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Post by wcsoxfan on Sept 18, 2014 20:04:12 GMT -5
There has been very little talk as to who is going to platoon with Vazquez for 2015. Ideally, you would have a left-handed bat-first veteran on a 1 year deal. John Jaso is just that - going into his last year of arbitration.
He's often thought of as a DH, but he has played nearly 400 innings this year at a below average level.
What do you guys think of the fit? What do you think it would take to get him from Oakland?
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Post by jdb on Sept 20, 2014 9:08:33 GMT -5
Jaso does seem like he'd be a good fit. If we can get a quality hitter at 3B I wouldn't mind Ross mentoring Vazquez for another year.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 20, 2014 10:07:51 GMT -5
Anybody but Ross and his anemic bat. Preferably a LH not named Pierczynski. If we need a mentor to Vasquez, look into to return of the Yankees bullpen coach, formerly the Sox bullpen coach, Gary Tuck.
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John Jaso
Sept 20, 2014 14:43:03 GMT -5
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Post by seanleary001 on Sept 20, 2014 14:43:03 GMT -5
Anybody but Ross and his anemic bat. @peteabe: 8 games left for a last-place team and 37-year-old backup catcher David Ross out for early optional BP in Baltimore. #character. You can't underestimate the character Ross brings into the clubhouse. I definitely would not mind him being brought back again next year.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Sept 20, 2014 15:19:37 GMT -5
I love Jaso
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 22, 2014 9:00:34 GMT -5
Anybody but Ross and his anemic bat. @peteabe: 8 games left for a last-place team and 37-year-old backup catcher David Ross out for early optional BP in Baltimore. #character. You can't underestimate the character Ross brings into the clubhouse. I definitely would not mind him being brought back again next year. Eh....you need a little more than "character" to take up a ML roster spot. Nothing against David Ross, who seems to be a good human being.
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Post by jmei on Sept 22, 2014 9:37:37 GMT -5
David Ross' bat is obviously not very good anymore, but he's still one of the best pitch framers in the league. Statcorner's framing estimates have him as the 7th best framer in the league on a per-game basis (Vazquez ranks 5th, FWIW). He also has a reputation for calling a good game and being solid enough at blocking pitches and throwing out runners. Honestly, looking at the list of free agent catchers (MLBTR listing here, Fangraphs leaderboard here), Ross still seems like one of the leading candidates for the backup job next year. Russell Martin will be too expensive/will require a long-term deal, and noone else in that FA group seems to clearly have a better bat than Ross (and that's true even if we look at a three-year sample), while Ross probably possesses the best defensive skills. The risk is that Ross will be 38 next year, and there's a chance that he just totally falls off the map (either his bat totally collapses or he just becomes too injury-prone to be even a backup guy). There's also the fact that if/when Vazquez is injured, Ross won't be able to be your full-time starter. But Swihart projects to be MLB-ready by mid-2015, and they'll probably also have some combination of Butler/Lavarnway-types in Pawtucket for early-season emergencies. And, as I mentioned before, the rest of the free agent crop is no more appealing. Back on-topic: Jaso's bat is incredibly appealing (his bat has basically been on par with Yadier Molina and Jonathan Lucroy over the past three years), but he's an awful defender who has had terrifying concussion issues. You want his bat in the game as often as possible and his glove behind the dish as little as possible, which makes him a bad fit for a team like the Red Sox with an entrenched DH and a young catcher who should get a normal starting catcher's workload (it also makes him a great fit in Oakland, where Bob Melvin platoons his DHs and Cs and can get Jaso plenty of playing time).
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Post by wcsoxfan on Sept 22, 2014 18:27:30 GMT -5
David Ross' bat is obviously not very good anymore, but he's still one of the best pitch framers in the league. Statcorner's framing estimates have him as the 7th best framer in the league on a per-game basis (Vazquez ranks 5th, FWIW). He also has a reputation for calling a good game and being solid enough at blocking pitches and throwing out runners. Honestly, looking at the list of free agent catchers (MLBTR listing here, Fangraphs leaderboard here), Ross still seems like one of the leading candidates for the backup job next year. Russell Martin will be too expensive/will require a long-term deal, and noone else in that FA group seems to clearly have a better bat than Ross (and that's true even if we look at a three-year sample), while Ross probably possesses the best defensive skills. The risk is that Ross will be 38 next year, and there's a chance that he just totally falls off the map (either his bat totally collapses or he just becomes too injury-prone to be even a backup guy). There's also the fact that if/when Vazquez is injured, Ross won't be able to be your full-time starter. But Swihart projects to be MLB-ready by mid-2015, and they'll probably also have some combination of Butler/Lavarnway-types in Pawtucket for early-season emergencies. And, as I mentioned before, the rest of the free agent crop is no more appealing. Back on-topic: Jaso's bat is incredibly appealing (his bat has basically been on par with Yadier Molina and Jonathan Lucroy over the past three years), but he's an awful defender who has had terrifying concussion issues. You want his bat in the game as often as possible and his glove behind the dish as little as possible, which makes him a bad fit for a team like the Red Sox with an entrenched DH and a young catcher who should get a normal starting catcher's workload (it also makes him a great fit in Oakland, where Bob Melvin platoons his DHs and Cs and can get Jaso plenty of playing time). Only problem with this plan is that it's a bit too reliant on the young guys - and I can't imagine the Red Sox going for it. Right now Vazquez as a starter seems 'iffy' as his bat is suspect, and could be so bad that it almost offsets his glove; while Swihart has just reached AAA. Aside from Xander (who was an uber prospect) when was the last time the Red Sox relied so heavily on a prospect, or two, since the current regime took over?....Jacoby? Jaso's weak glove is an issue, but he is a lefty who can pinch-hit for Vazquez and you can bring Vazquez in place of Jaso in late innings for defense - they would complement each other well. Jaso being in the last year of arbitration is the only reason I can see Oakland dealing him as they may want to get something back and his cost will be close to $5 mil. So....who else is out there? (agreed on Martin - unless Swihart gets traded)
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Post by jmei on Sept 22, 2014 21:12:01 GMT -5
I think the front office thinks Vazquez's bat will improve ( see Farrell's recent comments) and they know he'll be an elite defender (see the pitch-framing thread). The lineup should be able to carry a weaker bat if the other eight spots are average-to-better, which should be the case (assuming Castillo is as advertised). The Red Sox relied on Pedroia entering 07, Buccholz and Ellsbury entering 08, Saltalamacchia entering 2011, and Xander and Bradley entering 2014, so I wouldn't say it's totally unprecedented. Part of the problem is that none of the other free agent catchers is more appealing. Hundley and Soto are lower-risk than Ross (in terms of able to handle full-time reps if Vazquez is not ready/injured just by virtue of being younger), but not any better (neither projects to be even an average regular). Guys like Pierzynski, Buck, and Laird are over the hill, while Doumit can't field and Mathis can't hit. And that's pretty much the whole crop. In terms of other catcher trade options: Jason Castro might be available (he's entering his second arb year and the Astros won't be competitive before he reaches free agency) and would be a decent buy-low option (and he's a lefty!). He's a guy I would look into. Other than that, there's not much. Evan Gattis is probably available, but has similar fit issues as Jaso (he's also a righty, which rules out a platoon). Maybe a Saltalamacchia reunion, though the Red Sox presumably moved on from him for a reason.
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 23, 2014 0:50:11 GMT -5
Right now Vazquez as a starter seems 'iffy' as his bat is suspect, and could be so bad that it almost offsets his glove I think I may be going for a record in terms of stating the same thing in as many different threads as possible. Maybe if I use bold ... Christian Vazquez shows every indication of being the best defensive player currently in baseball, and one of the best in history. He's saving in the neighborhood of 50 runs per 120 games, mostly by knocking 30 points off the staff ERA. Even without hitting a lick, he has been the 8th best catcher in MLB this year, and easily projects to be the 5th or 6th best next year simply by getting his bat up to below average rather than replacement level or below.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Sept 23, 2014 1:59:38 GMT -5
I think I may be going for a record in terms of stating the same thing in as many different threads as possible. Maybe if I use bold ... Christian Vazquez shows every indication of being the best defensive player currently in baseball, and one of the best in history. He's saving in the neighborhood of 50 runs per 120 games, mostly by knocking 30 points off the staff ERA. Even without hitting a lick, he has been the 8th best catcher in MLB this year, and easily projects to be the 5th or 6th best next year simply by getting his bat up to below average rather than replacement level or below.
I like Vazquez, but a guy who has played 50 games with .1 fWAR and .5 bWAR, all of which is from defense, is not someone the Red Sox will comfortable in as the singular option going into next season. Even if they were a small market team that would be iffy. I think the front office thinks Vazquez's bat will improve ( see Farrell's recent comments) and they know he'll be an elite defender (see the pitch-framing thread). The lineup should be able to carry a weaker bat if the other eight spots are average-to-better, which should be the case (assuming Castillo is as advertised). The Red Sox relied on Pedroia entering 07, Buccholz and Ellsbury entering 08, Saltalamacchia entering 2011, and Xander and Bradley entering 2014, so I wouldn't say it's totally unprecedented. Part of the problem is that none of the other free agent catchers is more appealing. Hundley and Soto are lower-risk than Ross (in terms of able to handle full-time reps if Vazquez is not ready/injured just by virtue of being younger), but not any better (neither projects to be even an average regular). Guys like Pierzynski, Buck, and Laird are over the hill, while Doumit can't field and Mathis can't hit. And that's pretty much the whole crop. In terms of other catcher trade options: Jason Castro might be available (he's entering his second arb year and the Astros won't be competitive before he reaches free agency) and would be a decent buy-low option (and he's a lefty!). He's a guy I would look into. Other than that, there's not much. Evan Gattis is probably available, but has similar fit issues as Jaso (he's also a righty, which rules out a platoon). Maybe a Saltalamacchia reunion, though the Red Sox presumably moved on from him for a reason. Jmei is off on Buchholz and Bradley comparisons. Buchholz was sensational the year before his rookie-ish season and pitchers are quite a bit different than position players since every team has depth in pitching (or should). While in Bradley's case he made the team out of spring training only due to multiple injuries, then the following year they signed Sizemore and started Bradley on the bench - hardly 'great confidence'. I like his Castro idea though IF he is available. Can platoon lefty/righty and has enough upside that they may be able to trade he or Swihart for a good piece down the road. Not sure what it what take to get him. Perhaps a Workman type plus a little more? Not signing Salty last season for a meager (by MLB standards) wage still seems silly - especially since he should still be at the end of his prime when the deal expires (and they could trade his last year for another piece if Swihart pans out). But I agree that he's unlikely to come back.
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