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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 31, 2014 16:13:25 GMT -5
Given what Price was traded for, I think I'd offer RDLR and Holt for Hamels. Apparently prospects are worth a fortune now. RAJ might take that as a starting point in the conversation... for Bryd. I'm pretty sure this dude is based off a "One flew over the cuckoo's nest" character, and not Jack Nicholson or the Chief.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2014 16:17:10 GMT -5
Given what Price was traded for, I think I'd offer RDLR and Holt for Hamels. Apparently prospects are worth a fortune now. RAJ might take that as a starting point in the conversation... for Bryd. I'm pretty sure this dude is based off a "One flew over the cuckoo's nest" character, and not Jack Nicholson or the Chief. Well maybe he'll be on his meds that day. I obviously don't think he'll ever trade anyone, but that's what I think is fair market value at this point, given all the trades we've seen in the last few days.
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Post by taftreign on Jul 31, 2014 16:28:28 GMT -5
How do you think there is any hope of trading with Amaro. He couldn't unload anyone at the deadline including Byrd. What was his offer to Seattle? Something like here's three really good prospects in your system, you pick the two you're giving us for Byrd followed by end of conversation by Seattle.
The best hope is Amaro is fired and then reengage with whichever sane person replaces him.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2014 16:30:18 GMT -5
How do you think there is any hope of trading with Amaro. He couldn't unload anyone at the deadline including Byrd. What was his offer to Seattle? Something like here's three really good prospects in your system, you pick the two you're giving us for Byrd followed by end of conversation. The best hope is Amaro is fired and then renegade with whichever sane person replaces him. I've said the same about every single Phillie player supposedly on the market, when he was demanding JBJ+ for Michael Young when he wasn't even a replacement level player last year. I mean he didn't make a single trade this year and they have about the same record as the Sox. Most of their players are almost untradable because of the stupid options they put in like $10 million buyouts
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Post by elguapo on Aug 1, 2014 10:28:54 GMT -5
How do you think there is any hope of trading with Amaro. . Who can say? But I'm amenable to an Owens-young SP-Coyle-+ deal for Hamels. We've got lots of young pitching and some of it will be best used in trade.
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Post by izzy on Aug 1, 2014 18:29:00 GMT -5
I'm amenable to an Owens-young SP-Coyle-+ deal for Hamels. We've got lots of young pitching and some of it will be best used in trade. That seems like a lot to give up for a pitcher with such a large contract. I can't imagine us not extending Lester but taking on Hamel's contract and giving up our best pitching prospect+.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Aug 2, 2014 12:17:43 GMT -5
Since The Deadline Trades The Red Sox Made Were For Major League Players, Amaro May Be More Open To A Trade.
The Day He Says 'rebuilding' Is Probably The Last Day He Is Employed
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 2, 2014 13:19:16 GMT -5
Cliff Lee isn't anyone I'd touch even just for money. His elbow is junk. Halladay was durable until he was old too then he was toast. Lee is toast.
Hamels may be the guy. This FO seems to think it's better to give up a huge prospect package than to give extra years to a guy that just costs money.
4 years of Hamels + 2-3 top prospects is better than 5 or 6 years of Lester.
One thing to remember about Lester is that 14 months ago we were question whether the Sox would pick up the option for this season.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Aug 2, 2014 17:11:20 GMT -5
Hamels may be the guy. This FO seems to think it's better to give up a huge prospect package than to give extra years to a guy that just costs money. 4 years of Hamels + 2-3 top prospects is better than 5 or 6 years of Lester. One thing to remember about Lester is that 14 months ago we were question whether the Sox would pick up the option for this season. Your post should read 4 years of Hamels - 2-3 top prospects. We'd be losing them if we trade for Hamels. Give me Lester and let me keep my prospects 7 days a week.
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Post by xanderbogaerts2 on Aug 2, 2014 18:06:18 GMT -5
Maybe we re-sign Lester Gordon Edes did tweet that he heard the Red Sox will make a strong push for Lester in the Offseason. I would rather try to trade for Chris Sale could command the same amount of prospects.
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Post by jrffam05 on Aug 3, 2014 10:25:53 GMT -5
No doubt in my mind, the conversation doesn't start until Red Sox include Owens, Swihart, and betts. All three, and that only starts the convo. Phillies didn't trade anyone, meaning they are going into 2015 with the same last place team they have now. Other gms said they didn't consider phillies were serious about trading Hamel's, which means they think he is asking for more than anyone would give. If they don't want to trade their under performing players why would they trade the only one who is performing.
Like the king Felix and Stanton rumors, this will be another deal that will never happen that I will hate hearing about over and over again.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 6, 2014 16:31:58 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal ?@ken_Rosenthal 3m Sources: Hamels claimed on revocable trade waivers by unidentified club. #Phillies have 48 hours to work out a trade or pull him back.
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Post by burythehammer on Aug 6, 2014 18:08:24 GMT -5
Just taking on the entire contract and giving up minimal prospect return would basically be an ideal scenario for us here. Of course we're dealing with a dumb GM who also happens to have a huge payroll, so it's unlikely.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 7, 2014 15:46:45 GMT -5
Jayson Stark ?@jaysonst 2m To answer questions about earlier tweet, source says previous list of teams Hamels would OK trade to was wrong. Cubs OK, but Red Sox blocked
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Aug 8, 2014 20:36:05 GMT -5
This team needs a lot more than Hamls to field a competitive team. I don't agree with trading the likes of Owens, Swihart, or Devers for someone like Hamels who has a huge contract ($90'million over the next four years) particularly given that they are likely have to guarantee another year (2019) at $19 million for a guy who is already almost 31 years old. It makes no sense to me if the Red Sox were not willing to offer a similar contract to Lester why would you weaken your team so much by trading your top prospects for a guy almost the same age as Lester. You build your next Red Sox champion team around the likes of Owen, Swihart and Devers and don't sacrifice the long term success trading those guys away.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 9, 2014 8:01:51 GMT -5
The way Hamels contract option is, it's likely beneficial to the team not a negative. He has to throw 400 innings te last 2 seasons plus 200 in the last.if he does that you'd want another year at only 14m(6m buyout if you don't do it).
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Aug 9, 2014 8:39:54 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 9, 2014 9:12:38 GMT -5
Plus, the option would probably have to be guaranteed anyway to get him to unblock the trade. The Phillies give out absurd contracts.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 9, 2014 9:14:15 GMT -5
How do you figure it's worth more than he'd be worth if he's thrown 200 inning each of the previous two years. You worry about age because of failed health more than anything with an elite arm. Especially a lefty.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Aug 9, 2014 10:13:49 GMT -5
Hamels has a no trade provision with the Red Sox which will likely be a sticking point in any trade negotiations. The $24 million option for 2019 could come into play to get him to agree to waive the no trade. Do you really think that Hamels will be worth $24 million in 2019? I also don't think it makes sense to give up the future core of the Red Sox. (e.g, Owens, Swihart, Devers, et al) for Hamels. I wouldn't trade those guys for Stanton either.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 9, 2014 10:14:44 GMT -5
Can we just lock this thread now?
Peter Gammons ? @pgammo
Phillies have Charlie Kerfeld bearing down on Xander Bogaerts. Don't think he'd be traded, but...
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Post by beasleyrockah on Aug 9, 2014 12:08:48 GMT -5
Can't the Red Sox just wait it out until Amaro is fired? This guy can't be keeping his job through the offseason.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Aug 9, 2014 13:37:16 GMT -5
Can't the Red Sox just wait it out until Amaro is fired? This guy can't be keeping his job through the offseason. I think his job is very safe. All reports coming out of Philly is that they are an organization of loyalty. Haven't heard ownership say a bad thing about him. That being said he's pretty bad.
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Post by oleary25 on Aug 9, 2014 13:55:56 GMT -5
I was looking over the situation and the Red Sox are kind of screwed this free agency for pitchers. Cole would be nice but he's going to cost too much in prospects. Lester is going to be severely overpaid, and the Sox will have to get into a bidding war. Max Scherzer is the same but will come with a comp pick attached to him and he'll command too $. Plus power pitchers who lose their stuff are hit table until they learn to pitch. James Shields will have a comp pick attached but will be in the Sox price range but as of 2 years ago the man was 1-9 at Fenway with a 6.75 era. I'm not saying he couldn't adjust but that alarming. Masterson I feel represents good value while not being a number 1 he's a ground ball pitcher, no comp pick, and can pitch in Fenway. If I'm the Red Sox I'm giving Lester what he wants unfortunately if we want to compete next year. If we want another safer pitcher we should go with Masterson. The Kids though are going to take another year before they're ready to contribute big time IMO. Owens will be solid. Ranaudo is a gamer who will battle through. For some reason I really still like Barnes. I think he's got the stuff to be a number 3 at worst. Del la Rosa I like. I think Workman is a swing man or reliever. Webster everyone is high on I just don't know if he'll be a reliever or starter. Anyway those are just my thoughts. I wouldn't trade for Cole.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 9, 2014 15:16:24 GMT -5
Hamels has a no trade provision with the Red Sox which will likely be a sticking point in any trade negotiations. The $24 million option for 2019 could come into play to get him to agree to waive the no trade. Do you really think that Hamels will be worth $24 million in 2019? I also don't think it makes sense to give up the future core of the Red Sox. (e.g, Owens, Swihart, Devers, et al) for Hamels. I wouldn't trade those guys for Stanton either. Well now you are speculating and changing things. As far as we know, Hamels option is a team option or vesting based on favorable terms. I do think he's worth the money if he's thrown 200 inning each of the two prior seasons and it has injury protection.. If he falls just short it's only 20m team option. Also due to the buyouts the options are really 14 and 18m. There are conflicting reports. Cots says Boston isn't a team he can block a trade to so we don't really know. www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/national-league/philadelphia-phillies/I do agree I'd be leery of who I had to give up. Hopefully,you can build the package around Mookie and maybe even De La Rosa and Workman.
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