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6/10 ML Gameday Thread: PawSox at Noon
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Post by Jonathan Singer on Jun 10, 2014 7:52:44 GMT -5
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Post by Jonathan Singer on Jun 10, 2014 8:46:33 GMT -5
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Post by amfox1 on Jun 10, 2014 12:38:32 GMT -5
Tim Britton ?@timbritton 1m Doubront done after 4 2/3 innings and 75 pitches. I counted four pitches at 90+. Tim Britton ?@timbritton 15m Garin Cecchini turns on a ball inside and rips his second Triple-A home run. He'd been in a nasty slump. Ian Cundall ? Ian Cundall 13m Hard line drive HR for Garin Cecchini on a 1-2, 92 mph FB. Pulled hands in and cleared hips early to drive inside FB out to RF. |
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 10, 2014 12:58:26 GMT -5
Cecchini says "Suck it, haters!"
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Post by hammerhead on Jun 10, 2014 16:48:15 GMT -5
What's with these DSL stats? Don't they know that we have superstar in the making in Devers we need to follow?
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 10, 2014 16:58:33 GMT -5
Drake Britton is back.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jun 10, 2014 19:02:11 GMT -5
When should we start treating Brian Johnson as a legit starting pitching prospect? He is chewing up the EL.
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Post by stevedillard on Jun 10, 2014 19:24:50 GMT -5
Is it wrong that I come in from evening chores, and check the minor league updates/box scores before even checking on the Sox vs. Baltimore?
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Jun 10, 2014 19:34:40 GMT -5
Brian 'ya doesn't have to call me Mr.' Johnson doing Brian Johnson things. 2 hits no runs thru 5.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 10, 2014 20:13:51 GMT -5
Is it wrong that I come in from evening chores, and check the minor league updates/box scores before even checking on the Sox vs. Baltimore? Doesn't everybody ? (and today was an interesting day to take that route). Watched most of Doubront before I got tired. Ian is at the game so he should have a better report but, overall for this game and last, Doubront has looked like a soft toss lefty that is relying on his curveball a lot. I'm guessing that he's working on the curve. He also wasn't fooling many batters, had a good BABIP game compared to what could have been. Small thing that I noticed in the two ABs I saw by Mookie. Usually, if you repeat a pitch, he's going to make you pay. They were trying to pitch him inside and low with curves. The second AB, he got a steady feed of inside curves and ended up with an easy out bouncy grounder with the bases loaded. Comment on Johnson but I only saw a little of him today. Johnson (and Ranaudo) are the most consistent pitchers we have. I'm not meaning results, I'm meaning that they look quite similar start to start. In my mind, I view Johnson as a left handed version of Workman with a higher ceiling. For both, they are big and look like future innings eaters. For both their command and control enhances their less than overwhelming pure stuff. For both, they are very good at managing the little batter/pitcher chess match that goes on. I think Johnson is a tad better at every part of that. To me, if Workman is a #4, Johnson is a #3. |
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jun 10, 2014 20:41:52 GMT -5
Devers 1/4, BB, E (3) so yeah there are things to work on...
Also Yohan Aybar debuted going 1/4, 2B
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Post by jchang on Jun 10, 2014 21:50:04 GMT -5
When should we start treating Brian Johnson as a legit starting pitching prospect? He is chewing up the EL. the grade 4 prospects should be considered legit, as they project to be on the 25-man roster, versus the grade 3, who are expected to be up and down guys. But I am thinking he should be grade 5, not 4, projecting to be a 5 starter, with perhaps a ceiling of 4. Johnson also has good stats against both L and R, which helps in being a starter |
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Post by jmei on Jun 10, 2014 21:58:10 GMT -5
I think Brian Johnson's going to be the next Brandon Workman-- an unheralded prospect with no eye-opening tools who nonetheless overachieves because of his well-rounded repertoire and relatively advanced command/pitchability. It might not be in this organization, but he'll make a solid back-end rotation guy.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 10, 2014 22:00:55 GMT -5
I think Brian Johnson's going to be the next Brandon Workman-- an unheralded prospect with no eye-opening tools who nonetheless overachieves because of his well-rounded repertoire and relatively advanced command/pitchability. It might not be in this organization, but he'll make a solid back-end rotation guy. I've seen him several times, we'll have to agree to disagree but I think you are under rating him. ADD: I think he should be in the Ranaudo/Barnes/RDLR/Webster conversation. All with different pluses and minuses but somewhat a pretty equal tier. Time will tell but this is clearly not Keith Couch Felix Doubront LOL. |
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 11, 2014 0:25:35 GMT -5
I think he should be in the Ranaudo/Barnes/RDLR/Webster conversation. All with different pluses and minuses but somewhat a pretty equal tier. Time will tell but this is clearly not Keith Couch.So not the best pitcher ever then. |
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871 
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Post by danr on Jun 11, 2014 1:20:20 GMT -5
The big guy, David Chester, makes his first appearance of the season at Portland and goes 3 for 4. Derrick Gibson is hitting .312 and has added CF as another position.
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Post by jmei on Jun 11, 2014 5:05:16 GMT -5
I think Brian Johnson's going to be the next Brandon Workman-- an unheralded prospect with no eye-opening tools who nonetheless overachieves because of his well-rounded repertoire and relatively advanced command/pitchability. It might not be in this organization, but he'll make a solid back-end rotation guy. I've seen him several times, we'll have to agree to disagree but I think you are under rating him. ADD: I think he should be in the Ranaudo/Barnes/RDLR/Webster conversation. All with different pluses and minuses but somewhat a pretty equal tier. Time will tell but this is clearly not Keith Couch Felix Doubront LOL. Err... do you not think Workman is on that tier? I compared him to Workman, who I think might end up being like the second- or third-best pitcher out of that group-- not sure why you thought that was a knock on Johnson. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 11, 2014 5:35:43 GMT -5
I actually put RDLR on that list by error, I was going for the cluster that is currently on the SoxProspects list.
Since you ended the paragraph with "It might not be in this organization, but he'll make a solid back-end rotation guy" then either I have a higher opinion of Workman than you or else you have a significantly lower opinion of Johnson than Workman.
Me personally, I think that for a career, Workman is slightly below those guys but more likely to achieve his ceiling. I'd give the others a #3, including Johnson and Workman a #3/#4, RDLR a #2/#3, Owens a #2 for realistic levels but pretty much everybody's mileage will differ. Right now of all those people, Barnes is the furthest away
because he's struggling big time with his secondaries.
ADD: Yes, I know I picked a bad day for thinking Workman is slightly behind Ranaudo, Webster and Barnes for a career.
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Post by soxfn24 on Jun 11, 2014 5:39:00 GMT -5
Interesting note: The DSL Reds are listed as the "DSL Rojos" in the Box Score, while the Sox (Medias Rojas, right?) are still listed as the DSL Red Sox.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 11, 2014 5:57:25 GMT -5
Additional thought on Johnson. I'm expecting him to fade in the second half, similar to how Ranaudo faded in the second half last year, for the exact same reason. He's coming off an injury year and didn't get many innings in. He'll be working on arm strength.
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Post by jmei on Jun 11, 2014 6:11:50 GMT -5
I actually put RDLR on that list by error, I was going for the cluster that is currently on the SoxProspects list. Since you ended the paragraph with "It might not be in this organization, but he'll make a solid back-end rotation guy" then either I have a higher opinion of Workman than you or else you have a significantly lower opinion of Johnson than Workman. Me personally, I think that for a career, Workman is slightly below those guys but more likely to achieve his ceiling. I'd give the others a #3, including Johnson and Workman a #3/#4, RDLR a #2/#3, Owens a #2 for realistic levels but pretty much everybody's mileage will differ. Right now of all those people, Barnes is the furthest away because he's struggling big time with his secondaries. ADD: Yes, I know I picked a bad day for thinking Workman is slightly behind Ranaudo, Webster and Barnes for a career. I think you're playing fast and loose with the scouting lingo there. A back-end rotation projection is not supposed to be a knock on a guy, and number three projections should not be handed out like candy. Those guys maybe all have the ceilings you mentioned, but it would be a stretch to say that those are their reasonable projections. A number three starter is something between Lackey's 2013 and Peavy's 2013-- someone who will give you a good number of average-to-above-average innings. I'm hard-pressed to conclude that Workman or Johnson reasonably project to that level. |
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 11, 2014 6:19:41 GMT -5
Johnson only has half a dozen games in at the AA level, pretty much same repitoire as Workman and just a couple of years younger. I'd put him at the top of the move list if any team has interest, his value probably won't get any higher than it currently stands.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 11, 2014 6:44:42 GMT -5
I actually put RDLR on that list by error, I was going for the cluster that is currently on the SoxProspects list. Since you ended the paragraph with "It might not be in this organization, but he'll make a solid back-end rotation guy" then either I have a higher opinion of Workman than you or else you have a significantly lower opinion of Johnson than Workman. Me personally, I think that for a career, Workman is slightly below those guys but more likely to achieve his ceiling. I'd give the others a #3, including Johnson and Workman a #3/#4, RDLR a #2/#3, Owens a #2 for realistic levels but pretty much everybody's mileage will differ. Right now of all those people, Barnes is the furthest away because he's struggling big time with his secondaries. ADD: Yes, I know I picked a bad day for thinking Workman is slightly behind Ranaudo, Webster and Barnes for a career. I think you're playing fast and loose with the scouting lingo there. A back-end rotation projection is not supposed to be a knock on a guy, and number three projections should not be handed out like candy. Those guys maybe all have the ceilings you mentioned, but it would be a stretch to say that those are their reasonable projections. A number three starter is something between Lackey's 2013 and Peavy's 2013-- someone who will give you a good number of average-to-above-average innings. I'm hard-pressed to conclude that Workman or Johnson reasonably project to that level. I don't think that at all with the possible exception of Owens who I have more confidence in than most. By the time you get to #3, the Bell curve widens considerably. If you just isolate on the Red Sox prospects, that's a true statement but I don't think so relative to all minor league pitchers. Our pitching is our strengnt but the strength is in middle of the rotation guys not high end guys like Bundy (random known name). I also view back of the rotation as a 4/5 or 5 and I think both Workman and Johnson are higher. I view reasonable projection as what you could expect with a normal development without the intervention of an unplanned variable either plus or minus. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 11, 2014 6:57:19 GMT -5
Addon but from a different perspective.
2012 supplemental first round pick (#31 overall).
2013 better than expected results, season shortened considerably by a non pitching injury (line drive to the face)then came back and showed that there weren't any psychological issues with that.
2014 Better than expected results at two levels with no dip in performance from A+ to AA.
I can't see how just based on bio type information calling Johnson a reasonable #3 is too optimistic, particularly for a lefty built like a workhorse.
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Post by jmei on Jun 11, 2014 7:09:28 GMT -5
I don't think you can project a player based solely on how he performed relative to initially-low expectations. I don't want to bash the guy too much, since I actually like him a fair bit, but we're talking about a guy with all of 35 innings above A-ball who has good but not great peripherals, no plus pitches, and good but not great command. You'll be hard-pressed to find a single scouting report projecting him as a number three starter. Maybe he has that ceiling, but I think it's optimistic to say that he reasonable projects to be that good. Let's just call it a difference of opinion and move on.
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