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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 14, 2014 11:03:46 GMT -5
Oscar Tavares committed murder. i realize the thread went up before the facts were in, but I don't wish him peace; at best he has a lot of work to do in his next incarnation. I do hope his girlfriend's family has emotional support. I get that in the States he'd be guilty of vehicular homicide (not murder), but all legal terms aside she's responsible for the loss of her own life. We don't know the facts but unless he forced her against her will (highly improbable) She got in the car by her own choice and was most likely wasted herself. If she was t even worse on her part. Putting the blame on the drunk driver versus his passenger(s) is wrong. She was in the car with him not an innocent in another vehicle.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 14, 2014 11:06:50 GMT -5
Hey guys thanks for using the death of a child as an excuse to get up on your soapboxes. It's what we all need right now.
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rjp313jr
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Posts: 14,032
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 14, 2014 11:06:52 GMT -5
It's kind of like if a patron at the zoo climbs over the fence and plays with a lion and the lion eats that person, it's not the lions fault... Kinda sorta
Point is she had control and chose to take it away from herself and gamble with her life... She lost - sadly
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 14, 2014 13:04:30 GMT -5
I don't think baseball is to blame for something a baseball player did in his personal life in another country in the offseason. People need to be responsible for themselves. I'm pretty sure most people in the world know they shouldn't be driving drunk.
And there also is a huge, huge difference between drinking a couple beers and a .25 BAC.
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Post by moonstone2 on Nov 14, 2014 13:17:37 GMT -5
I disagree with that. Sports is very unique in that you have a lot of very young people making a lot of money. Though I am sure a lot of them in the back of their mind realize that driving drunk endangers both themselves and others, many clearly don't take it as seriously as they should. Education absolutely does help in that regard,as does the league actually taking the issue more seriously. MLB has a responsibility to protect the safety of their players and the general public as best as they can. The players are after all, the brand. The chart below is very telling as it shows that drunk driving fatalities fell by half over a 30 year period. Yes safer vehicles and harsher penalties likely did help in this regard, but I think the constant barrage by groups such as MADD increased awareness of the problem and its' seriousness played a big part in that too. There is no reason why MLB couldn't work with MADD as other and other groups as other employers do to help create a program aimed towards players and other personnel to increase awareness of the seriousness of drunk driving. www.madd.org/drunk-driving/about/history.html
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 14, 2014 13:25:18 GMT -5
Having to be told how important it is to not drive with a .25 BAC is about the equivalent to telling them not to drive off a cliff while smoking crack and snorting heroin.
As usual, MADD will be using these incidents to try to get the limits lowered to an absurdly low level that you could have in the morning after drinking 4 drinks the night before because that's obviously the key to stopping people who drank an entire bottle of vodka and killed himself and his girlfriend.
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Post by moonstone2 on Nov 14, 2014 14:03:35 GMT -5
Having to be told how important it is to not drive with a .25 BAC is about the equivalent to telling them not to drive off a cliff while smoking crack and snorting heroin. As usual, MADD will be using these incidents to try to get the limits lowered to an absurdly low level that you could have in the morning after drinking 4 drinks the night before because that's obviously the key to stopping people who drank an entire bottle of vodka and killed himself and his girlfriend. Knowing intellectually that driving drunk is one thing, but having it personally hit home is quite another. A person who has personally seen the suffering of another person as the result of drunk driving is far less likely to commit the act themselves. It is irresponsible of fans to say that a drunk driver is merely an idiot and nothing should be done to attempt to curb their behavior. Personally I can't believe that anyone would be against MLB penalties and other actions against those who drink and drive. It is these same fans, who cry outrage at players who did or might have taken steroids. It's ridiculous. Oscar Tavarez didn't do anything that would have resulted in any penalties from MLB, or even a condemnation from an owner or anyone associated with MLB. even though what he did would be considered a felony in every state. Meanwhile players can be suspended for marijuana use which is legal in many states and not a crime in several others. It makes no sense. A large spate of DUI arrests moved the NFL to punish even those who drink and drive even once. It harms the MLB's brand and endangers the safety of the players of the general public. I am shocked that anyone would argue that even incremental steps should not be taken.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 14, 2014 15:00:39 GMT -5
Having to be told how important it is to not drive with a .25 BAC is about the equivalent to telling them not to drive off a cliff while smoking crack and snorting heroin. As usual, MADD will be using these incidents to try to get the limits lowered to an absurdly low level that you could have in the morning after drinking 4 drinks the night before because that's obviously the key to stopping people who drank an entire bottle of vodka and killed himself and his girlfriend. Knowing intellectually that driving drunk is one thing, but having it personally hit home is quite another. A person who has personally seen the suffering of another person as the result of drunk driving is far less likely to commit the act themselves. It is irresponsible of fans to say that a drunk driver is merely an idiot and nothing should be done to attempt to curb their behavior. Personally I can't believe that anyone would be against MLB penalties and other actions against those who drink and drive. It is these same fans, who cry outrage at players who did or might have taken steroids. It's ridiculous. Oscar Tavarez didn't do anything that would have resulted in any penalties from MLB, or even a condemnation from an owner or anyone associated with MLB. even though what he did would be considered a felony in every state. Meanwhile players can be suspended for marijuana use which is legal in many states and not a crime in several others. It makes no sense. A large spate of DUI arrests moved the NFL to punish even those who drink and drive even once. It harms the MLB's brand and endangers the safety of the players of the general public. I am shocked that anyone would argue that even incremental steps should not be taken. How could baseball make driving drunk hit home personally for baseball players? I'm not opposed to punishing players with suspensions. I just don't think taking incremental steps is going to prevent Taveras from doing what he did. Neither is taking alcohol out of locker rooms. Neither will wearing ribbons. Or lowering legally allowed BAC to .001.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 14, 2014 15:23:32 GMT -5
Here's the thing - when you're going to sign a player at age 16 (or even draft him out of high school or college, to be honest), and then essentially place him in a fraternity (in the crude Animal House sense, not in the grander "brotherhood" sense) as his job for hopefully the next 20 years, he's not going to learn the same life lessons naturally that most of us do. I'm sure there are MLB teams that could ABSOLUTELY do a lot more in terms of education.
I know I got a lot of stupid out of my system in college. I'm guessing that, or something similar, was the case for a lot of folks posting here. Now imagine you're not in that kind of structured, relatively safer environment when you're acting that way, and oh, you've got a shit-ton of money. Powder keg, no? Teams and MLB have their Rookie programs for guys about to hit the majors, and I'm sure Taveras went through something like that, so no, you're not going to prevent this kind of thing from happening completely - if there was a way to do that, then it wouldn't happen, right? But yes, I think MLB organizations have a responsibility to teach players about this kind of thing, and I think they could do better.
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Post by moonstone2 on Nov 14, 2014 16:03:21 GMT -5
Here's the thing - when you're going to sign a player at age 16 (or even draft him out of high school or college, to be honest), and then essentially place him in a fraternity (in the crude Animal House sense, not in the grander "brotherhood" sense) as his job for hopefully the next 20 years, he's not going to learn the same life lessons naturally that most of us do. I'm sure there are MLB teams that could ABSOLUTELY do a lot more in terms of education. I know I got a lot of stupid out of my system in college. I'm guessing that, or something similar, was the case for a lot of folks posting here. Now imagine you're not in that kind of structured, relatively safer environment when you're acting that way, and oh, you've got a shit-ton of money. Powder keg, no? Teams and MLB have their Rookie programs for guys about to hit the majors, and I'm sure Taveras went through something like that, so no, you're not going to prevent this kind of thing from happening completely - if there was a way to do that, then it wouldn't happen, right? But yes, I think MLB organizations have a responsibility to teach players about this kind of thing, and I think they could do better. What Chris said. As usual you made the argument much better than I did/could.
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Post by onbase on Nov 14, 2014 18:46:16 GMT -5
Here's the thing - when you're going to sign a player at age 16 (or even draft him out of high school or college, to be honest), and then essentially place him in a fraternity (in the crude Animal House sense, not in the grander "brotherhood" sense) as his job for hopefully the next 20 years, he's not going to learn the same life lessons naturally that most of us do. I'm sure there are MLB teams that could ABSOLUTELY do a lot more in terms of education. I know I got a lot of stupid out of my system in college. I'm guessing that, or something similar, was the case for a lot of folks posting here. Now imagine you're not in that kind of structured, relatively safer environment when you're acting that way, and oh, you've got a shit-ton of money. Powder keg, no? Teams and MLB have their Rookie programs for guys about to hit the majors, and I'm sure Taveras went through something like that, so no, you're not going to prevent this kind of thing from happening completely - if there was a way to do that, then it wouldn't happen, right? But yes, I think MLB organizations have a responsibility to teach players about this kind of thing, and I think they could do better. Yes, all of this. Driving drunk is not going stop completely ever, or at least not until technology can universally stop it which is a long way off. In the mean time outrage is needed. MADD has been calling me non-stop for a couple of years at all hours of day or night, leaving no message. They are not the answer if that's how they treat potential supporters. It's going to take a large village - MLB and other sports who employ young athletes in the "invulnerable" stage of life, the legal system, and every single one of us stepping in when some other system fails. I'm all about second chances - if they're earned and debts are paid. Drake Britton was handed an opening day start a too short time after driving drunk and out of control at 100MPH.
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