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Post by jimed14 on Apr 4, 2014 6:25:57 GMT -5
Salem is at 115ish? jk, I'm sure they didn't rank that far.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 4, 2014 6:38:09 GMT -5
Salem's pitching staff is pretty solid. Easy to get spoiled looking at the rest of the organization, but that team has a half-dozen guys I could see pitching in the majors. Not every organization has that from its weakest affiliate.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 4, 2014 6:43:03 GMT -5
Salem's pitching staff is pretty solid. Easy to get spoiled looking at the rest of the organization, but that team has a half-dozen guys I could see pitching in the majors. Not every organization has that from its weakest affiliate. Yeah, I know. I have no idea what the position players are like, but I hope they at least don't kill the pitchers defensively.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,936
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Post by ericmvan on Apr 4, 2014 22:44:17 GMT -5
Enjoy the high organizational rankings (e.g., #2 at BA) while you can, because the position player talent at Salem and Greenville is kind of terrifyingly thin.
It's not just that Margot, Rijo, and Lin are the only prospects, but that the only failed prospects are Vinicio, Weems, Blair, and Dent (too old for his level now) and the only other guys not too old for their level are Tavarez, Loya, Asauaje, and (on the bench) Gragnani, Guerrero, Kapstein, Escobar, and Coste. The age-appropriate guys are actually outnumbered by the 15 guys who are basically high-minors guys who aren't good enough to play there. (And yeah, I'm counting Chester in that group).
It's a very strange disparity compared to Pawtucket and Portland, of course.
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Post by moonstone2 on Apr 5, 2014 10:48:38 GMT -5
I think part of that Eric is because of the new system. Their 1st two picks last year were pitchers. The year before that it was two college players one pitcher.
Under the old system they would have likely signed Ryan Boldt who would have likely been in Greenville. They also might have taken another big money high school position player in 2012.
The Denny situation also adds to the situation you refer to.
With likely fewer picks and less money to throw around, it's going to put more pressure on the farm system.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Apr 5, 2014 11:21:10 GMT -5
I think part of that Eric is because of the new system. Their 1st two picks last year were pitchers. The year before that it was two college players one pitcher. Under the old system they would have likely signed Ryan Boldt who would have likely been in Greenville. They also might have taken another big money high school position player in 2012. The Denny situation also adds to the situation you refer to. With likely fewer picks and less money to throw around, it's going to put more pressure on the farm system. This is absolutely true. There is significantly less margin for error in the draft than there was under the old rules. Under the new rules there isn't the opportunity to sign guys like Middlebrooks, Betts, Cecchini, Rizzo, Lars, Kalish, Brandon Jacobs, Westmoreland, etc. These late round/high bonus players were the foundation of our system for much of the last decade, and that just isn't an option with the current system.
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alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 619
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Post by alnipper on Apr 5, 2014 11:48:03 GMT -5
Our scouting has to find diamonds in the rough. That will be next to impossible over the long haul, unless we have a couple of bad years.
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Post by moonstone2 on Apr 5, 2014 11:54:06 GMT -5
One other thing too, it can be harder to scout a position player. With a pitcher I can see how hard he throws and the command and movement of his pitches.
A good young hitter may not see a good pitch to hit and may not see a decent off speed or breaking pitch. This especially true in the colder regions of the country where a lot of games end up cancelled.
That's how so many teams whiffed on a guy like Mike Trout. He played in the North and likely wasn't able to show teams the true extent of his hitting ability.
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Post by moonstone2 on Apr 5, 2014 12:38:04 GMT -5
Our scouting has to find diamonds in the rough. That will be next to impossible over the long haul, unless we have a couple of bad years. It maybe that the best way to have a top farm system from now on will be to have long periods of futility and hit on the top draft picks. It's obviously easier to build a farm system when you can add Carlos Correa, Mark Appel and Rondon to your system.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 7, 2014 8:28:41 GMT -5
Our scouting has to find diamonds in the rough. That will be next to impossible over the long haul, unless we have a couple of bad years. It maybe that the best way to have a top farm system from now on will be to have long periods of futility and hit on the top draft picks. It's obviously easier to build a farm system when you can add Carlos Correa, Mark Appel and Rondon to your system. Unless baseball is losing talent to other sports because of this new system, then it shouldn't be much more difficult to acquire talent, after the first 3 years of the new system. Theoretically, those unsigned players went to college and will be draft eligible. Sure it spreads the talent out, but you can sign all the big bonuses you want, but you need to put it towards the right players for it to matter. A lot of the later round picks wouldn't have lasted as long under the new system and a lot of guys still would've signed, just for less. Everything adjusts to the market. By the way, why doesn't a team like the Red Sox, just pay higher minor league salaries to top players they want to sign? Lower bonus, higher salary...
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 7, 2014 8:44:31 GMT -5
The minor league salary structure for players on their first pro contracts isn't negotiable. It's set in the CBA.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 7, 2014 9:26:11 GMT -5
Interesting I guess it's no different than limiting bonus money, but it doesn't seem right that this is legal considering they are not members of the union.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 7, 2014 9:32:18 GMT -5
Interesting I guess it's no different than limiting bonus money, but it doesn't seem right that this is legal considering they are not members of the union. And this is precisely the point of the pending lawsuit. I'm intrigued to see how it plays out.
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Post by joshv02 on Apr 7, 2014 12:04:54 GMT -5
The minor league salary structure for players on their first pro contracts isn't negotiable. It's set in the CBA. I don't think that is right. It is set by Major League Rule 3 and the addenda to the MLRs. The Minor League Uniform Player Agreement is not attached to, and is not a part of (or, I think, even mentioned by) the CBA. The ability to "set" minor league salaries by MLB is only for first-year players, too. Rule 3(b)(2) states (emphasis added) " The minimum salary in each season covered by a Minor League Uniform Player Contract shall be the minimum amount established from time to time by the Major League Clubs for each Minor League classification or League." For first year players, however, Rule 3(c)(2) states that MLB will establish the salary. The obvious reason for that is to not circumvent the draft cap-- interesting to note, too, that the Senne complaint is not filed on behalf of anyone who signed after the current draft cap/structure went into effect, so the rules they are dealing with are much more flexible, allowing bonuses to be increased if teams didn't mind having the commissioner's office shake its finger at them. Anyway, the CBA doesn't appear to have much to do with it. If you read the Senne complaint carefully, they are much more circumspect then saying that MLB controls minor league salaries directly with an iron fist. The complaint says "Plaintiffs are informed and believe that MLB and the Commissioner issue minor league salary guidelines for players signed to an initial UPC, and teams deviate very little from these guidelines." That may have been true - and likely was - but it is hedging its bets.
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Post by charliezink16 on Apr 8, 2014 0:05:21 GMT -5
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Post by moonstone2 on Apr 8, 2014 6:23:28 GMT -5
Rjp the new system keeping talent out of the game is a different matter. Personally I would argue that a player who goes to play for a college coach who only cares about his team's short run success will hurt his chances for a pro career.
Under the new system a team cannot sign as many players to over slot bonuses. That will clearly hurt talent acquisition.
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