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Post by jdb on Nov 21, 2014 10:44:35 GMT -5
Buster mentions today that Porcello could be available. Curious what everyone's thoughts on him are? Seems like a guy trending in the right direction who could provide innings. Of course we need a top shelf guy but as a second starter acquisition goes we could do worse than Porcello. They may need a Tori Hunter replacement as well. insider.espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney/post/_/id/8669
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Post by dmaineah on Nov 21, 2014 11:06:47 GMT -5
Rick Porcello is projected to get $12.2m in arbitration and GM Dave Dombrowski is reportedly looking to free up some cash to address other areas of need, specifically in the Outfielder and Bullpen. In the last 6 years he has made 31 starts 4 times and never started less then 27 or pitched less then 162 innings. He will be 26 in December and not a free agent until 2016.
Heath Hembree & Jackie Bradley JR for Rick Porcello.
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Post by jdb on Nov 21, 2014 11:42:03 GMT -5
I think they just traded for a CF to platoon with Davis but if they are looking for a corner bat to replace Hunter Cespedes makes sense. Similar salaries and both seem to have similar value.
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Post by mattpicard on Nov 21, 2014 11:49:32 GMT -5
Buster mentions today that Porcello could be available. Curious what everyone's thoughts on him are? Seems like a guy trending in the right direction who could provide innings. Of course we need a top shelf guy but as a second starter acquisition goes we could do worse than Porcello. They may need a Tori Hunter replacement as well. insider.espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney/post/_/id/8669He's a pretty solid starter, but his propensity to induce ground balls may be marginalized by a left side of a Bogaerts and a non-plus third baseman. Also, I'm not sure Detroit would be too keen on moving him considering the likely departure of Scherzer and Verlander's 2014 issues. While we have a surplus of outfielders and they need a right fielder, I'm not sure the likes of Bradley, Craig, Holt, or Victorino will be too appealing to them. Cespedes wouldn't be ideal due to the presence of JD Martinez and the RHH-heavy lineup, but he's probably the only option of ours who could possibly work.
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Post by jmei on Nov 21, 2014 12:17:10 GMT -5
I would trade Cespedes for Porcello and be very happy about it. Porcello is chronically underrated and I'd be satisfied with him as the second-best pitcher in the rotation entering 2015. He's also young enough that you'd consider extending him.
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Post by mattpicard on Nov 21, 2014 12:23:08 GMT -5
I would trade Cespedes for Porcello and be very happy about it. Porcello is chronically underrated and I'd be satisfied with him as the second-best pitcher in the rotation entering 2015. He's also young enough that you'd consider extending him. In a heartbeat. I'm just not sure Detroit does it. Cespedes certainly helps the offensive side of the "win-now" mode, and despite the big bats they are set to field plus defense at the up-the-middle positions. But that said, detracting one of the most reliable options from a rotation facing some major question marks may not be too wise.
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Post by jmei on Nov 21, 2014 12:35:58 GMT -5
Detroit does also have Price and Sanchez who have been steady and very good, along with a possible bounce-back by Verlander. They will probably give one spot to a young guy (Ray, Lobstein) and can use the money indirectly saved by acquiring Cespedes to add a veteran mid-rotation guy in free agency.
Like you said, it doesn't make a ton of sense, but you could see the Tigers deciding that the FA SPs are better than the FA bats and so decide to use Porcello to get a bat and fill that rotation hole by signing a free agent. Not likely but plausible.
ADD: if it was something like Cespedes and Webster for Porcello, I might still do it (and would obviously be happy to substitute in Workman or Ranaudo for Webster).
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 21, 2014 13:05:51 GMT -5
They are also supposedly listening on Price.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Nov 21, 2014 13:25:51 GMT -5
They are also supposedly listening on Price. But if we traded for Price, how would he throw at our heads?
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Post by p23w on Nov 21, 2014 19:17:54 GMT -5
I would trade Cespedes for Porcello and be very happy about it. Porcello is chronically underrated and I'd be satisfied with him as the second-best pitcher in the rotation entering 2015. He's also young enough that you'd consider extending him. In a heartbeat. I'm just not sure Detroit does it. Cespedes certainly helps the offensive side of the "win-now" mode, and despite the big bats they are set to field plus defense at the up-the-middle positions. But that said, detracting one of the most reliable options from a rotation facing some major question marks may not be too wise. +1
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Nov 22, 2014 0:51:44 GMT -5
Based on Steamer projected FIP, career ERA-FIP regressed, and a little bit of opponent quality splits, I have Porcello as the 7th best walk-year pitcher we might reasonably get, after Cueto, Iwakuma, Samardzija, Leake, and Kazmir (with Latos somewhere in there, as Steamer doesn't know about his injury specifics). If you got creative and did a 3-team trade, you could add Jordan Zimmerman and Doug Fister to that list.
He wouldn't suck, but that quick-and-dirty evaluation suggests we could do better, perhaps a good deal better.
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Post by larrycook on Dec 3, 2014 20:16:24 GMT -5
Sports writers suggesting tigers want to expand the porcello for cespedes trade to include us sending then a starter as well.
Not sure what else we would receive.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Dec 3, 2014 21:24:18 GMT -5
I don't think that I'd do Cespedes for Porcello straight up, so hopefully they'd be adding something if we have to add anything.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 3, 2014 21:33:01 GMT -5
I don't think that I'd do Cespedes for Porcello straight up, so hopefully they'd be adding something if we have to add anything. A young pitcher with two years of control left, coming off his best year, in which he was better than Cespedes? Porcello is more valuable. I think we're better off packaging Cespedes with specs to get an even better starter though. Porcello is a good pit her though. Overlooked.
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Post by larrycook on Dec 3, 2014 21:47:28 GMT -5
I don't think that I'd do Cespedes for Porcello straight up, so hopefully they'd be adding something if we have to add anything. We toss in Rubby and they add in Iglesias?
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Post by kingofthetrill on Dec 3, 2014 22:35:52 GMT -5
I don't think that I'd do Cespedes for Porcello straight up, so hopefully they'd be adding something if we have to add anything. A young pitcher with two years of control left, coming off his best year, in which he was better than Cespedes? Porcello is more valuable. I think we're better off packaging Cespedes with specs to get an even better starter though. Porcello is a good pit her though. Overlooked. I feel like Porcello is a #3 starter at best. I think the Sox need to sign Lester and trade for a #2 starter. We can disagree on whether or not Cespedes is equal to Porcello, but regardless I don't think we should be pursuing Porcello for our rotation. I'd rather trade Cespedes + pieces for a better starter than trade Cespedes for Porcello straight up. I feel like if Boston wanted Porcello with Cespedes (+/-) that they'd have done it already.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 3, 2014 22:52:26 GMT -5
Porcello is better than a) Cespedes and b) every pitcher currently in the Red Sox organization. If it's Cespedes for Porcello straight on, the Red Sox should do it. Not pulling the trigger because he's not better by the amount you want him to be better is kind of silly.
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Post by sibbysisti on Dec 3, 2014 22:53:25 GMT -5
A young pitcher with two years of control left, coming off his best year, in which he was better than Cespedes? Porcello is more valuable. I think we're better off packaging Cespedes with specs to get an even better starter though. Porcello is a good pit her though. Overlooked. I feel like Porcello is a #3 starter at best. I think the Sox need to sign Lester and trade for a #2 starter. We can disagree on whether or not Cespedes is equal to Porcello, but regardless I don't think we should be pursuing Porcello for our rotation. I'd rather trade Cespedes + pieces for a better starter than trade Cespedes for Porcello straight up. I feel like if Boston wanted Porcello with Cespedes (+/-) that they'd have done it already. With the Winter Meetings coming up next week the Sox would be wise to market Cespedes to all the assembled brethren rather than accept Detroit's offer. Cruz is off the board, so teams looking to add a RH power bat will be bidding on Cespedes. Nice problem for Ben to have.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 3, 2014 23:54:45 GMT -5
Porcello is better than a) Cespedes and b) every pitcher currently in the Red Sox organization. If it's Cespedes for Porcello straight on, the Red Sox should do it. Not pulling the trigger because he's not better by the amount you want him to be better is kind of silly. All of the posts after my Cueto one belong in the Cespedes thread, not this one ... If you need to clear three other 40-man roster spaces, and you have Ranaudo, Holt, and a reliever who are surplus, and those guys could be added to Cespedes in order to get a pitcher better than Porcello, than Cespedes for Porcello straight up needs to be part of a bigger deal. Perhaps flip him, Ranaudo, and Holt to the Nats for Zimmerman.
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Post by jmei on Dec 4, 2014 8:03:06 GMT -5
I'm skeptical of the idea that you can trade Cespedes for a decent pitcher and then flip that pitcher and prospects for a better pitcher.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 4, 2014 9:49:16 GMT -5
Sports writers suggesting tigers want to expand the porcello for cespedes trade to include us sending then a starter as well. Not sure what else we would receive. No. Assuming you're talking about the Jayson Stark tweet, he was basically just saying the Red Sox and Tigers matched up for a trade, or at least that's the most that I'd read into "seem to have the makings" for a trade. If you've got other sources, post them, but otherwise, no, that's not what he said.
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Post by dmaineah on Dec 4, 2014 10:20:02 GMT -5
Porcello is better than a) Cespedes and b) every pitcher currently in the Red Sox organization. If it's Cespedes for Porcello straight on, the Red Sox should do it. Not pulling the trigger because he's not better by the amount you want him to be better is kind of silly. Absolutely
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Post by greatscottcooper on Dec 4, 2014 14:51:43 GMT -5
Am I the only one who is very mehhh on Porcello?
He's got good control but his stuff is very hitable. He doesn't strike guys out and he had a career year last year. Sure he's young and perhaps his next 3 years will mirror his 2014 season rather than his career averages but I don't think he's anything more than a #3 right now at best.
Does he push a Ranaudo/Webster/RDLR type out of the rotation??? or do the Sox actually role with Kelly/Porcello/Buchholz/RDLR as 4/5 of the rotation?
This potential move just seems like the Sox are moving sideways to me.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 4, 2014 15:15:04 GMT -5
Am I the only one who is very mehhh on Porcello? He's got good control but his stuff is very hitable. He doesn't strike guys out and he had a career year last year. Sure he's young and perhaps his next 3 years will mirror his 2014 season rather than his career averages but I don't think he's anything more than a #3 right now at best. Does he push a Ranaudo/Webster/RDLR type out of the rotation??? or do the Sox actually role with Kelly/Porcello/Buchholz/RDLR as 4/5 of the rotation? This potential move just seems like the Sox are moving sideways to me. Sideways from what? Porcello improves the rotation right now. We have Buchholz and Kelly as the 1/2 so far.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 4, 2014 15:18:55 GMT -5
Am I the only one who is very mehhh on Porcello? He's got good control but his stuff is very hitable. He doesn't strike guys out and he had a career year last year. Sure he's young and perhaps his next 3 years will mirror his 2014 season rather than his career averages but I don't think he's anything more than a #3 right now at best. Does he push a Ranaudo/Webster/RDLR type out of the rotation??? or do the Sox actually role with Kelly/Porcello/Buchholz/RDLR as 4/5 of the rotation? This potential move just seems like the Sox are moving sideways to me. What you're leaving out on Porcello is: - He has been a solid #3 for 3 years (FIP 3.91, 3.53, 3.67) - He's a former first round pick - which indicates his talent level is high - He is ONLY 25 (about to turn 26). So he is just about to reach his peak years and could potentially become a #2 as soon as next year. Would a Samardjiza be better? Sure. But the expectation is that Porcello will come cheaper and he could turn into a steal as he hits his prime years.
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