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Post by amfox1 on Jun 21, 2015 10:08:39 GMT -5
But I have to disagree about the your suggested move. I'd be upset if the Sox included Owens, Johnson, Kopech, or Guerra in a trade just to offload salary. That's way too much prospect, IMO. How much salary relief are they worth? It sounds like you are having more of a visceral reaction than a logical one.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jun 21, 2015 10:28:19 GMT -5
I would have a bigger issue with the fact that the Dbacks got a $1 billion TV contract this past offseason. Thus there really should not have been any financial reason to trade Arroyo and one their top pitching prospects for a utility infielder at best. Also, the Red Sox do not need to make a similar bad trade for financial reasons, particularly when Napoli, Victorino and Masterson come off the books after the 2015 season.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 21, 2015 10:33:45 GMT -5
Maybe, Amfox. I'm not sure how much salary relief they are worth to be honest. I really don't have a way to evaluate that. Although I'm sure the front office has some ways they would make that calculation.
I think a lot might depend on their internal scouting evaluations of those players. Kopech, for example, is an interesting guy. Do they think he reaches his potential and is a solid #2? If so, that's pretty valuable as the Sox haven't been in a position very often to get those types of guys and seemingly haven't developed many recently (Lester), although maybe E Rod is that next #2 guy? Otherwise it's Kopech and Espinoza with that (somewhat realistic) top of rotation potential, right? I think you need to keep those guys around.
It would obviously depend on what you're getting in return.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jun 21, 2015 10:41:34 GMT -5
Just wow. Ben should have offered something they wanted just a bit more. We could then DFA Arroyo in August if we don't really have a spot for him then. That would be worth it to acquire Toussaint. I mean the DBacks should have just done that if they didn't know what to do with Arroyo. This makes no sense. The Red Sox are over the luxury tax, so acquiring Arroyo would be for the remainder of this year's salary, the buyout amount and the luxury tax associated with this year's salary (and next, if over the threshold). Toussaint is not worth anywhere near that amount. In fact, if the Red Sox could trade assets to get below the luxury tax threshold (I believe they would need to trade approx. $9mm in this year's AAV to do so), it might be worth it to throw in a prospect to do so. In other words, if the Red Sox could offload Masterson and Victorino and their combined $22.5mm salaries (let's assume for the sake of argument that they would get 50% AAV relief and get safely below the threshold), the Red Sox would save 17.5% in penalties on the approx. $9mm in luxury tax overage and it would give them flexibility to exceed the luxury tax threshold next year without incurring 30% penalties. To a team currently with tied for the 4th worst record in baseball, the financial savings are significant, plus it frees up the two roster spots for the rest of the year. For this, I would definitely consider throwing in a bottom-of-the-top-100 prospect or an A-ball lottery ticket (Owens, Johnson, Barnes, Kopech, Guerra). I think your premise is right, but the Yanks, Dodgers, and Sox don't think like you. I remember you buying the Yanks saying they didn't want to go over when it was a clear smoke screen. I don't think the luxury tax bothers the Sox as much as you do.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 21, 2015 13:37:55 GMT -5
Why hasn't Tabata been HBP yet?
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 21, 2015 13:38:55 GMT -5
Why hasn't Tabata been HBP yet? Beats the ump would eject the pitcher
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 21, 2015 13:45:06 GMT -5
II've been running around so I just saw yesterday's Braves-Diamondbacks deal. My god.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 21, 2015 13:52:08 GMT -5
Don't teams have some kind of insurance for injured players? Even if they didn't, Arroyo is due what, $7-8 million?
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 21, 2015 13:55:34 GMT -5
Why hasn't Tabata been HBP yet? Beats the ump would eject the pitcher Uh, no. That'd only happen if the team's received pregame warnings.
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 21, 2015 13:57:24 GMT -5
Beats the ump would eject the pitcher Uh, no. That'd only happen if the team's received pregame warnings. Um no. I believe the ump can eject if he feels it's intentional
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 21, 2015 14:01:12 GMT -5
They usually only do that if the intentional HBP is around a guy's head.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jun 21, 2015 19:31:23 GMT -5
On the replay looked like the Pitt batter leaned into the pitch as he got hit. It's funny that Mr. Hatfield and I were talking about this just the other day in another thread. If ever a umpire should have stepped up and called the batter back ,that was it. Max is in rare air. Only the 5th pitcher in history to throw a no no and 1 hitter back to back. He faces Philly next, watch out Jonny V. I'm further surprised that these back to back CG Shutouts brings him up to 3 career complete games (and shutouts) in his career, with the only other one being last season.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jun 21, 2015 20:05:15 GMT -5
Pitch f/x is an amazing revolutionary technology no doubts about that but from time to time they have one of those WTF moments where just LOL. This is from a game still going on:
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 21, 2015 20:08:25 GMT -5
Don't teams have some kind of insurance for injured players? Even if they didn't, Arroyo is due what, $7-8 million? Balance of $9.5M this season plus a $4.5M buyout (assuming they don't pick up the $13M option). So about $10.1M per MLBTR.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jun 22, 2015 8:23:36 GMT -5
But I have to disagree about the your suggested move. I'd be upset if the Sox included Owens, Johnson, Kopech, or Guerra in a trade just to offload salary. That's way too much prospect, IMO. How much salary relief are they worth? It sounds like you are having more of a visceral reaction than a logical one. Well, the Sox proved that they'd spend $63 million for a single top-end prospect, so I'd say that Kopech, for example, would be worth a lot more than $9 million of salary relief to them. Besides, I'd be upset because they set the MLB roster budget this year as part of multi-year investment strategy. It would be very short-sighted to cannibalize the future because the investment isn't paying off over the first 3 months of its lifespan. That's the sort of reactionary moves bad teams continually make.
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Post by amfox1 on Jun 22, 2015 11:19:24 GMT -5
Besides, I'd be upset because they set the MLB roster budget this year as part of multi-year investment strategy. It would be very short-sighted to cannibalize the future because the investment isn't paying off over the first 3 months of its lifespan. That's the sort of reactionary moves bad teams continually make. (Not aiming this reponse specifically at you, brian.) As opposed to the reactionary posts bad posters continually make? I read post after post on this site that the Red Sox should offload Hanley, Panda, Miley, etc. Pot. Kettle.
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Post by klostrophobic on Jun 22, 2015 11:23:36 GMT -5
Are we really holding MLB organizations to the same standard as people who have dogs as avatars on a red sox minor league internet forum?
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 22, 2015 11:26:39 GMT -5
For the record, I have never argued for the dumping of any of those players, either.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 22, 2015 14:55:37 GMT -5
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Post by joshv02 on Jun 22, 2015 16:01:22 GMT -5
For the record, I have never argued for the dumping of any of those players, either. For the record, I've never had a dog as an avatar.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 22, 2015 17:23:54 GMT -5
For the record, I have never argued for the dumping of any of those players, either. For the record, I've never had a dog as an avatar. Although you do seem like the cute puppy type
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jun 22, 2015 19:14:10 GMT -5
Besides, I'd be upset because they set the MLB roster budget this year as part of multi-year investment strategy. It would be very short-sighted to cannibalize the future because the investment isn't paying off over the first 3 months of its lifespan. That's the sort of reactionary moves bad teams continually make. (Not aiming this reponse specifically at you, brian.) As opposed to the reactionary posts bad posters continually make? I read post after post on this site that the Red Sox should offload Hanley, Panda, Miley, etc. Pot. Kettle. Preaching to the choir, my friend, preachin' to the choir ...
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Post by rangoon82 on Jun 22, 2015 23:11:39 GMT -5
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Post by klostrophobic on Jun 22, 2015 23:37:16 GMT -5
Ball three.
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Post by mattpicard on Jun 23, 2015 8:23:07 GMT -5
Albert Pujols now has a .917 OPS and is leading the AL with 23 HR. While the .275 average and .336 OBP aren't characteristic of what he used to be, I'm pretty pumped to see him having a major resurgence. Always been a fan of the guy, and it's not his fault the Angels gave him that ridiculous contract.
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