would be great but I doubt they trade him this offseason unless its a Price type player coming back. He's probably a year away but he just seems like he would be a great fit playing RF for us. Good OBP, speed and could be a 20 HR type.
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Post by ikonos on Nov 23, 2013 13:58:52 GMT -5
I think dodgers could seriously consider eating money and moving ethier/kemp+prospects like pederson for price. On the Sox side would Dempster/Peavy + RDLR/Webster get Kemp + some money? I think Kemp in LF, Bradley in Center with Nava/Carp manning 1B and Gomes/Nava giving days off to Kemp/Victorino would work well.
Edit: But then signing Beltran for 3-4yrs could serve the same purpose far more cheaply.
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Post by redsox1534 on Nov 23, 2013 13:59:10 GMT -5
Could give up a top ten prospect along with Dempster and a couple other smaller parts for Kemp and 30 mill and Im very interested. We need another middle of the order guy to go with Papi now and Bogaerts later just needs to be the right player at the right price.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 23, 2013 14:14:11 GMT -5
Kemp is not a salary/ clear outfield space dump. Dempster probably doesn't even interest the Dodgers and one top 100 guy isn't getting Kemp.
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Post by jmei on Nov 23, 2013 14:55:39 GMT -5
The Dodgers don't desperately need salary space and Kemp still has plenty of upside. Given that, he won't be a pure salary dump. Not sure the Red Sox like him enough to both take a significant portion of his salary and give up value in return, so I don't see much of a match here.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 24, 2013 0:54:18 GMT -5
It all depends really. Depends on what they'd have to give up. If Kemp doesn't fully recover from his injury is he really for the money that much better than Nava/Gomes in LF? I'm assuming he can't play CF. I wouldn't want to see him in RF with Victorino in CF - as Ben C is saying Victorino is the RF, so he wouldn't replace Ellsbury. From Cot's: 13:$20M, 14:$21M, 15:$21M, 16-19:$21.5M annually The question asked earlier was how much the Dodgers would be willing to eat. They'd have to eat a lot to bring it anywhere into the realm of possibility for the Sox, I believe. At a little less than four times the money, Kemp was worth 1.2 offensive wins above replacement, while Gomes and Nava together produced 4.5. Look at those salaries he's due. Without some idea of what condition his shoulder is in, that's a very costly gamble. Kemp was a great player, and maybe he'll be back to something like that sometime in the future. Maybe. But at $20/year, who's going to take that risk?
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 24, 2013 11:25:59 GMT -5
The one thing I will say about Matt Kemp is, star players only become available like this if it's a small market team who cannot afford him or if there is some black mark against him that the acquiring team has to read and make a good call on. Think Miguel Cabrera with his off field and commitment issues.
Teams probably have one chance at this. If Kemp comes back healthy and dominates like we've seen before, he's not going on the market again.
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Post by soxfan06 on Nov 26, 2013 0:16:03 GMT -5
You just quite simply don't get a shot at someone who can give you 30 HRs and 300/370/520 without there being some risk or without paying 10 years, $200+ million.
I think it is a good risk. We don't have any prospects in the minors coming any time soon to take that LF spot and Kemp will likely never be this cheap again.
Think about it, that is the exact same strategy we used to get Victorino and Napoli and Kemp is younger. Sure he is more expensive, but his ceiling is much higher than either of those guys.
He is the potential power RH bat we have been looking for since Manny left. Ortiz is going to be here for much longer, we need to think long term too.
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Post by jmei on Nov 26, 2013 0:32:26 GMT -5
You just quite simply don't get a shot at someone who can give you 30 HRs and 300/370/520 without there being some risk or without paying 10 years, $200+ million. .321/.376/.552, 32 HRs, 39 SBs
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Post by soxfan06 on Nov 26, 2013 10:46:08 GMT -5
You just quite simply don't get a shot at someone who can give you 30 HRs and 300/370/520 without there being some risk or without paying 10 years, $200+ million. .321/.376/.552, 32 HRs, 39 SBs At this point, Ellsbury is going to cost more than $40 million more than Kemp. It's not a fair comparison between the two. I'd love to have Ells back, but there is no way he would ever consider 5 year, $100 million. So we move onto the next option. I get it, it probably isn't going to happen. But now is the time to make said trade, we have the prospect depth and will be able to add to it even more this offseason by getting 3 more top picks. We have guys like Mookie Betts, blocked by Pedroia, and an cabinet full of top pitching prospects who are expendable because there isn't going to be room on the roster anytime soon for all of them.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Nov 26, 2013 12:17:21 GMT -5
.321/.376/.552, 32 HRs, 39 SBs At this point, Ellsbury is going to cost more than $40 million more than Kemp. It's not a fair comparison between the two. I'd love to have Ells back, but there is no way he would ever consider 5 year, $100 million. So we move onto the next option. I get it, it probably isn't going to happen. But now is the time to make said trade, we have the prospect depth and will be able to add to it even more this offseason by getting 3 more top picks. We have guys like Mookie Betts, blocked by Pedroia, and an cabinet full of top pitching prospects who are expendable because there isn't going to be room on the roster anytime soon for all of them. Isn't Kemp owed about $130m over 6 years? Unless I'm reading it wrong that's the information on Cots. Where is this 5/100m figure coming from?
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Post by pedroelgrande on Nov 26, 2013 13:18:42 GMT -5
If Ellsbury hits more than 15 HRs ever in his life again I'll eat a sack of crows.
Unless he signst with the MFYs because I can hit 15 Hr in that stadium hitting lefty.
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Post by bettsonmookie on Nov 26, 2013 17:48:41 GMT -5
You just quite simply don't get a shot at someone who can give you 30 HRs and 300/370/520 without there being some risk or without paying 10 years, $200+ million. I think it is a good risk. We don't have any prospects in the minors coming any time soon to take that LF spot and Kemp will likely never be this cheap again. Think about it, that is the exact same strategy we used to get Victorino and Napoli and Kemp is younger. Sure he is more expensive, but his ceiling is much higher than either of those guys. He is the potential power RH bat we have been looking for since Manny left. Ortiz is going to be here for much longer, we need to think long term too. Hello SP Community, First time poster and long time loyal reader/admirer of the knowledgeable and passionate discussions that take place here. I've been captivated by the potential of a Kemp acquisition, and want to mention a few thoughts as well as gauge the boards sentiments on the Kemp possibility. With the current rate of player salary inflation from all the new TV revenue, I think Kemp's price tag moving forward might not be all that high relative to comparable players around the league. If Jayson Werth can get 18M per with a good walk year performance, I think an AAV of 20 for a player with Kemp's upside is more than reasonable, especially if salaries keep going up the way they are. The key, IMO, will be how durable teams think he is, but if misguided injury memory bias on the Dodgers FO's part gives this team a chance to add a player of Kemp's caliber without giving up equivalent young talent, I think BC will pull the trigger. The Sox have money to spend, and I have a feeling they're going to flex that muscle in one way or another. My questions for the community are: -If acquired, where do you think realistically Farrell would play him everyday? -If the Sox took on Kemp's entire contract, what type of package do you think the Dodgers would want in exchange? -What's the word on his mental makeup/character/clubhouse leadership? Go Sox. Go SP. Betts on Mookie
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,936
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 4, 2013 10:44:46 GMT -5
The Dodgers don't desperately need salary space and Kemp still has plenty of upside. Given that, he won't be a pure salary dump. Not sure the Red Sox like him enough to both take a significant portion of his salary and give up value in return, so I don't see much of a match here. And a week later (a month ago now), Jeff Sullivan at FanGraphs made a strong case that there's no match for anyone.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 5, 2013 16:24:15 GMT -5
How about something like this:
Kemp + 12 million (2 mil each year 2015-2019)
for
Dempster + Betts + Nava/Carp
Red Sox still have room to add a OF/1B bat/glove with less redundancy than Nava/Carp. And they get the potential big bat LF they need while not increasing their payroll by more than 7 mil.
Dodgers get useful SP depth (with success in the NL) who can be a good RP in that stadium, they get a good 4th OF and strong pinch hitter and a 2B of the future.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 6, 2013 20:25:37 GMT -5
Where do Nava or Carp play for the Dodgers?
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 6, 2013 20:25:59 GMT -5
Or Dempster...
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 7, 2013 14:46:05 GMT -5
Where do Nava or Carp play for the Dodgers? Try reading the post maybe?
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Post by mattpicard on Dec 7, 2013 17:59:05 GMT -5
Where do Nava or Carp play for the Dodgers? Try reading the post maybe? He has a point. Trading Kemp in that scenario would leave the Dodgers with Ethier, Crawford, Puig, Baxter, and one of Carp or Nava as their outfielders. That's 4 lefties (if we consider Nava a lefty since he can really only hit righties well) and one RHH in Puig. There's no legitimate center fielder in that group and Ethier should really just be a platoon player - he mashes righties and is horrific against lefties - but Nava and Carp are only valuable against righties as well. Baxter and Crawford have shown mighty platoon splits themselves recently. A-Gon is obviously going to be the everyday starter at first. Basically, with the glut of left handed outfielders and none of them being real center fielders, I don't see how Nava or Carp (hardly even an outfielder, really) make sense for the Dodgers, even in a bench role.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 7, 2013 18:50:00 GMT -5
Try reading the post maybe? He has a point. Trading Kemp in that scenario would leave the Dodgers with Ethier, Crawford, Puig, Baxter, and one of Carp or Nava as their outfielders. That's 4 lefties (if we consider Nava a lefty since he can really only hit righties well) and one RHH in Puig. There's no legitimate center fielder in that group and Ethier should really just be a platoon player - he mashes righties and is horrific against lefties - but Nava and Carp are only valuable against righties as well. Baxter and Crawford have shown mighty platoon splits themselves recently. A-Gon is obviously going to be the everyday starter at first. Basically, with the glut of left handed outfielders and none of them being real center fielders, I don't see how Nava or Carp (hardly even an outfielder, really) make sense for the Dodgers, even in a bench role. That's true that it is very lefty heavy- but i think you give him far too much credit for making a useful post. Posts like the ones above by rip313jr should never be defended unless there is a friend/fanboy trying to pitch in. They add nothing to the discussion and make us all less intelligent just for having to scroll past them. I have a feeling that the Dodgers will hold onto Kemp and only be serious about trading Ethier as he is the only player stable enough to realistically bring a fair return. But that isn't the point of my post - the point is to show that there is the potential to add to both teams IF the Dodgers are motivated to move Kemp. But unless you see Baxter as a legit 4th OF on a contending club - what is your point? (to be honest i knew little-to-nothing about Baxter prior to be post, so I looked him up and from what I can tell he is essentially a non-starter for this issue - please educate e though if I am incorrect). I do get the lefty/right issues but there is still another bench spot to be filled by the Dodgers which likely makes this issues moot.
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Post by mattpicard on Dec 7, 2013 18:56:33 GMT -5
He has a point. Trading Kemp in that scenario would leave the Dodgers with Ethier, Crawford, Puig, Baxter, and one of Carp or Nava as their outfielders. That's 4 lefties (if we consider Nava a lefty since he can really only hit righties well) and one RHH in Puig. There's no legitimate center fielder in that group and Ethier should really just be a platoon player - he mashes righties and is horrific against lefties - but Nava and Carp are only valuable against righties as well. Baxter and Crawford have shown mighty platoon splits themselves recently. A-Gon is obviously going to be the everyday starter at first. Basically, with the glut of left handed outfielders and none of them being real center fielders, I don't see how Nava or Carp (hardly even an outfielder, really) make sense for the Dodgers, even in a bench role. That's true that it is very lefty heavy- but i think you give him far too much credit for making a useful post. Posts like the ones above by rip313jr should never be defended unless there is a friend/fanboy trying to pitch in. They add nothing to the discussion and make us all less intelligent just for having to scroll past them. I have a feeling that the Dodgers will hold onto Kemp and only be serious about trading Ethier as he is the only player stable enough to realistically bring a fair return. But that isn't the point of my post - the point is to show that there is the potential to add to both teams IF the Dodgers are motivated to move Kemp. But unless you see Baxter as a legit 4th OF on a contending club - what is your point? (to be honest i knew little-to-nothing about Baxter prior to be post, so I looked him up and from what I can tell he is essentially a non-starter for this issue - please educate e though if I am incorrect). I do get the lefty/right issues but there is still another bench spot to be filled by the Dodgers which likely makes this issues moot. Haha, I mean all I'm saying is his question of where Carp/Nava would play is valid. Ethier scorches the ball against righties, Crawford can still be a dynamic player against them, and Puig is Puig. It only makes sense to give the former two the majority of their off days versus lefties - and it really does make sense to give them an ample amount of days off against them - and Puig is going to play as many games as possible. When looking at a return for Kemp, you're not going to want players who don't provide that punch against lefties at all, let alone lack the capability to play Kemp's current position. Baxter shouldn't matter much - I just mentioned him to show that they have yet another left handed bat hanging around. Just because they have another non-OF bench spot doesn't alleviate this lefty/righty issue at all. If they want to put out a good lineup consistently, they're not going to want Ethier in there against lefties. Accordingly, you want someone who provides a significant upgrade over Ethier against lefties. Nava, Carp, and Baxter aren't that person.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 7, 2013 21:26:09 GMT -5
Haha, I mean all I'm saying is his question of where Carp/Nava would play is valid. Ethier scorches the ball against righties, Crawford can still be a dynamic player against them, and Puig is Puig. It only makes sense to give the former two the majority of their off days versus lefties - and it really does make sense to give them an ample amount of days off against them - and Puig is going to play as many games as possible. When looking at a return for Kemp, you're not going to want players who don't provide that punch against lefties at all, let alone lack the capability to play Kemp's current position. Baxter shouldn't matter much - I just mentioned him to show that they have yet another left handed bat hanging around. Just because they have another non-OF bench spot doesn't alleviate this lefty/righty issue at all. If they want to put out a good lineup consistently, they're not going to want Ethier in there against lefties. Accordingly, you want someone who provides a significant upgrade over Ethier against lefties. Nava, Carp, and Baxter aren't that person. Of i answer this in the initial post - then NO - the question is invalid. AGAIN - please read the initial post. If your point is that the Dodgers should receive a righty bat in exchange for Kemp, in any trade, then I can see your point as they are (as we have both mentioned) lefty heavy). But please don't defend a poorly thought out post. If the requirement for a OF trade with the Dodgers is a RH OF bat, then clearly the Red Sox are in no way a fit. The overall chances of a trade are slim - but I think that the Dodgers are benefited by having both a LHH and RHH on their bench (and IMO they don't have either unless one of their 4 OF are in a backup/platoon role).
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Post by elguapo on Dec 9, 2013 13:08:03 GMT -5
Silly discussion without knowing - and understanding - his medicals. But this is the trade forum! Let's say he's reasonably healthy.
So I'm comfortable trading Middlebrooks for Kemp if the Dodgers go halvsies on Kemp's salary. Dodgers turn a liability into a third baseman for 6 years in his prime at a reasonable salary ($10.5M + min/arb), Sox get a LF for 6 years of decline at reasonable salary.
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