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Should the Red Sox trade Dustin Pedroia?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 19, 2015 13:02:51 GMT -5
Umm.. No, they really didn't want Fisk to stick around. I guess you didn't read the history books or have no memory of how it went down. Haywood Sullivan did not like Fisk, nor did he want Fisk retained. That's why they "accidentally" sent his contract to him late, thus allowing him to become a free agent. The Sox wanted Pedro - as long as it was for two or three years max, not at the 4 years at big money that Pedro wanted. The Sox wanted Evans to call it quits. Evans wanted one more year. So no, they really didn't want to those guys to stick around. Sox management likes guys who don't demand top dollar, such as Pedroia, and even Big Papi who makes less because he's a DH. Tell you what dude, I'll apologize to you if I'm wrong, but this talk about Pedroia being dealt is theoretical BS and will not happen. Period. Want to waste your time tilting at windmills? Go for it. I don't even necessarily disagree with the premise, but I think it's ridiculous to expect this to happen in reality. This isn't Nomar squabbling about his contract. Why are you pretending to know what the Sox are doing even as there has been major changes from on top likely changing the method of operation perhaps to it's core. I'm being practical that this be explored. I never advocated a trade for it's sake. Some will wax and wane that he's a leader and a young team needs players like him. A leader of what exactly? Of a team that has had what is likely to be 3 out of 4 last place finishes? Is that a feather in his cap or a knock? This thread is akin to how non-Patriot fans view deflategate, full of opinions with precious little to nothing to back up their opinion. There is not a GOOD reason other than nostalgia to not explore his value to other teams. We need front end of the rotation badly, he is a prime trade chip at a position the team is stacked at with multiple high end options now, Betts and soon Moncada and this is not even taking into account SS in the farm who could be converted to 2B too. BTW Nomar was a shock to everyone at the time too. I was responding to your silly point about didn't the Red Sox want Fisk, Martinez, and Evans to stick around in my last post. All you have to do is a little digging and some common sense and it's not so hard to know if the Sox FO wanted those guys around, and at what cost/terms. As far as what Red Sox management intends to do, it's certainly a moving target now. They're more likely to deal Pedroia. I'll increase the odds from 0.0000001 % to 0.001%. Actually it's probably the Sox might be less inclined as they are more likely going to try to win in 2016 rather than do a long-term build. If they're trying to win in 2016, Pedroia is going to be your 2b. Common sense. But hey, maybe they'll deal him. And then we can also start a thread in which we'll see what the odds of the Sox releasing Ortiz is so that we can solve the Hanley Ramirez fielding deficiency problem. Now if you want to discuss the theoretical of whether they should or not, fine, because that's most likely what it's going to be - theoretical, something you fail to acknowledge. Sort of like all those people in June who were hoping Ortiz would get benched so his contract wouldn't kick in next year - as if that was really going to happen. As for me I haven't made any opinions upon whether they should keep Pedroia or not because it really doesn't matter. Frankly if they're going to make trades to get their ace pitcher, I doubt Pedroia is part of the package. They're going to deal young talent. Not an injury prone 30 something year old 2b who's tied up through 2021. And if that makes Pedroia sound like a salary dump,. it's not meant to. He's hardly Pablo Sandoval, Rick Porcello, or Hanley Ramirez, but he's not going to be some piece that fetches a spare top of the rotation starter. Man this is a stupid thread.
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Post by m1keyboots on Aug 19, 2015 14:04:07 GMT -5
in short, no. He pulled a hammy, his defense started streaky and was getting back to what it's always been. He was hitting a bit better than 2 years ago and leaps and bounds better than last year. lots of loud contact. This thread just feels like "we have nowhere to put Moncada or Mookie if JBJ is for real".
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 19, 2015 14:23:06 GMT -5
in short, no. He pulled a hammy, his defense started streaky and was getting back to what it's always been. He was hitting a bit better than 2 years ago and leaps and bounds better than last year. lots of loud contact. This thread just feels like "we have nowhere to put Moncada or Mookie if JBJ is for real". I don't think so. This thread is what to do about an aging icon before he becomes a total albatross. He's not anywhere close to there now, but by the time it happens, he'll be untradeable due to 10-and-5 rights. So, do you trade an icon too early or suffer through the contract. It's a legitimate question and one where there are a myriad of legitimate views on both sides. I don't think the discussion is, or should be, dictated by Moncada or Betts and finding them a spot on the diamond.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Aug 20, 2015 0:06:31 GMT -5
in short, no. He pulled a hammy, his defense started streaky and was getting back to what it's always been. He was hitting a bit better than 2 years ago and leaps and bounds better than last year. lots of loud contact. This thread just feels like "we have nowhere to put Moncada or Mookie if JBJ is for real". I don't think so. This thread is what to do about an aging icon before he becomes a total albatross. He's not anywhere close to there now, but by the time it happens, he'll be untradeable due to 10-and-5 rights. So, do you trade an icon too early or suffer through the contract. It's a legitimate question and one where there are a myriad of legitimate views on both sides. I don't think the discussion is, or should be, dictated by Moncada or Betts and finding them a spot on the diamond. At what point do his 10/5 rights kick in? Next off-season? One thing to consider is that with his salary going down and average salaries skyrocketing, his contract may not be too bad as long as he can still contribute in some meaningful way. But I do like the idea of Mookie at 2b some day.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 20, 2015 0:42:14 GMT -5
At what point do his 10/5 rights kick in? Next off-season? Next August. Therefore, DD will have to make that decision by next year's trade deadline.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 20, 2015 11:19:21 GMT -5
After listening to Speier talk about Pedroia's defense this season (and, by the way, pretty steep decline in steals - 26-20-17-6-1 over the past five years), I'm no longer in the camp that thinks this conversation is insane.
Pedroia hitting like he has this year is much more palatable when he's a plus defensive second baseman. If his 2015 decline there is real (and it may not be, my point is this is something they need to figure out), they might be well served to move him. A Bogaerts-Betts middle infield with JBJ in center would prevent a lot of runs.
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alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 619
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Post by alnipper on Aug 20, 2015 11:41:30 GMT -5
I am in favor of trading him if we get a good return. I have been looking at how long his contract is and his salary, and I just shake my head. With DD and other management coming in, it is a good time to trade him, before he has no value. I would prefer Hanley and Pablo going first.
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Post by m1keyboots on Aug 20, 2015 18:44:25 GMT -5
in short, no. He pulled a hammy, his defense started streaky and was getting back to what it's always been. He was hitting a bit better than 2 years ago and leaps and bounds better than last year. lots of loud contact. This thread just feels like "we have nowhere to put Moncada or Mookie if JBJ is for real". I don't think so. This thread is what to do about an aging icon before he becomes a total albatross. He's not anywhere close to there now, but by the time it happens, he'll be untradeable due to 10-and-5 rights. So, do you trade an icon too early or suffer through the contract. It's a legitimate question and one where there are a myriad of legitimate views on both sides. I don't think the discussion is, or should be, dictated by Moncada or Betts and finding them a spot on the diamond. then in short no. I think he's got 3 years minimum of solid if not better play left, the hand injury seems fixed a bit (knock on wood) I don't mind him not stealing bases, if he's going to pull a hammy. but for a guy in his early thirties and a franchise icon with a team friendly contract, no. there are other issues that need to be addressed before we send someone like pedroia away for whatever. No nostalgia or bias. I enjoy having an elite defensive 2nd baseman with xander as he develops, and a veteran attitude in the clubhouse with ties to really good redsox teams, as well as being a clear leader. So in semi short, another no. but thanks pushing me to not make it easy short answer
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Post by michael on Aug 24, 2015 13:22:06 GMT -5
Without quoting the multiple, long posts above, I would add the following regarding the handling of Fisk. Jean Yawkey was quoted as telling Woody to "get rid of them" (Fisk, Lynn & Burleson) because she felt that their holdouts had helped cause Tom's death. Reasonable or not it was her decision. Also remember that Marc Sullivan was in the Sox organization, arguably 'blocked' by Fisk. Again reasonable assumption or not. Not intending to enter this as an argument one way or the other just to perhaps edify 040713's history.
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Post by ray88h66 on Aug 24, 2015 13:57:16 GMT -5
in short, no. He pulled a hammy, his defense started streaky and was getting back to what it's always been. He was hitting a bit better than 2 years ago and leaps and bounds better than last year. lots of loud contact. This thread just feels like "we have nowhere to put Moncada or Mookie if JBJ is for real". I don't think so. This thread is what to do about an aging icon before he becomes a total albatross. He's not anywhere close to there now, but by the time it happens, he'll be untradeable due to 10-and-5 rights. So, do you trade an icon too early or suffer through the contract. It's a legitimate question and one where there are a myriad of legitimate views on both sides. I don't think the discussion is, or should be, dictated by Moncada or Betts and finding them a spot on the diamond. I don't think Dustin's contract ever becomes an "albatross". Hanley's contract is already an albatross. I hope Panda and Porcello's contract don't go bird.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 24, 2015 16:36:18 GMT -5
I don't think Dustin's contract ever becomes an "albatross". Hanley's contract is already an albatross. I hope Panda and Porcello's contract don't go bird. HR has 3/$66 remaining; DP has 6/$84 remaining.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 24, 2015 16:40:20 GMT -5
I don't think Dustin's contract ever becomes an "albatross". Hanley's contract is already an albatross. I hope Panda and Porcello's contract don't go bird. HR has 3/$66 remaining; DP has 6/$84 remaining. So? Pedroia isn't the worst player in the league. He's still good when he's not hurt.
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Post by ray88h66 on Aug 24, 2015 19:30:09 GMT -5
I don't think Dustin's contract ever becomes an "albatross". Hanley's contract is already an albatross. I hope Panda and Porcello's contract don't go bird. HR has 3/$66 remaining; DP has 6/$84 remaining. I think those numbers make my point.
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Post by soxrock on Aug 24, 2015 20:14:25 GMT -5
Given the past two years of injury history and 6 yrs remaining on his contract, he will be hard to trade. If Dombroski can. He will .
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 25, 2015 12:07:30 GMT -5
HR has 3/$66 remaining; DP has 6/$84 remaining. I think those numbers make my point. I think people can read those numbers however they want. HR has a shorter contract with a higher $/year, ending at age 34; DP has a longer contract with a greater overall financial commitment, ending at age 38.
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Post by redsoxrich on Aug 26, 2015 9:36:17 GMT -5
I sent this as a message to the higher ups to post as a new thread, but never heard back. I guess some pigs are more equal than others. I guess is as good a thread as any to post this:
Subject: DD's First Trade- Red Sox - Tigers
Crazy trade proposal that may have some possibility to solve problems for both teams:
Tigers get:
Hanley Ramirez (owed $90,250,000 thru 2019 assuming 2019 option vests) Pablo Sandoval (owed $70,000,000 thru 2019) Rick Porcello (owed $82,000,000 thru 2019) Dustin Pedroia (owed $84,000,000 thru 2021) Manuel Margot Choice of Matt Barnes, Henry Owens or Brian Johnson
Total Guaranteed Salaries taken on: $326,250,000
Red Sox get:
Miguel Cabrerra (owed $240,000,000 thru 2023) Justin Verlander (owed $112,000,000 thru 2019) Ian Kinsler (owed $30,000,000 thru 2018) Nick Castellaneos
Total Guaranteed Salaries taken on: $382,000,000
Who says no? I assume DD would know if Verlander is done being elite pitcher and/or if Cabrerra has chance to stay healthy through remainder of contract.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 26, 2015 12:34:47 GMT -5
DET says no, and quickly.
Cabrera to Hanley is a downgrade, Castellanos to Sandoval is a push (with DET assuming a much worse contract), and Verlander to Porcello is a downgrade. The only upgrades are to Pedroia vs. Kinsler (and, even then, it's close given the contract obligations vs. performance) and getting two upper level prospects.
$334.9mm cash assumed by DET (excl Margot/pitcher)
2016 - $73.6mm 2017 - $75.6mm 2018 - $78.6mm 2019 - $76.85mm (incl. Ramirez option) 2020 - $18.125mm (incl. Sandoval buyout) 2021 - $12.125mm
$390mm cash assumed by BOS (excl Castellanos, who is arb-eligible in 2016)
2016 - $70.0mm 2017 - $67.0mm 2018 - $63.0mm 2019 - $58.0mm 2020 - $30.0mm 2021 - $30.0mm 2022 - $32.0mm 2023 - $32.0mm 2024 - $8.0mm (Cabrera buyout)
I'm not sure DET trades Kinsler for Pedroia straight up. Kinsler is having his third 5+ WAR season in a row and he's only a year older than DP, with three less contract years left assuming the option is picked up (3/$37 vs. 6/$84).
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Aug 31, 2015 6:39:09 GMT -5
Take this for what it is worth but Sean McAdam was on the radio this past Thursday. Sean is one of the few Boston journalist who actually seems to understand the game inside and out and gets it. He was talking about how Pedrioa's contract is not as nearly as friendly as when the deal was signed and that with DD on board he was sure that he'd explore moving him.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 31, 2015 10:22:59 GMT -5
Take this for what it is worth but Sean McAdam was on the radio this past Thursday. Sean is one of the few Boston journalist who actually seems to understand the game inside and out and gets it. He was talking about how Pedrioa's contract is not as nearly as friendly as when the deal was signed and that with DD on board he was sure that he'd explore moving him. Agree that McAdam is one of the better guys, but he's not always completely right. He also suggested that Bryce Brentz, who had thumb surgery in June, might be a September call-up in an article this weekend. He's speculating there just as much as anyone else would be.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 31, 2015 11:39:37 GMT -5
Maybe they can trade him for Jay Bruce.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Sept 16, 2015 21:31:37 GMT -5
Maybe they can trade him for Jay Bruce. How about a real proposal?
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Post by jro545454 on Sept 23, 2015 7:39:28 GMT -5
I was just reading that the Angels are looking to trade a SP and looking for a 2B.
Any thoughts on a CJ Wilson for Pedrosa trade? Maybe the Red Sox eat a bit of money and the Angels throw in a RP.
Edit: Sox throw in cash
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 23, 2015 7:54:40 GMT -5
I was just reading that the Angels are looking to trade a SP and looking for a 2B. Any thoughts on a CJ Wilson for Pedrosa trade? Maybe the Red Sox eat a bit of money and the Angels throw in a RP. Edit: Sox throw in cash Is this serious? We don't need to dump Pedroia. What am I missing? Wilson is going to be 35, signed for one season and has a messed up elbow. The only reason to trade Pedroia is to improve the team a good deal, not make the team worse.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Sept 23, 2015 8:37:37 GMT -5
The fan in me would never trade Pedroia, the business side of me would definitely consider it. Now, we don't HAVE to trade him because he is a good player that makes this team better. But It could make sense to get his money and late years off the books while allowing Betts to slide into 2nd and JBJ to take over in CF.
However, even if I was going to trade Pedroia, I'd do it after the 2016 season because I think we can compete in 2016 and Margot might be ready to slide into RF by then.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 23, 2015 12:21:44 GMT -5
The fan in me would never trade Pedroia, the business side of me would definitely consider it. Now, we don't HAVE to trade him because he is a good player that makes this team better. But It could make sense to get his money and late years off the books while allowing Betts to slide into 2nd and JBJ to take over in CF. However, even if I was going to trade Pedroia, I'd do it after the 2016 season because I think we can compete in 2016 and Margot might be ready to slide into RF by then. By then you'd have to ask for Dustin Pedroia's permission as he becomes a 10-5 guy at some point late in the season.
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