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Post by telson13 on Jun 8, 2015 22:42:00 GMT -5
Hanley Ramirez is the DH. Why would you trade Buchholz for Fielder? You could get a lot more than that for Buchholz. Fielder will play 1b. He's not just a DH. If you care to venture over to his career. Until last year, he played 150+ games at 1b 8 straight years. I'd say that's pretty durable. Hanley is stuck in LF next year. Because, Papi will come back for another year. www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fieldpr01.shtml I would sell high on Buchhholz at this deadline. If a real GM were signing free agents, he could find one as good as Buchholz in free agency for the same price. I don't see that as remotely accurate. Buchholz is due something like $8M for the rest of this year, is averaging a K/IP with an xFIP in line with a 1a/2 starter, in a hitter's ballpark. He has two team option years in the $15M range, which is well below market for an incredibly team-friendly deal on a #3 with #1a upside. Buchholz's contract is actually probably a big bonus attraction point to a team dealing for him...it gives the trading team easy outs on a low-cost deal for a pitcher with elite stuff, if not results. If he ever dumps the cutter, he'll be awesome. He's got real legitimate value, probably more than a nearly-obligate DH with just positionally-adequate stats having a good year and due over twice the guaranteed money.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 8, 2015 23:05:27 GMT -5
OK, so career-wise, "positionally-adequate" is an exaggeration, but Fielder is a guy coming off of two years (one with injury) which were only adequate. He's dramatically overweight, is entering his post-prime years, is well past historical prime age (27) as a power hitter, and doesn't have much of a clubhouse rep...not to mention is a below-avg first baseman... Ehh, I like the idea of acquiring him, with the caveat that he's more valuable to his current team because his performance is excellent...you never want to buy high, and his value is unusually high right now.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 9, 2015 6:53:03 GMT -5
If the Red Sox were considering trading Buchholz which I wouldn't do, I'd be targeting someone like Taijuan Walker, not Prince Fielder.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 28, 2015 7:59:02 GMT -5
We really need a LH bat as Papi's career is winding down. Fielder was a true ironman until injured last year.He's mostly DH'd this year. 10g at 1b. He's had a revival at the plate. He's due 18m per year over the next 5 years. Detroit is picking up 6m per year. They've got Gallo needing ab's once Beltre comes back. Beltre is signed for one more year. They now have Hamilton back. Who looks more like a DH. Moreland is ok at 1b.Would they deal Fielder for pitching? Prob not until the winter. Buchholz and Owens?? I don't get it. You have been so critical of Ben in putting this roster together and how bad Hanley and Pablo have been. Now you want to go out trade Buch AND Owens for Fielder. I can't take any of you criticisms seriously anymore. In addition to not wanting anything to do with Fielder, if we are trade Buch, as Jimed mentions, your return must be MUCH better.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 28, 2015 11:26:54 GMT -5
I wouldn't trade JBJ for Fielder, let alone Buchholz. How many DHs and injury risks can we have?
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 30, 2015 7:50:15 GMT -5
I wouldn't trade JBJ for Fielder, let alone Buchholz. How many DHs and injury risks can we have? Fielder an injury risk and Buchholz not? Is this some sort of parallel universe? I know you sabremetrics guys don't appreciate guys who come to play everyday. Take a look at Fielder's games played during his entire career. Last year was the exception, not the norm. Smokey Joe Buchholz annually misses starts.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 30, 2015 8:17:26 GMT -5
Take a look at Fielder's age, contract and weight. I mean what could possibly go wrong with a 300 pound 35-36 year old?
Or is this just a trick so you can rip Cherington for making the trade after it doesn't work out?
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 30, 2015 9:30:26 GMT -5
I wouldn't trade JBJ for Fielder, let alone Buchholz. How many DHs and injury risks can we have? Fielder an injury risk and Buchholz not? Is this some sort of parallel universe? I know you sabremetrics guys don't appreciate guys who come to play everyday. Take a look at Fielder's games played during his entire career. Last year was the exception, not the norm. Smokey Joe Buchholz annually misses starts. Is Buchholz making insane money across an age curve that would be bad even if Fielder wasn't 300 pounds? He's way too risky considering that we already have Hanley as a future DH making big money.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 30, 2015 9:51:18 GMT -5
Look at Prince's father Cecil. He was out of baseball at age 34 after a few barely replacement level seasons. He wasn't nearly as fat.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 8, 2015 14:56:34 GMT -5
Rangers are gauging interest in Fielder, seems to be the kind of guy DDo would be interested in if he could move Hanley. I wouldn't mind seeing him and Ortiz back to back in the lineup. That would be pure comedy on the base paths.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 8, 2015 15:02:50 GMT -5
I want nothing to do with Fielder.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 8, 2015 15:19:38 GMT -5
lol DD dumped Fielder once before.
Looking at def rating on fangraphs, Fielder's defense at 1st last year was pretty equal to Hanley's in left field haha.
There is ZERO chance the Sox are considering this. Unless FSG is getting into Sumo wrestling with Panda and Fielder
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Post by jmei on Dec 8, 2015 15:29:48 GMT -5
Looking at def rating on fangraphs, Fielder's defense at 1st last year was pretty equal to Hanley's in left field haha. Periodic reminder: the "Def" rating on Fangraphs includes the positional adjustment, which means you aren't comparing Hanley's defense in LF to Fielder's defense at 1B. If you want to do that, look at UZR or DRS.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 8, 2015 15:44:34 GMT -5
lol DD dumped Fielder once before. Looking at def rating on fangraphs, Fielder's defense at 1st last year was pretty equal to Hanley's in left field haha. There is ZERO chance the Sox are considering this. Unless FSG is getting into Sumo wrestling with Panda and Fielder Hanley for Fielder straight up with Detroit's $ added in. Both sides laugh.
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Post by jmei on Dec 8, 2015 16:14:43 GMT -5
lol DD dumped Fielder once before. Looking at def rating on fangraphs, Fielder's defense at 1st last year was pretty equal to Hanley's in left field haha. There is ZERO chance the Sox are considering this. Unless FSG is getting into Sumo wrestling with Panda and Fielder Hanley for Fielder straight up with Detroit's $ added in. Both sides laugh. You're saying this facetiously, but I could see there being a fit. - Texas has an open DH spot, where Hanley would ideally fit. Meanwhile, while Fielder is a below-average defender, there's a good argument to be made that he's a better defensive 1B than Hanley. Moreover, if you have Hanley at 1B, there's a meaningful chance that he's catastrophically (unplayably) bad there defensively, and the Red Sox might want to hedge against that risk since they have Ortiz penned in at DH in ink (they're not going to make him play 1B on a semi-regular basis in his final season).
- Texas could also use a right-handed hitter (Beltre is RHH, but their other big bats-- Choo, Moreland, Hamilton-- all hit from the left side) while Boston could use a left-handed hitter (Ortiz and Bradley are the only lefties).
- The money owned on both sides is (roughly) comparable. Hanley is owed 3/$66m, with a $22m vesting option for 2019 that triggers if he gets 1,050+ PAs in 2017-18. Fielder is owned 5/$90m by the Rangers-- more total money, but more spread out. I probably prefer the Hanley contract (Fielder is only five months younger than Hanley and the fourth and fifth year of his deal will be ugly), but the Rangers can send some money or a prospect to balance it out.
- They're comparable offensive players-- Steamer projects a 124 wRC+ for Fielder and a 120 wRC+ for Hanley.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 8, 2015 16:19:19 GMT -5
Hanley for Fielder straight up with Detroit's $ added in. Both sides laugh. You're saying this facetiously, but I could see there being a fit. - Texas has an open DH spot, where Hanley would ideally fit. Meanwhile, while Fielder is a below-average defender, there's a good argument to be made that he's a better defensive 1B than Hanley. Moreover, if you have Hanley at 1B, there's a meaningful chance that he's catastrophically (unplayably) bad there defensively, and the Red Sox might want to hedge against that risk since they have Ortiz penned in at DH in ink (they're not going to make him play 1B on a semi-regular basis in his final season).
- Texas could also use a right-handed hitter (Beltre is RHH, but their other big bats-- Choo, Moreland, Hamilton-- all hit from the left side) while Boston could use a left-handed hitter (Ortiz and Bradley are the only lefties).
- The money owned on both sides is (roughly) comparable. Hanley is owed 3/$66m, with a $22m vesting option for 2019 that triggers if he gets 1,050+ PAs in 2017-18. Fielder is owned 5/$90m by the Rangers-- more total money, but more spread out. I probably prefer the Hanley contract (Fielder is only five months younger than Hanley and the fourth and fifth year of his deal will be ugly), but the Rangers can send some money or a prospect to balance it out.
- They're comparable offensive players-- Steamer projects a 124 wRC+ for Fielder and a 120 wRC+ for Hanley.
Thanks for spelling it out for me. I was actually being semi-serious, but the laugh part was thrown in because it's so unlikely for so many reasons. I think I read that Detroit still owes $20 million, so that would probably even out the trade just fine. It's a trade that probably makes everyone angry which is hard to do.
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Post by jmei on Dec 8, 2015 16:23:43 GMT -5
The above already takes into account Detroit's money. Detroit is contributing $30m of Fielder's 2016-2020 contract, which means Texas is paying 5/$90m of Fielder's remaining 5/$120m.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 9, 2015 11:34:19 GMT -5
I'd take 3 years of Hanley over 5 of Fielder. I don't think Fielder will be rosterable by the 5th year.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 18, 2015 17:06:49 GMT -5
That'd be nearly 520lbs at the corners. Slow rollers down the line would roll downhill fair
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Dec 18, 2015 17:34:39 GMT -5
I don't understand all the fat/overweight bashing around here. Between Sandoval, Hanley, and Fielder, you would think there was some reason to believe that overweight players are somehow lazier or worse than players who are not overweight. Its just uncalled for. Not calling you out specifically, but this has been a trend ever since Sandoval and Hanley were scapegoats for the tough 2015 season. Criticize them as players, sure. But I wish we could try to be a little more mature and not bring up players' weights as some sort of negative in and of itself, even in jest.
I mean if you want to bring it up as an argument as to why a player might have a steeper aging curve, or something of that sort, I understand. Its more the jesting/bashing directly related to weight that seems counterproductive.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 18, 2015 20:46:08 GMT -5
His weight is a massive negative in itself. He got his big paycheck, got fatter than ever and looked awful on the field. He had conditioning issues all season. They basically sent him home at the end.
The last thing this team needs is another big contract to a big body. The dropoff/injury potential is too great. Give me another player whose effort I can't so easily question.
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Post by ray88h66 on Dec 18, 2015 20:47:33 GMT -5
I'd take 3 years of Hanley over 5 of Fielder. I don't think Fielder will be rosterable by the 5th year. I don't bet but I think Fielder will far out perform Hanley going forward. And he'll play more games in the next 3years than Hanley does in 5.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 18, 2015 21:29:58 GMT -5
I'd take 3 years of Hanley over 5 of Fielder. I don't think Fielder will be rosterable by the 5th year. I don't bet but I think Fielder will far out perform Hanley going forward. And he'll play more games in the next 3years than Hanley does in 5. A 120 wRC+ DH is what Fielder is. As a DH that's Hanley's floor as a DH IMO. Both are risks to miss games.
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