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Post by greatscottcooper on Dec 4, 2014 15:38:16 GMT -5
It's not that I think Porcello is horrible, nor do I think that he wouldn't improve the rotation as is because he isn't horrible and he does improve the rotation as is. My concern is, we lost Lester/Lackey/Peavy. I can believe that some combination of Kelly and a young arm is going to be able to replace Peavy in the rotation. But I don't think Porcello is going to be an upgrade over Lester or Lackey. Let me put it this way. If the Sox trade for Porcello, and then go out and sign Lester tomorrow who do you hypothetically start for game 2 of the 2015 ALCS? ? Porcello? Buchholz?
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 4, 2014 15:51:02 GMT -5
It's not that I think Porcello is horrible, nor do I think that he wouldn't improve the rotation as is because he isn't horrible and he does improve the rotation as is. My concern is, we lost Lester/Lackey/Peavy. I can believe that some combination of Kelly and a young arm is going to be able to replace Peavy in the rotation. But I don't think Porcello is going to be an upgrade over Lester or Lackey. Let me put it this way. If the Sox trade for Porcello, and then go out and sign Lester tomorrow who do you hypothetically start for game 2 of the 2015 ALCS? ? Porcello? Buchholz? Porcello is hopefully a pretty solid 3 if we got him. Which is more than we have now. And actually, I don't really mind him as a 2, especially if we kept most of our prospects which we could use at the deadline for an upgrade.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 4, 2014 19:35:05 GMT -5
It's not that I think Porcello is horrible, nor do I think that he wouldn't improve the rotation as is because he isn't horrible and he does improve the rotation as is. My concern is, we lost Lester/Lackey/Peavy. I can believe that some combination of Kelly and a young arm is going to be able to replace Peavy in the rotation. But I don't think Porcello is going to be an upgrade over Lester or Lackey. Let me put it this way. If the Sox trade for Porcello, and then go out and sign Lester tomorrow who do you hypothetically start for game 2 of the 2015 ALCS? ? Porcello? Buchholz? Take a Look at Lackey's numbers (FIP 3.86, 3.78) over the past two years and compare them to Porcello (FIP 3.53, 3.67) then factor in that Porcello will be 26 while Lackey will be 36 - so I see him as being pretty comparable to Lackey next year. If Buch is on - he starts game 2. If he's not, Porcello or one of the young guys steps up. If Sale suddenly becomes available then I would be elated, but otherwise Porcello would be a solid addition. Pedro aint walking through that door.
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Post by redsox1534 on Dec 7, 2014 19:40:07 GMT -5
It's not that I think Porcello is horrible, nor do I think that he wouldn't improve the rotation as is because he isn't horrible and he does improve the rotation as is. My concern is, we lost Lester/Lackey/Peavy. I can believe that some combination of Kelly and a young arm is going to be able to replace Peavy in the rotation. But I don't think Porcello is going to be an upgrade over Lester or Lackey. Let me put it this way. If the Sox trade for Porcello, and then go out and sign Lester tomorrow who do you hypothetically start for game 2 of the 2015 ALCS? ? Porcello? Buchholz? Take a Look at Lackey's numbers (FIP 3.86, 3.78) over the past two years and compare them to Porcello (FIP 3.53, 3.67) then factor in that Porcello will be 26 while Lackey will be 36 - so I see him as being pretty comparable to Lackey next year. If Buch is on - he starts game 2. If he's not, Porcello or one of the young guys steps up. If Sale suddenly becomes available then I would be elated, but otherwise Porcello would be a solid addition. Pedro aint walking through that door. Porello is a former top 10 prospect. Who struggled early on out the gate but each year has improved to the point were hes become one of the better up coming young SP in the game. Id love to have him he has #3 upside. I think he could be a #2 and theres some comparison to Lowe, Yes Derek Lowe if u ask me. Id be ok with giving up Ranaudo as well to seal the deal. Porcello is young and could be locked up on a good I believe, nothing outrageous. Hes a ground ball pitcher whos striking guys out. And no Pedro isnt walking threw that door but iv seen a couple guys who have come close to looking like him and we might be able to get one named Jonny Cueto.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 7, 2014 20:00:06 GMT -5
Cueto looks like Pedro? I take it you're not old enough to remember Pedro.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 8, 2014 0:21:20 GMT -5
Cueto took a big jump in K/9 this past year and over the past few years his ERA has been great. But his peripherals (FIP, xFIP, 2011-2013 K/9) have him looking far more like a 2/3 James Shields type. Perhaps his INCREDIBLY low babip numbers of the past 2 seasons (.236, .238) are a true skill, but given the injuries that have limited his playing time, I don't feel comfortable taking that leap of faith quite yet.
To me - Porcello is a close approximation of Cueto (performance wise) with more youth and fewer injury concerns.
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Post by jrffam05 on Dec 8, 2014 11:10:22 GMT -5
If the Tiger's ever offered Porcello for Cespedes I would be dumbfounded as to why Cherington would not accept that trade immediately.
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Post by larrycook on Dec 8, 2014 14:31:28 GMT -5
If the Tiger's ever offered Porcello for Cespedes I would be dumbfounded as to why Cherington would not accept that trade immediately. Supposedly the tigers have asked for the sox to include a starter in addition to cespedes.
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Post by greenmonstah on Dec 9, 2014 19:15:22 GMT -5
Porcello for Cespedes + prospects + some other talent sounds good to me. Would love Porcello, he's really underrated.
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Post by larrycook on Dec 9, 2014 19:33:45 GMT -5
Porcello for Cespedes + prospects + some other talent sounds good to me. Would love Porcello, he's really underrated. Reports are tigers ready to move on, can't wait on sox any longer. Lester is gumming up the works. Cherrington really gambling the other teams will wait.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Dec 9, 2014 19:39:48 GMT -5
Porcello for Cespedes + prospects + some other talent sounds good to me. Would love Porcello, he's really underrated. Reports are tigers ready to move on, can't wait on sox any longer. Lester is gumming up the works. Cherrington really gambling the other teams will wait. What reports?
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Post by jmei on Dec 9, 2014 20:55:49 GMT -5
Porcello for Cespedes + prospects + some other talent sounds good to me. Would love Porcello, he's really underrated. Reports are tigers ready to move on, can't wait on sox any longer. Lester is gumming up the works. Cherrington really gambling the other teams will wait. You need to start citing your sources or I will start deleting your posts. This is not the first time you've been warned about this.
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Post by amfox1 on Dec 9, 2014 21:55:35 GMT -5
Peter Gammons ?@pgammo 8m8 minutes ago Always thought Scherzer would go back to Detroit, but one Tiger official says "not happening," but might do Porcello for Cespedes & DeLarosa
Peter Gammons ?@pgammo 7m7 minutes ago @pgammo or other depth arms. Porcello and his Father are building a house in Vermont and would love to go to Boston
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Post by jmei on Dec 9, 2014 21:57:18 GMT -5
I wouldn't include De La Rosa, but I'd do that deal with Workman or Ranaudo in his place.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 9, 2014 22:05:14 GMT -5
I wouldn't include De La Rosa, but I'd do that deal with Workman or Ranaudo in his place. I'd prefer to include someone from that next tier like Workman or Ranaudo too, but Porcello is only four months older than De La Rosa. I'd probably want Detroit to include a lottery-ticket type, but I think I might do it. The Red Sox must have an idea of the market for Cespedes at this point and whether he's worth more than the upgrade from RDLR to Porcello. EDIT: This is in response to a couple posts in another thread, moved here so that we don't get too far off track. If you think De La Rosa is a reliever, you do that deal. Now that Mariano Rivera has retired, the best reliever in baseball isn't worth as much as the 100th best starter, and Porcello is comfortably in the Top 100.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Dec 9, 2014 22:16:24 GMT -5
I think the board here convinced me that I'd be willing to trade Cespedes for Porcello, I can admit that I was wrong, but I'm not sure if I'd do RDLR for Porcello straight up, let alone with Cespedes. I do think we have more young 4/5 starters than we need (axioms about never having enough pitching aside) so I'm willing to include a few like Webster/Workman/Ranaudo (with Cespedes) in a deal to upgrade a rotation spot with Porcello. Lester/FA + Porcello + Kelly + Buchholz + RDLR would be a pretty good rotation.
Per James' Post, I consider RDLR a starter.
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Post by cambos174 on Dec 9, 2014 22:45:15 GMT -5
I may be overvaluing RdLR but that'd be a HORRIBLE deal in my opinion. I wouldn't move RDLR for Porcello straight up, just like I don't see the sox getting Wheeler, for example, for Cespedes straight up.
Porcello is a nice pitcher and I'd be happy to have him on board, but man, no way for both those guys.
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Post by sibbysisti on Dec 9, 2014 22:51:53 GMT -5
This doesn't have to get done at the Meetings. There will still be a demand for power hitters and of which there are few outside of Cespedes.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 16, 2014 5:04:12 GMT -5
I wouldn't include De La Rosa, but I'd do that deal with Workman or Ranaudo in his place. I'd do it with Alex Wilson and a C prospect (someone like Gabe Speier), but I understand that's unrealistic. (Translation: refreshingly for the Internet, we tend to offer too much in these proposed threads ... and why isn't this thread locked, along with several others?)
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