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Post by beasleyrockah on Nov 22, 2012 20:18:14 GMT -5
I get it, he's a free agent and no one wants to spend prospects to invest in the short term. Before Gomes signed I didn't give it any thought...it's just that he'd be the PERFECT platoon partner with Gomes, they'd provide elite production out of one corner.
It's the most likely way to add premium production to a corner without packaging multiple top prospects (Upton) or adding a long term big contract (Hamilton). I think they could have a very good offense by adding Napoli and Swisher while platooning Gomes with an internal option...but to "contend" they really should add another plus bat to the mix, and the combo of Choo/Gomes fits the bill without a premium cost. I don't know what it would take to land Choo, but he's only under contract for one season and he plays a corner position without elite power. Obviously the cost would be the big factor here, but he'd likely bring back a compensation pick after the season barring injury or unexpected collapse in performance.
1. Ellsbury 2. Pedroia 3. Ortiz 4. Napoli* 5. Choo/Gomes 6. Swisher* 7. Middlebrooks 8. Lavarnway/Saltalamacchia/Ross 9. Drew*/Iglesias
This lineup would kill it at Fenway. I know the half the board wants to see Ortiz batting 6th and Ted Williams and Manny batting 3rd and 4th, but this offense would be elite in today's offensive environment.
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Post by jmei on Nov 22, 2012 20:59:35 GMT -5
I don't think they'll acquire both Choo and Swisher. Honestly, if Choo is only going to be a platoon left fielder for you, I'm not sure he's worth the trade acquisition cost. He is a very good defender in RF and adds additional value on the basepaths, and I would want him playing more than in a platoon role even if he is bad versus lefties. If you already have Swisher, I'd rather save my trade chips/salary space for starting pitching.
But I agree that that lineup would (if healthy) likely be first or second in the league in runs. That one through seven is relentless, and Lavarnway and Drew are pretty great eighth and ninth hitters too.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 22, 2012 22:27:29 GMT -5
I don't think they'll acquire both Choo and Swisher. Honestly, if Choo is only going to be a platoon left fielder for you, I'm not sure he's worth the trade acquisition cost. He is a very good defender in RF and adds additional value on the basepaths, and I would want him playing more than in a platoon role even if he is bad versus lefties. If you already have Swisher, I'd rather save my trade chips/salary space for starting pitching. But I agree that that lineup would (if healthy) likely be first or second in the league in runs. That one through seven is relentless, and Lavarnway and Drew are pretty great eighth and ninth hitters too. He's a horrible defensive RF. -1.9 dWAR this year and has been in the negative for dWAR for the past five seasons.
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Post by jmei on Nov 22, 2012 22:46:33 GMT -5
Hm. For some reason I thought he was a good defender in the past. Ignore me then.
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Post by dmaineah on Nov 23, 2012 10:08:45 GMT -5
1. Ellsbury 2. Pedroia 3. Ortiz 4. Napoli* 5. Choo/Gomes 6. Swisher* 7. Middlebrooks 8. Lavarnway/Saltalamacchia/Ross 9. Drew*/Iglesias This lineup would kill it at Fenway. I want no part of Napoli or Swisher & hope the Red Sox feel the same. I think they're both ready to fall & fall hard and fast. I would take Choo on for 1yr until Brentz arrives and then let him walk and take the compensation though. I'd also like to see Chris Perez come in the deal. And I like the Stephen Drew thought. The Red Sox have to have a plan in place in case Iglesias fails.
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Post by mainesox on Nov 23, 2012 12:50:38 GMT -5
Why do you "think they're both ready to fall & fall hard and fast." Just cuz?
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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 23, 2012 13:37:51 GMT -5
He's a horrible defensive RF. -1.9 dWAR this year and has been in the negative for dWAR for the past five seasons. He was pretty bad this past year, but before that he had been consistently above average. I believe your dWAR is accounting for him being a corner OF. He has a lifetime UZR of -1.6 which is pretty average. Biggest worry is 'why' did he fall off so hard defensively last year? The depth he fell seems to show more than a SSS issue. I like the Choo/Gomes platoon - but is it worth the cost of acquiring Choo? Also, he has a 4.1 cumulative WAR over the past 2 years, so this far from guarantees him an arbitration offer if his performance doesn't pick up to pre-2011 levels. Although trading for him now would likely give the Red Sox an edge in resigning him if they want to keep him long term.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Nov 23, 2012 14:03:55 GMT -5
Brandon Workman and Keury De La Cruz for Shin-Soo.
Remember he'll likely get a QO and net the team a pick so probably it will take more.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Nov 23, 2012 20:34:43 GMT -5
I don't think they'll acquire both Choo and Swisher. Honestly, if Choo is only going to be a platoon left fielder for you, I'm not sure he's worth the trade acquisition cost. He is a very good defender in RF and adds additional value on the basepaths, and I would want him playing more than in a platoon role even if he is bad versus lefties. If you already have Swisher, I'd rather save my trade chips/salary space for starting pitching. But I agree that that lineup would (if healthy) likely be first or second in the league in runs. That one through seven is relentless, and Lavarnway and Drew are pretty great eighth and ninth hitters too. Choo really shouldn't get regular at bats vs. lefties. His baserunning and defense aren't enough to make up for his lack of hitting, especially in a corner, no contending team with an elite offense should settle for that production. For him to produce like that I'd need Tampa Bay Crawford defense and baserunning to make it worth while, and even then he'd be batting 8th against lefties. His production against righties is so good that he's worth acquiring (especially with Gomes on the roster), the bigger half of this platoon could still be a 4 win type of player. He'd be another capable defender in the currently questionable OF mix. I think depth is very important in the post-steroids environment, the Red Sox need lots of quality depth more than any singular elite talent. I don't want guys like Gomes/Nava/Kalish being forced into every day duty and overexposed once the inevitable injuries to the OF happen yet again. The last few years of injuries should make the Red Sox stress the importance of building a good bench...the Yankees do it almost perfect and it pays off My hypothetical idea of the the trade acquisition cost is the attractive part, but I'm probably way off. I just don't see Choo commanding top 100 talent with only one year left and his skill set. His value is far less than the Alex Gordon's of the world, nevermind Upton. They'll need real talent obviously, but the QO and potential draft compensation might be less valuable in their mind than the Red Sox, so that could be a positive factor to consider. I was thinking some mix (2-3) of Kalish, Wilson, Workman, Ranaudo, Vinicio, KDLC, Shaw (complete hypothetical, just range of value). Some team might be willing to offer elite near ready prospects for Choo and maybe this quantity package is way low. I just can't see a team willing to give elite prospects for Choo but no team willing to do the same for Ellsbury in CF. Cleveland might look to package him with Masterson, Perez or Cabrera, but then the dynamics change and a new set of players could be made available.
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Post by bluechip on Nov 24, 2012 3:42:28 GMT -5
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Post by welovewally on Nov 24, 2012 5:24:14 GMT -5
I hope the Sox want to keep all their young SP and see how they develop further
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 24, 2012 7:26:36 GMT -5
Second that emotion.
Surrendering two of our top prospects, one of whom is almost ML ready, would be foolish for a one-year Boras rental; even if it brings back a sandwich pick which could turn out to be tuna fish.
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Post by jdb on Nov 24, 2012 8:59:33 GMT -5
It would take a better player than Choo for me to put in one of our top four SP prospects. I doubt I would give up Barnes, Webster, Rubby or Owens for a guy on a one year deal. I would offer a package starting with either Workman or Britton and go from there. I would be fine with the Workman and De La Cruz deal mentioned earlier. If its much more expensive than that I would rather give up our second rounder for Swisher or go with Victorino.
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Post by bluechip on Nov 24, 2012 10:12:03 GMT -5
I agree with the sentiment that Webster and Workman is too much to give for Choo. Nevertheless, I am not sure a lesser package gets the deal done, so I am not exactly eager for the Red Sox to trade for Choo.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Nov 24, 2012 14:47:04 GMT -5
I wouldn't deal Webster+ for one season of Choo. If the Indians can land a premium pitching prospect for Choo good for them, I just don't see it happening, but I also have no idea what the market is and it just takes one team. I can't think of any recent comparable trade. If teams are in the mood to give out premium pitching prospects for one year rentals of guys like Choo, are we underselling Ellsbury's market? If they hit the market this year, I think we all agree Ellsbury would be the more highly paid player, bad 2012 included.
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Post by jdb on Dec 3, 2012 17:34:28 GMT -5
The way this offseason has gone Choo would be a great fit. Kills RHP, could leadoff and despite last years UZR I think he is still an above avg glove in RF. like I said I wouldn't give up a top SP prospect but I could live with Workman or Britton +. Also if the FO isn't sold on Brentz we should look into dealing him and this might fit.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Dec 3, 2012 22:28:35 GMT -5
I think the Red Sox are going to end up with Shoo. Unless the are asking for the top guys. He is on his last year and Brentz is definitely better than an expeculative Draft pick.
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Post by justen on Dec 4, 2012 9:02:50 GMT -5
Brentz, Workman, and Fields.
Get it done.
Choo drove in 65+ RBI's last year hitting at the top of the order, as well as stealing 21 bases. He always gets on base at a huge clip and if the Red Sox are really trying to get back to their old ways when signing and developing high on base guys, Choo could be a large part of the movement.
He's really bad against LHP but would be a perfect platoon w. Gomes (providing he can play a decent RF instead of being locked into left, might need another RHH off the bench here).
He's at least league average defensively.
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Post by jdb on Dec 4, 2012 9:27:01 GMT -5
Ive seen so many articles this week that I cant remember which one I saw it in but some seem to think his year vs LHP was below his career norms bc of a hand injury. Looking at his stats he had a .370 OBP vs LH SP but it looks like he was 1 for 28 vs LH RP (specialist I assume) that brought it down to .318. Granted his power numbers took a big hit vs LHP but if he can still get on base vs them thats a start.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,828
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Post by nomar on Dec 5, 2012 16:17:48 GMT -5
Choo would be a mistake. A one year rental OF is not what we should be giving up prospects for.
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