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Post by spiceman86 on Dec 10, 2013 9:59:33 GMT -5
Assuming Kemp is fully healthy (now), tell me why this deal doesn't work for both teams:
Sox Get: Kemp and $14 M
LAD Get: Jackie Bradley Jr., Franklin Morales, either Deven Marrero or Mookie Betts, and either Anthony Ranaudo or Brandon Workman
Thus, the Dodgers get a solid CF prospect to replace Kemp, another reliever (which they claim to be looking for) and two more solid prospects to add to their system. This also frees up a good amount of money and restocks their farm so they can make a run at trading for (and extending) David Price.
Again, if Kemp is healthy, the Sox get an elite right-handed power bat to add to their OF and bat 3rd at a reasonable cost ($19 M/ season). Kemp was very durable until the end of the 2012 season and last year so its not like he's got a complete injury history to worry about. The price in prospects is reasonable as they won't need Bradley Jr with Kemp locked up for 6 years and with Pedroia and Bogaerts locked up for a while they won't need Betts or Marrero either. Workman and Ranaudo are solid B level prospects and Morales is a surplus bullpen arm now with the recent additions Cherington has made to the pen.
I know the Sox won't do this deal because they are now so against giving anyone more than 2 year deals, but if LA would accept such deal or something similar without requiring Bogaerts, then the Sox are stupid not to do it.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 10, 2013 10:31:56 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 11, 2013 7:07:11 GMT -5
Sox are reportedly out. Hopefully we can mercifully let this die now.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 6, 2014 17:51:25 GMT -5
Now that Kemp had a pretty good offensive year, most of which came after a switch to LF, do you think: a. the Red Sox should trade for him b. he would be content to stick to LF (and perhaps move to 1B down the road)?
Based on needs - I would think a trade starting with Tazawa would make sense. Dodgers would get a 'help me now' piece they very much need and the Red Sox get a middle-of-the-order bat. He's a RHH, which doesn't help that issue, but I don't see a better bat walking through the door this offseason and with his strong arm and horrible range in Fenway for 50% of the games, I would expect his defensive value to increase greatly.
How much money do the Dodger eat? What else would it take?
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 6, 2014 17:55:10 GMT -5
No, and they aren't trading him.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Nov 6, 2014 18:01:45 GMT -5
If all it took was Tazawa, I'd be tempted. But his injury history and that salary are just too concerning.
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Post by larrycook on Nov 6, 2014 19:25:26 GMT -5
The Dodgers appear willing to trade eithier and willing to eat some salary.
He appears to be a guy in need of A new team. Not sure what he has left in the tank though.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 6, 2014 21:00:20 GMT -5
No, and they aren't trading him. Do you have a source? All I have seen against this is Peter Gammons - who doesn't seem to have the best industry sources these days. Dave Cameron recently stated: I can't imagine them trading Puig or Pederson and Ethier is next to impossible to trade (plus they have a good platoon partner for him already). That leaves Kemp and Crawford - Crawford may be more likely, but what if they were to trade both for bullpen help and a SS and use the money to sign Scherzer? Tazawa + Marrero for Kemp + 8mil? Source: www.fangraphs.com/blogs/dave-cameron-fangraphs-chat-11514/
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Post by larrycook on Nov 6, 2014 22:20:41 GMT -5
What do we really know about kemp's physical condition.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 6, 2014 23:19:57 GMT -5
Just in terms of allocation of resources, Kemp doesn't make sense for the Red Sox. They have several corner outfielders who are paid pretty well with a shot to be pretty good. This isn't a situation like Heyward or Upton, near-elite players who a team should always at least investigate. Boston has glaring needs at third base and on the mound. Dealing for Kemp doesn't make them significantly better while seriously impacting the available resources to deal with those needs.
That isn't meant to be a shot at Kemp. A team with a need in the outfield, like the Rangers, should certainly at least consider him for a corner spot. He just doesn't fit what Boston needs to do.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 7, 2014 0:39:12 GMT -5
Just in terms of allocation of resources, Kemp doesn't make sense for the Red Sox. They have several corner outfielders who are paid pretty well with a shot to be pretty good. This isn't a situation like Heyward or Upton, near-elite players who a team should always at least investigate. Boston has glaring needs at third base and on the mound. Dealing for Kemp doesn't make them significantly better while seriously impacting the available resources to deal with those needs. That isn't meant to be a shot at Kemp. A team with a need in the outfield, like the Rangers, should certainly at least consider him for a corner spot. He just doesn't fit what Boston needs to do. I agree with you that he shouldn't be the priority (SP and 3B are #1 and 2) and that deals involving other OFers would need to be on the table in order for it to make sense, but I guess we differ on the valuation of Kemp. I value Heyward over him but would put him on par with Upton. Last year he got off to a brutal start, yet finished with superior offensive numbers to either of those guys. If it weren't for the Green Monster to cover up his OF range, I wouldn't be as intrigued by the idea.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 7, 2014 9:45:53 GMT -5
Kemp is close to Manny bad in the field at this point. And we don't need a DH.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 7, 2014 10:16:42 GMT -5
Would Cespedes agree to play RF if Kemp is acquired? Doubt it. And that would create a further logjam with Victorino being paid $13m next year, unless you can move him, which is also doubtful.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 7, 2014 11:14:45 GMT -5
Kemp is close to Manny bad in the field at this point. And we don't need a DH. No he isn't. He was an awful center fielder this year but he's adequate in a corner. Why do you insist on lumping every outfielder who isn't great to ones who are historically bad?
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 7, 2014 11:35:21 GMT -5
Kemp is close to Manny bad in the field at this point. And we don't need a DH. No he isn't. He was an awful center fielder this year but he's adequate in a corner. Why do you insist on lumping every outfielder who isn't great to ones who are historically bad? The stats don't say that. Granted he hasn't played enough since the injuries to normalize, but they aren't looking good with a UZR/150 of -40.3 in LF and -8.8 in RF. And I wish I could remember where I read the article about how his range has been devastated because of the lack of a first step caused by the microfracture surgeries. Then you can look at Inside Edge, which I normally don't hold in high regard but it's better than nothing when data is lacking. And see that he only made 73.3% of 60-90% likely plays and 57% of 40-60% even plays. These are all stats that are worse than Jonny Gomes'.
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Post by mattpicard on Nov 7, 2014 11:48:41 GMT -5
He's certainly better than Gomes and Manny, but he's still pretty bad. I remember watching him this year in left field, and he looked like he could barely move. He was noticeably better in right, though, and considering he can still throw a bit, he's not that bad there, especially if he's not in a particularly expansive outfield.
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Post by jmei on Nov 7, 2014 14:16:05 GMT -5
Kemp is legitimately bad, even in a corner spot. He's always taken terrible routes, but back when he was younger, he at least had the athleticism to ameliorate it somewhat (though it is still a joke that he managed to win a couple Gold Gloves). Now that he's lost a lot of that speed and quickness, I legitimately think he's well below-average, even in a corner spot. He's still got the arm for RF, but his poor defense (and baserunning) puts a big dent in his overall value.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 7, 2014 22:11:17 GMT -5
Kemp is legitimately bad, even in a corner spot. He's always taken terrible routes, but back when he was younger, he at least had the athleticism to ameliorate it somewhat (though it is still a joke that he managed to win a couple Gold Gloves). Now that he's lost a lot of that speed and quickness, I legitimately think he's well below-average, even in a corner spot. He's still got the arm for RF, but his poor defense (and baserunning) puts a big dent in his overall value. In case anyone else was wondering: a·me·lio·rate??m?ly??r?t/Submit verb make (something bad or unsatisfactory) better. "the reform did much to ameliorate living standards"
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Post by izzy on Nov 7, 2014 23:16:31 GMT -5
It's scary to think that a year ago the price for Kemp would have involved Mookie (shudders).
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Post by larrycook on Nov 10, 2014 0:46:45 GMT -5
It's scary to think that a year ago the price for Kemp would have involved Mookie (shudders). That's why I am very concerned when I see margot included in mock trades.
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