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nomar
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Posts: 11,607
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Post by nomar on Nov 11, 2014 14:26:07 GMT -5
Yoan Mocada's showcase is tomorrow.
For those unfamiliar he is an incredible talent. He is a Cuban SS, but will have to move to 2B/3B. Scouts have speculated that he would have been the 2015 draft's number 1 pick. He is supposed to have incredible tools across the board and could likely play CF as well, though it's expected that his bat would play anywhere.
If he signs in this signing period, the Red Sox, Yankees, Angels (recent signing) and Rays have the advantage to sign him because they already spent more than their bonus pools.
Not many have seen him play, especially recently as he was off the grid for a long time. But every word you hear about him is some form of praise. I really hope we sign him, and tomorrow should be very interesting.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 11, 2014 15:19:05 GMT -5
If he signs in this signing period, the Red Sox, Yankees, Angels (recent signing) and Rays have the advantage to sign him because they already spent more than their bonus pools. I just wan to make a clarification on this - I'm pretty sure you know what you mean, but someone unfamiliar with the rules might not understand. The four teams you listed don't have an "advantage" per se. Those teams have already spent more than their bonus pools, so there would be no additional penalty to sign Moncada. That's not really an advantage in signing him, though. If the Mariners (to pick a random team) decide that Moncada is the type of talent to go over their pool for, there wouldn't be a disadvantage. |
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Post by pedroelgrande on Nov 11, 2014 15:33:27 GMT -5
Yeah I expect every team will have a level of interest. Even Texas and Chicago who can't go beyond 250K for this current period will be in it, they just have to convince him to wait until next July 2.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Nov 11, 2014 15:40:37 GMT -5
Furthermore, if the Angels were willing to blow their pool on Baldoquin, I would guess some other team would be willing to do the same for Moncada, considering his talent level.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 11, 2014 16:16:35 GMT -5
If he signs in this signing period, the Red Sox, Yankees, Angels (recent signing) and Rays have the advantage to sign him because they already spent more than their bonus pools. I just wan to make a clarification on this - I'm pretty sure you know what you mean, but someone unfamiliar with the rules might not understand. The four teams you listed don't have an "advantage" per se. Those teams have already spent more than their bonus pools, so there would be no additional penalty to sign Moncada. That's not really an advantage in signing him, though. If the Mariners (to pick a random team) decide that Moncada is the type of talent to go over their pool for, there wouldn't be a disadvantage. Correct sorry for not clarifying. |
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 11, 2014 16:17:31 GMT -5
Furthermore, if the Angels were willing to blow their pool on Baldoquin, I would guess some other team would be willing to do the same for Moncada, considering his talent level. Or that the Angels did that because they plan on breaking the bank for Moncada. God knows their system could use them both. |
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Post by vermontsox1 on Nov 11, 2014 16:30:28 GMT -5
Furthermore, if the Angels were willing to blow their pool on Baldoquin, I would guess some other team would be willing to do the same for Moncada, considering his talent level. Or that the Angels did that because they plan on breaking the bank for Moncada. God knows their system could use them both. This could also be true. |
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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 11, 2014 17:33:18 GMT -5
I think 'their opportunity cost is lower' would be the best way of phrasing this.
I'd love to forgo the big 3 3rd basemen and pickup this guy and the Korean David Wright (not sure if he's the answer - but sounds like he would come relatively cheap and would be 1 more 3B to hold down the fort as they wait for Moncada and Devers).
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Post by vermontsox1 on Nov 11, 2014 20:58:10 GMT -5
Jeff Passan ?@jeffpassan Execs think 19-year-old Cuban Yoan Moncada could get $30-40M -- which would really be $60-80M. Column on the phenom: yhoo.it/14aThcY First speculation I've seen about what Moncada could get. |
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taftreign
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Post by taftreign on Nov 11, 2014 22:36:38 GMT -5
Jeff Passan ?@jeffpassan Execs think 19-year-old Cuban Yoan Moncada could get $30-40M -- which would really be $60-80M. Column on the phenom: yhoo.it/14aThcY First speculation I've seen about what Moncada could get. Wow! So 30 to 40 before the overage tax. I'd guessed closer to 30 mil with the tax. Still if he is a legitimate 1-1 type close to the mold of a Harper upside it is very fathomable. |
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Post by pedroelgrande on Nov 11, 2014 22:54:00 GMT -5
I'm not surprised by that number. Considering Castillo got 70 million dollars and Moncada is clearly rated as a better prospect. Also Soler got 30 million dollars too.
I know it's not an apples to apples comparison given that neither guy fell under the bonus pool but he is still a free agent and as we have seen teams are less worried about the 100% tax than losing draft picks where it is really a hard cap on the draft.
Ultimately it's gonna come down to the evaluation of the player. That will determine where the biding goes, if teams believe he is as good as we are led to believe then it could get really high.
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Post by moonstone2 on Nov 12, 2014 10:05:05 GMT -5
I think 'their opportunity cost is lower' would be the best way of phrasing this. I'd love to forgo the big 3 3rd basemen and pickup this guy and the Korean David Wright (not sure if he's the answer - but sounds like he would come relatively cheap and would be 1 more 3B to hold down the fort as they wait for Moncada and Devers). Doesn't work like that. Different budgets. It's hard to say where their break-even point is in terms of total player salary outlay per year but my guess is that it's around $300M. |
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 12, 2014 10:40:04 GMT -5
I think 'their opportunity cost is lower' would be the best way of phrasing this. I'd love to forgo the big 3 3rd basemen and pickup this guy and the Korean David Wright (not sure if he's the answer - but sounds like he would come relatively cheap and would be 1 more 3B to hold down the fort as they wait for Moncada and Devers). Not sure if you're referring to Jeong-ho Kang, the Korean shortstop who had a monster 2014 season, but the word is he won't be posted until after the Winter Meetings. His agent, Alan Nero, says that he would command $100 million if he were Cuban. |
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Post by jrffam05 on Nov 12, 2014 11:32:23 GMT -5
I think the Yankees are going to be very hard to outbid for this guy. They have the LT need at SS, 3B, and 2B, where ever he would end up.
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Post by jrffam05 on Nov 12, 2014 11:50:13 GMT -5
Question (that I think I know the answer to, just want confirmation), Yoan Moncada would get a bonus of 30M or a ML contract worth 30M? I think he is not eligible to sign a ML contract. If it is signing bonus, I would assume this would become the largest signing bonus in sports history, but I could be wrong on that too. EDIT quick and dirty google search shown Manning at 34.5M, a figure Mocada could beat. NFL contracts are not completely guaranteed though.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 12, 2014 12:09:11 GMT -5
Question (that I think I know the answer to, just want confirmation), Yoan Moncada would get a bonus of 30M or a ML contract worth 30M? I think he is not eligible to sign a ML contract. If it is signing bonus, I would assume this would become the largest signing bonus in sports history, but I could be wrong on that too. EDIT quick and dirty google search shown Manning at 34.5M, a figure Mocada could beat. NFL contracts are not completely guaranteed though. But the bonuses are. |
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Post by jrffam05 on Nov 12, 2014 12:13:20 GMT -5
Right, I meant part of their contract is not guaranteed, I meant it to point out signing bonus's are more common in NFL.
Anyway my real question is what format would Moncada get paid, in a bonus or a ML contract.
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nomar
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Posts: 11,607
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Post by nomar on Nov 12, 2014 12:19:52 GMT -5
Castillo is 27 and ready to go, Moncada is a prospect. I don't think comparing their financial situations is that helpful.
I don't see Moncada passing Soler by much because of the 100% tax penalty that will come with him. 30M was a lot for a prospect, and were talking at least double that amount. If he busts, as prospects tend to occasionally, it's going to be a huge blow to whatever team signs him.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 12, 2014 13:27:33 GMT -5
Right, I meant part of their contract is not guaranteed, I meant it to point out signing bonus's are more common in NFL. Anyway my real question is what format would Moncada get paid, in a bonus or a ML contract. It would likely be a major league contract, I think, if we're talking that much money. As you point out, for a player to get a bonus that big is pretty much without precedent in the sport.
The closest cases to analogize to I can think of are Soler, who got a nine-year, $30M deal with a $6M bonus, and Iglesias, who got a four-year, $8.25M deal with a $6M bonus. He'll probably get something like the Soler deal, I'd guess.See below. <tips cap> |
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Post by stevedillard on Nov 12, 2014 13:41:58 GMT -5
the CBA prohibits major league deals, and Soler was the last pre-current CBA signing. So yes, all of the big money is deemed a bonus. Attachment 46: G. Contract Requirements 1. All players who are covered by a Club’s Signing Bonus Pool must sign a Minor League Uniform Player Contract. mlb.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf |
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Post by ethanbein on Nov 12, 2014 13:44:46 GMT -5
Can you give major league contracts to July 2 guys? I know that the most recent CBA eliminated them for draft guys so they wouldn't be rushed to the majors while they're burning options, but I don't know if they changed that for young international players.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Nov 12, 2014 14:04:17 GMT -5
Jesse Sanchez ?@jessesanchezmlb
Reports out of Guatemala: Many scouts @ Y. Moncada workout. In great shape & had decent BP. Ran 60 in 6.6-6.7. Needs more baseball activity.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,607
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Post by nomar on Nov 12, 2014 14:06:00 GMT -5
The internet imploded after "decent".
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Post by jrffam05 on Nov 12, 2014 14:15:04 GMT -5
Right, I meant part of their contract is not guaranteed, I meant it to point out signing bonus's are more common in NFL. Anyway my real question is what format would Moncada get paid, in a bonus or a ML contract. It would likely be a major league contract, I think, if we're talking that much money. As you point out, for a player to get a bonus that big is pretty much without precedent in the sport. The closest cases to analogize to I can think of are Soler, who got a nine-year, $30M deal with a $6M bonus, and Iglesias, who got a four-year, $8.25M deal with a $6M bonus. He'll probably get something like the Soler deal, I'd guess. So if that is the case, a team exceeding the luxury tax would be double taxed? Once for international signings and again for any overages on the luxury tax? |
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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 12, 2014 15:25:21 GMT -5
I think 'their opportunity cost is lower' would be the best way of phrasing this. I'd love to forgo the big 3 3rd basemen and pickup this guy and the Korean David Wright (not sure if he's the answer - but sounds like he would come relatively cheap and would be 1 more 3B to hold down the fort as they wait for Moncada and Devers). Not sure if you're referring to Jeong-ho Kang, the Korean shortstop who had a monster 2014 season, but the word is he won't be posted until after the Winter Meetings. His agent, Alan Nero, says that he would command $100 million if he were Cuban. Was referring to Jeong Choi - think he's a borderline guy who won't get a big contract. Would be a good pickup to give a shot if they don't get one of the big 3. |
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