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Assembling the 25-man Roster for 2015
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Post by pedey on Dec 12, 2014 9:33:47 GMT -5
The sox have a series of acquisitions in recent weeks and it appears that the majority of the roster is all set for 2015. However, cherington most likely isn't done this offseason. This is my 25-man roster preiction:
C: Swihart (I think he will have the starting job by June) 1B: Napoli 2B: Pedroia SS: Bogaerts 3B: Sandoval LF: Ramirez CF: Castillo RF: Betts DH: Ortiz BE: Holt BE: Craig BE: Nava/Victorino (I think one of them will be traded) BE: Vazquez SP1: Buchholz SP2: Porcello SP3: Miley SP4: Masterson SP5: Kelley RP: Wright (Longman/swingman) RP: Britton (lefty specialist) RP: Escobar (anyone see him ever starting?) RP: Mujica RP: Tazawa RP: Workman CP: Uehara
Im guessing that one of Owens, Rodriguez, johnson, Barnes, or ranaudo winning a permanent rotation spot at some point in the season. I see Craig staying, as his trade value is low and he is a great right handed hitter if healthy.
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Post by michaelgelbwasser on Dec 12, 2014 9:50:34 GMT -5
C: Vazquez 1B: Napoli 2B: Pedroia SS: Bogaerts 3B: Sandoval LF: Ramirez CF: Castillo RF: Betts DH: Ortiz BE: Holt BE: Craig BE: Victorino BE: Butler SP1: Buchholz SP2: Porcello SP3: Miley SP4: Kelly SP5: Masterson RP: Wright RP: Britton RP: Badenhop RP: Mujica RP: Tazawa RP: Workman CP: Uehara
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Post by gatorgreenwell on Dec 12, 2014 9:53:20 GMT -5
The sox have a series of acquisitions in recent weeks and it appears that the majority of the roster is all set for 2015. However, cherington most likely isn't done this offseason. This is my 25-man roster preiction: C: Swihart (I think he will have the starting job by June) 1B: Napoli 2B: Pedroia SS: Bogaerts 3B: Sandoval LF: Ramirez CF: Castillo RF: Betts DH: Ortiz BE: Holt BE: Craig BE: Nava/Victorino (I think one of them will be traded) BE: Vazquez SP1: Buchholz SP2: Porcello SP3: Miley SP4: Masterson SP5: Kelley RP: Wright (Longman/swingman) RP: Britton (lefty specialist) RP: Escobar (anyone see him ever starting?) RP: Mujica RP: Tazawa RP: Workman CP: Uehara Im guessing that one of Owens, Rodriguez, johnson, Barnes, or ranaudo winning a permanent rotation spot at some point in the season. I see Craig staying, as his trade value is low and he is a great right handed hitter if healthy. So you think they're done? Which guy gets booted from the rotation for one of the kids? Also - do you really think the Sox will go into the season with Wright on the 25 man roster? I just don't see it. We do have a bit of a logjam to deal with in RF/1st base with Betts, Vic, Craig, Nava, and Napoli. I don't think Betts is going anywhere. Craig doesn't have any value to move, so I think he stays too. Not sure what the solution is.
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Post by mattpicard on Dec 12, 2014 10:09:00 GMT -5
The sox have a series of acquisitions in recent weeks and it appears that the majority of the roster is all set for 2015. However, cherington most likely isn't done this offseason. This is my 25-man roster preiction: C: Swihart (I think he will have the starting job by June) 1B: Napoli 2B: Pedroia SS: Bogaerts 3B: Sandoval LF: Ramirez CF: Castillo RF: Betts DH: Ortiz BE: Holt BE: Craig BE: Nava/Victorino (I think one of them will be traded) BE: Vazquez SP1: Buchholz SP2: Porcello SP3: Miley SP4: Masterson SP5: Kelley RP: Wright (Longman/swingman) RP: Britton (lefty specialist) RP: Escobar (anyone see him ever starting?) RP: Mujica RP: Tazawa RP: Workman CP: Uehara Im guessing that one of Owens, Rodriguez, johnson, Barnes, or ranaudo winning a permanent rotation spot at some point in the season. I see Craig staying, as his trade value is low and he is a great right handed hitter if healthy. So you think they're done? Which guy gets booted from the rotation for one of the kids? Also - do you really think the Sox will go into the season with Wright on the 25 man roster? I just don't see it. We do have a bit of a logjam to deal with in RF/1st base with Betts, Vic, Craig, Nava, and Napoli. I don't think Betts is going anywhere. Craig doesn't have any value to move, so I think he stays too. Not sure what the solution is. The solution to me, pretty clearly, is to move Victorino. I wouldn't expect much of a return, with the primary hope being that the team receiving him covers as much of the $13 million he's owed as possible. The Sox have indicated that a Castillo/Betts/Victorino split between CF/RF would work well, and it probably would, if not for the fact that there are other capable options on the bench. Victorino is pretty unreliable due to his fragility, and while his defense likely remains above average in RF despite the injuries, he doesn't offer the versatility of Nava, Craig, and Holt. It also doesn't help that he hits only right handed these days. If you move Shane, you're left with a super-utility stud in Holt, and essentially what figures to be a highly productive bench platoon of Nava and Craig, who could easily slide into starting roles if the need arises.
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Post by dmaineah on Dec 12, 2014 10:31:49 GMT -5
C - Vazquez 1B - Napoli 2B - Pedroia 3B - Sandoval SS - Bogaerts LF - Ramirez CF - Castillo RF - Victorino DH - Ortiz
Craig Nava Holt/Betts (1 down to AAA - both have options) Hanigan
Buchholz Porcello Miley Kelly Masterson/Competition ( Wright, Workman, Barnes, Rodriguez, Escobar )
Uehara Mujica Tazawa Breslow Varvaro Ross Ogando /Competition (Masterson, Wright, Workman, Barnes, Layne, Spruill, Hembree, Escobar)
Assuming everyone is healthy at the end of spring training I think 1 of Betts or Holt start the season in AAA and they trade 1 of Nava or Victorino during the first weeks of the season to bring him back up.
I think Buchholz, Porcello, Miley & Kelly are all locks to start the season in the rotation. I think Masterson has to earn a rotation spot. If he gets beaten out of a rotation spot by one of the kids he will be a part of the bullpen.
I could see 3 spots in the Bullpen (or 2 if Masterson is in the pen) being a competition between Breslow, Varvaro, Ross and others to start the season.
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Post by elguapo on Dec 12, 2014 10:47:24 GMT -5
I think they keep Victorino & do the OF rotation. Hanley could see time at 3B or DH as well.
With the new-look rotation, an 11-man staff is a possibility. I expect they'll try to juggle the roster to keep Craig and Nava as long as possible. Injuries happen.
Obviously if they get a good offer, Nava or Craig is gone; I'm just skeptical that there's a good match out there. Holt too, perhaps, though we'd need a replacement, preferably one who can play a good SS; an Everth Cabrera without the issues.
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Post by The Town Sports Cards on Dec 12, 2014 10:49:25 GMT -5
If they don't trade one of Victorino, Craig, or Nava, then Betts starts 2015 in AAA and you have: C Vazquez 1B Napoli 2B Pedroia SS Bogaerts 3B Sandoval LF Ramirez CF Castillo RF Victorino DH Ortiz BN Acquisition (Backup Catcher) BN Holt BN Craig BN Nava
SP Porcello SP Miley SP Buchholz SP Masterson (Contract escalators are based on innings, he's going to start) SP Kelly RP Acquisition RP Acquisition RP Layne RP Workman RP Mujica RP Tazawa RP Uehara
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 12, 2014 10:53:39 GMT -5
It's way too early for this type of guessing...
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Post by down225 on Dec 12, 2014 11:13:20 GMT -5
It's way too early for this type of guessing... Agree. I think there are more moves to come and most posters seem to have high expectations for Craig to perform. He has options and may likely start is AAA. Way to early for this.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 12, 2014 12:20:58 GMT -5
I think they can be done for now. The current situation makes things difficult to start they year, but they no longer have to do anything.
1) Rotation - they can start the year with it and add at the deadline if need be. Cherington has done a good job of substantially improving their bargaining positions with FAs or RAJ. They no longer have gaping holes in the rotation that need to be filled by SOMEONE. The current five all probably have floors of at least a number 5 - or in other words, legit MLB starters - and nearly all could be much more than that (as opposed to the guys they had fighting it out for the #5 spot before, who all had floors well lower than that) and they can still go out and add here.
2) Bullpen - they're probably going to get one more high-leverage-ish guy, preferably a LHP. Maybe they'll get a Badenhop-type MR as well, but Workman might fill that role now. Could also depend on how acquiring another starter goes.
3) Lineup - There's still certainly a logjam. Right now, they have four guys in Craig, Holt, Nava, and whoever isn't starting on a given day from Betts/Castillo/Shanf for three spots. Holt kind of needs to be on the roster to back up SS (I doubt they'd use Hanley or Betts to do that, although it's a feasible-ish option). That said, this is a logjam you can go into ST with. Remember the rotation logjam last year pre-Dempster retirement? I see it more like that than the unsustainable situation pre-Cespedes trade.
I see what happened the last week or so as the following: - They took a shot with Lester and failed, so acquiring the front-of-the-rotation guy went to the back burner. They had their number, probably pushed past it a little, and stuck to their guns. In terms of process at least, good for them (again, assessing the winter meetings, not the overall process beginning last offseason - that's another discussion no matter your position on it). - Cherington then took assets and rearranged them. He turned RDLR and Webster (and a very low minors asset of some sort - we'll see here) into Miley, whose floor is far higher and whose ceiling, frankly, isn't much lower. He turned one asset from a position of unsustainable excess (OF) into an asset in a position of absolute need (SP) in the Cespedes-Porcello deal by adding a fungible RP in Wilson (freeing up his 40-man spot, I might add) and a long-way-away potential arm who is probably a reliever in the end in Speier. While you can debate in either direction whether these moves were trading assets of equal value or not (in either direction), it definitely took fungible assets and turned them into useful ones (from an on-field perspective). As long as the value is in that "arguable either way" range, this results in a net positive, imo.
I'm happy with where they are, understanding that this is a fluid process. This could be the roster they have entering spring training. There's no way it's the roster they'll have in August. I'm excited to follow the journey from where it is now to that latter point.
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alnipper
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Post by alnipper on Dec 12, 2014 12:42:58 GMT -5
My thought on RP is as follows. I think the Sox should bring back Badenhop. As far as a LHP the Sox could sign a FA, which there are several available. The Sox could see if Britton or Escobar can win the spot.
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Post by jmei on Dec 12, 2014 16:04:23 GMT -5
So you think they're done? Which guy gets booted from the rotation for one of the kids? Also - do you really think the Sox will go into the season with Wright on the 25 man roster? I just don't see it. We do have a bit of a logjam to deal with in RF/1st base with Betts, Vic, Craig, Nava, and Napoli. I don't think Betts is going anywhere. Craig doesn't have any value to move, so I think he stays too. Not sure what the solution is. The solution to me, pretty clearly, is to move Victorino. I wouldn't expect much of a return, with the primary hope being that the team receiving him covers as much of the $13 million he's owed as possible. The Sox have indicated that a Castillo/Betts/Victorino split between CF/RF would work well, and it probably would, if not for the fact that there are other capable options on the bench. Victorino is pretty unreliable due to his fragility, and while his defense likely remains above average in RF despite the injuries, he doesn't offer the versatility of Nava, Craig, and Holt. It also doesn't help that he hits only right handed these days. If you move Shane, you're left with a super-utility stud in Holt, and essentially what figures to be a highly productive bench platoon of Nava and Craig, who could easily slide into starting roles if the need arises. I strongly disagree with moving Victorino just to move him, as I discussed here. Unreliable does not mean bad, especially since they have multiple starting-caliber backup outfield options (think Nava, Castillo, Craig) for when Victorino needs a few days off. If Victorino is even 75% of what he was in 2013, their best outfield alignment is Ramirez/Betts/Victorino, right?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 12, 2014 16:05:04 GMT -5
I'd like to see the Sox use some of their young pitchers in a relief role like the Cardinals do. I think someone like Barnes could be a weapon in the pen. You can always move him back next year.
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Post by mattpicard on Dec 12, 2014 16:23:40 GMT -5
The solution to me, pretty clearly, is to move Victorino. I wouldn't expect much of a return, with the primary hope being that the team receiving him covers as much of the $13 million he's owed as possible. The Sox have indicated that a Castillo/Betts/Victorino split between CF/RF would work well, and it probably would, if not for the fact that there are other capable options on the bench. Victorino is pretty unreliable due to his fragility, and while his defense likely remains above average in RF despite the injuries, he doesn't offer the versatility of Nava, Craig, and Holt. It also doesn't help that he hits only right handed these days. If you move Shane, you're left with a super-utility stud in Holt, and essentially what figures to be a highly productive bench platoon of Nava and Craig, who could easily slide into starting roles if the need arises. I strongly disagree with moving Victorino just to move him, as I discussed here. Unreliable does not mean bad, especially since they have multiple starting-caliber backup outfield options (think Nava, Castillo, Craig) for when Victorino needs a few days off. If Victorino is even 75% of what he was in 2013, their best outfield alignment is Ramirez/Betts/Victorino, right? Well, if he's 75% of what he was in 2013, we're talking about a 4.2 fWAR player. So, while that obviously would be the our best outfield alignment, there's a very slim chance that happens. He's now 34, hampered with injuries and coming off serious surgery, and there was some flukiness fueling his RHH vs. RHP numbers in 2013. If we consider him to be a slightly below average hitter vs. RHP going forward, and regress his defense from elite to something like +5 runs in RF, that's absolutely a player I move to allow Castillo and Betts to get everyday at bats, and utilize the availability of a plus LH bat in Nava. FWIW, Steamer predicts a 2.1 WAR for Victorino in 2015, which is lower than what it expects from Betts', and is probably a reasonable number to expect from Castillo. ADD: Now, his Steamer600 has him at 2.9 WAR, which ranks 27th of all MLB outfielders. It speaks to your point that you don't want to move a guy like that for a minimal return, as I implied I'd be OK with, but there's probably a near-universal consensus that Steamer's 97 game/435 PA projection is about right, if not optimistic, considering Victorino's last couple seasons physically. So yes, you want to get something back, but if it's salary relief + a reliable reliever, or a B-level type prospect, I say go for it.
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Post by jmei on Dec 12, 2014 17:14:30 GMT -5
Even if we assume that Victorino is a 2.1 win player next year (which I don't necessarily disagree with), is that a player that you should have to eat money to move? Hell, he might be underpaid if that's the case, especially because he'd be just a one-year commitment.
But Boston would probably have to eat money to move him in the next few weeks, because other teams are understandably wary about his health. The obvious solution to me is to hold onto him until the end of Spring Training, because by that point he's either shown that he's healthy (and thus raised his trade value enough that Boston won't have to eat much/any money and should get something of value in return), or, if he's still gimpy, he can start the season on the DL and be potentially useful depth a month into the season.
Remember, the only negatives to carrying Victorino are (a) he might crowd someone off the roster and (b) his salary. But they don't have to set a 25-man until Spring Training, so there's no reason to make a decision before then (especially since his value is likely to increase between now and then). That's especially true because one injury to any position player is all it takes to ease any potential logjam. And ownership has indicated that it's willing to go over the luxury tax this year, so I'm not sure that clearing salary should be a driving motivation either. Based on their public quotes, they'd be happy to pay an extra $10m or so in 2015 if it makes them the best possible team and if it's a one-year obligation.
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danr
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Post by danr on Dec 12, 2014 17:21:27 GMT -5
Agree that keeping Victorino for the time being makes sense. If he could stand it, I wouldn't mind him being the 4th OF, but it probably is not a good use of him and his salary. But certainly, he really isn't marketable until he shows he can play. If he shows anything close to his past form, it shouldn't be hard to move him.
And, of course, there always is the possibility that something goes wrong with one of the starters in ST.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 12, 2014 17:34:30 GMT -5
If you wait till spring training won't most teams have made moves to fill their roster by then? Sure you can prove he's healthy, but the amount of teams needing an OF would be lower. I would also assume that a lot of teams will have reached their dollar limit by that point. Victorino makes a lot of money and if you don't want to eat a large portion of it, there won't be many teams that can take on that kind of salary in spring training.
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danr
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Post by danr on Dec 12, 2014 17:37:35 GMT -5
If Victorino shows he is anywhere close to what he was in 2013, he will be better than at least half of the outfielders in the starting lineups of quite a few teams, including some contenders.
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Post by jmei on Dec 12, 2014 18:08:08 GMT -5
If you wait till spring training won't most teams have made moves to fill their roster by then? Sure you can prove he's healthy, but the amount of teams needing an OF would be lower. I would also assume that a lot of teams will have reached their dollar limit by that point. Victorino makes a lot of money and if you don't want to eat a large portion of it, there won't be many teams that can take on that kind of salary in spring training. On the contrary, a lot of players get injured during Spring Training, which can make teams more desperate. There is also a higher supply of available OFs now compared to ST, which means teams will be willing to pay a higher price in a few months. Fair point about budgets, though. The Red Sox will likely have to eat money to move him in ST, though they will get a better return package for doing so. If ownership decides that they need to cut salary (perhaps in connection with a major SP acquisition), I could see begrudgingly moving Victorino now, but otherwise, I don't see any benefit from doing so.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 12, 2014 19:14:58 GMT -5
If you wait till spring training won't most teams have made moves to fill their roster by then? Sure you can prove he's healthy, but the amount of teams needing an OF would be lower. I would also assume that a lot of teams will have reached their dollar limit by that point. Victorino makes a lot of money and if you don't want to eat a large portion of it, there won't be many teams that can take on that kind of salary in spring training. On the contrary, a lot of players get injured during Spring Training, which can make teams more desperate. There is also a higher supply of available OFs now compared to ST, which means teams will be willing to pay a higher price in a few months. Fair point about budgets, though. The Red Sox will likely have to eat money to move him in ST, though they will get a better return package for doing so. If ownership decides that they need to cut salary (perhaps in connection with a major SP acquisition), I could see begrudgingly moving Victorino now, but otherwise, I don't see any benefit from doing so. To me, waiting till ST to solve the logjam is obviously the thing to do. And not just because injuries will create demand for your players. -- Any kind of serious ST injury to Ramirez, Betts, Castillo, Victorino, Nava, Craig, Ortiz, Napoli, Pedroia, or Sandoval not just solves the logjam, but makes you glad you didn't dump anyone. And it's possible that Holt and Bogaerts belong on that list as well (depending on the ability of Betts and Ramirez to handle SS). -- You can find out in ST whether you can use Ramirez and Betts in some combo as the backup MI, in which case you can solve the logjam by trading Holt, who could start at 2B for some teams. -- If it's Craig that you decide to move, there's a good chance that he'll have increased trade value because he looks healthy and good to the scouting eye.
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Post by p23w on Dec 13, 2014 17:15:44 GMT -5
I think the biggest surprise for everyone who posts or reads this board will be in the bullpen that the RS break camp with coming out of ST. Cherington will put the pieces in place, but Farrell will determine the opening day roster. I can readily envision Farrell lobbying Cherington for an acquisition before the team breaks camp. Should be interesting.
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