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Post by moonstone2 on Dec 30, 2014 15:57:47 GMT -5
Dumb trade idea of the day.
No one really thinks that the Angels are going to start Josh Rutledge at 2B do they?
Brock Holt and Britton to LAA for Cam Bedrosian. Gives them a young hard throwing right handed reliever that could close for them one day. Sign Gordon Beckham to be your utility infielder.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Dec 30, 2014 16:55:08 GMT -5
I do like the idea of trading Brock Holt for a reliever, preferrably a young one. I also like that Bedrosian would give us a mulligan on the Kolbrin Vitek pick in the 2010 draft. If Bedrosian was picked one spot earlier, he'd be exactly in between when we took Vitek (20th) and Brentz (36th). As a trivia note, the person in that midpoint spot is Dodgers pitching prospect Zach Lee. I am aware that none of that actually matters.
It's also worthy of note that the Yankees may need a second baseman. They traded away Prado to the Marlins and now seem to have Brendan Ryan and Jose Pirela at 2B. And Gregorius isn't exactly a thumper either at SS so they could use some middle infield offense. With Asdrubal Cabrera signing with the Rays, and questions regarding the couple of Cuban middle infielders, there are not many FA options left. I am really curious as to what happens with Zobrist. I'd much rather see him go to the Angels but I do enjoy the idea of the Yankees giving up prospects.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 31, 2014 8:54:40 GMT -5
Technically with Betts and Hanley plus all the outfielder/1b types and Weeks/Cecchini in AAA this team has no need for a utility infielder. I'd rather Craig and his bat on the bench than Holt.
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Brock Holt
Dec 31, 2014 21:58:34 GMT -5
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Post by larrycook on Dec 31, 2014 21:58:34 GMT -5
. I'd rather Craig and his bat on the bench than Holt. Are you basing this preference on what Craig and holt did last year or in what you think each will do next season?
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Post by artfuldodger on Jan 1, 2015 7:31:01 GMT -5
I like the idea of the trade to the Angels, but would keep Craig on roster and add another utility infielder at AAA. Bedrosian would be a quality choice. Joe Smith would be a good possibility as well if the Angels would prefer to keep what few quality young players that they have.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 1, 2015 10:11:15 GMT -5
. I'd rather Craig and his bat on the bench than Holt. Are you basing this preference on what Craig and holt did last year or in what you think each will do next season? Do you need to ask this question?
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 1, 2015 11:22:54 GMT -5
Dumb trade idea of the day. No one really thinks that the Angels are going to start Josh Rutledge at 2B do they? Brock Holt and Britton to LAA for Cam Bedrosian. Gives them a young hard throwing right handed reliever that could close for them one day. Sign Gordon Beckham to be your utility infielder. The Angels do strange things sometimes. I could see them starting Rutledge, silly as that seems. But I do agree with the idea - I think Holt can be a second tier starting 2B - the type who hits like .280/.320/.360 with solid defense. Given the Red Sox roster construction I'd rather they carry a defensive whiz SS type, and Holt should be more valuable to a team that needs a starter at second. Angels, White Sox, maybe the Nationals.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 1, 2015 11:52:19 GMT -5
Is a second baseman with that line really a second division starter?
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 1, 2015 12:02:13 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 1, 2015 12:16:37 GMT -5
I more meant it's quite good and wouldn't call it second division.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 1, 2015 12:41:35 GMT -5
Ah, that is fair then.
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Post by bosox705 on Jan 1, 2015 17:01:41 GMT -5
There is shortage of starting caliber 2b currently. As much as I like Holt I think his value is by far the highest it will be. Both the A ' a and Angels are in need of a staring caliber second baseman that will not drive payroll up. Holt is the type of the player both franchises like. So a deal with either team for either Fernando Abad from the A 's or Hector Santiago from the Angels for Drake Britton and Brock Holt. Both quality lefty relievers under 30.
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Post by mgoetze on Jan 2, 2015 19:39:48 GMT -5
There is shortage of starting caliber 2b currently. As much as I like Holt I think his value is by far the highest it will be. Certainly his value is much higher than that of a replacement-level relief pitcher. OP's proposal seems like an extreme case of buying high.
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Post by moonstone2 on Jan 8, 2015 15:18:30 GMT -5
There is shortage of starting caliber 2b currently. As much as I like Holt I think his value is by far the highest it will be. Certainly his value is much higher than that of a replacement-level relief pitcher. OP's proposal seems like an extreme case of buying high. Wouldn't say that Bedrosian and others are replacement level.
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Post by greenmonstah on Jan 10, 2015 20:37:47 GMT -5
I like Bedrosian more than others but I like Holt as our utility infielder that can play the OF, now if we can only deal Craig...
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Post by jmei on Jul 19, 2015 10:50:42 GMT -5
If I'm the Red Sox, I'm quietly shopping Brock Holt right now. Contenders can easily talk themselves into overpaying for him as a better Zobrist who is good enough to be an above-average starter at 2B (a weak position on the trade market) but who can also provide the sort of hedge against injury and underperformance at a half-dozen other positions that you'd otherwise need two or three acquisitions to fill. He's also young, cheap, and under team control for a while, all factors that might encourage a team to give up borderline elite prospects for him.
Holt's versatility is very useful, but (a) I'm skeptical that he's really this good (the doubling of his walk rate looks flukey (his underlying plate discipline stats are basically identical to previous years), and while he's probably a true-talent high-BABIP hitter, it's going to come down from .373) and (b) once he regresses, I'm not sure he's good enough to be a starter for the Red Sox at any single position, which means he adds more value as an injury/underperformance hedge than anything else.
Along those lines, while his ability to cover seven positions potentially saves them a bench spot (not sure how to value that, though), the downgrade from what he projects to give you going forward to, say, what Marrero and Bradley project to give you is not huge. Maybe a win at most, even assuming enough injury attrition that he gets a full season's worth of PAs. If they can trade him for a good enough return-- say, a top 50 in baseball-type prospect-- I'm comfortable doing so.
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Post by jdb on Jul 19, 2015 11:26:48 GMT -5
Agree. If someone wants to pay like he's a cost controlled starting 2B we do it. Otherwise he's probably more valuable to us in the utility role. Outside of KC who needs a 2B? Besides the Yanks.
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Post by bigpapismangosalsa on Jul 19, 2015 12:10:26 GMT -5
Totally on board with this strategy. KC would be a fit (and I'd target Finnegan or Manaea from them). I think he'd also be a good fit out for the LA Angels, but the only name there who really interests me is Newcomb - and I think he's too good of a prospect for Brock Holt, so we'd have to add something there. If you could get those type of players, that's the way I move Holt, otherwise, you hold on to him.
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Post by arzjake on Jul 19, 2015 12:16:59 GMT -5
I would start feeling out the Padres. Holt Bradley an Owens Barnes type for Kimbrell while trying to pry away Ross? Ross who should command a hefty raise in the winter.
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Jul 19, 2015 14:03:36 GMT -5
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Post by telson13 on Jul 19, 2015 14:03:36 GMT -5
If I'm the Red Sox, I'm quietly shopping Brock Holt right now. Contenders can easily talk themselves into overpaying for him as a better Zobrist who is good enough to be an above-average starter at 2B (a weak position on the trade market) but who can also provide the sort of hedge against injury and underperformance at a half-dozen other positions that you'd otherwise need two or three acquisitions to fill. He's also young, cheap, and under team control for a while, all factors that might encourage a team to give up borderline elite prospects for him. Holt's versatility is very useful, but (a) I'm skeptical that he's really this good (the doubling of his walk rate looks flukey (his underlying plate discipline stats are basically identical to previous years), and while he's probably a true-talent high-BABIP hitter, it's going to come down from .373) and (b) once he regresses, I'm not sure he's good enough to be a starter for the Red Sox at any single position, which means he adds more value as an injury/underperformance hedge than anything else. Along those lines, while his ability to cover seven positions potentially saves them a bench spot (not sure how to value that, though), the downgrade from what he projects to give you going forward to, say, what Marrero and Bradley project to give you is not huge. Maybe a win at most, even assuming enough injury attrition that he gets a full season's worth of PAs. If they can trade him for a good enough return-- say, a top 50 in baseball-type prospect-- I'm comfortable doing so. I'm coming around on Holt as a potential starter, but with Pedey at 2b, and their minor-league talent, it's never going to be on the Sox. He *may* be capable of being a 1st-division starter at 2b, but I agree that-while it still looks that way-now is the best time to get top value for him. If the Sox could package him with a prospect for Chapman, or get a top-50 prospect back from a contender, I think it's a move they ought to make. That said, I think they should shoot for the moon in terms of asking, because the alternative-keeping him-is entirely a solid option and has its own potential litany of benefits.
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Post by ianrs on Jul 19, 2015 14:20:59 GMT -5
Agree. If someone wants to pay like he's a cost controlled starting 2B we do it. Otherwise he's probably more valuable to us in the utility role. Outside of KC who needs a 2B? Besides the Yanks. Ned Yost *does* love Holt, KC is competing now, and can probably afford to ship out a prospect or two to improve this year's MLB club. Would love to match up with them for a trade.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jul 19, 2015 14:38:03 GMT -5
Trading Holt at his most likely highest value makes sense. I would miss watching him play though. But trading Clay a few weeks ago made even more sense. Ben likes depth. Unless Holt is part of a big multi player deal, I think he stays.
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Brock Holt
Jul 19, 2015 15:05:40 GMT -5
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 19, 2015 15:05:40 GMT -5
Could we try to define what selling Holt at "high value" is? For example, if it is the equivalent of what we got from the Giants for Peavy (which was solid value), I'm really not interested.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 19, 2015 15:10:50 GMT -5
I would start feeling out the Padres. Holt Bradley an Owens Barnes type for Kimbrell while trying to pry away Ross? Ross who should command a hefty raise in the winter. Complicated trades are less likely to get done, and if Holt is traded at the deadline it will likely be to a contender. SD may conduct a fire sale but BOS is less likely to include Holt in such a trade than trade him. KC, in a deal for Brandon Finnegan and a C prospect, sounds about right. Finnegan can immediately slot into the bullpen and has some rotation upside. Holt will be a min player through 2016 and arb eligible in 2017-19, so there is no rush in trading him, except that his value may never be higher. Finnegan will be a min player through 2017 (one year more than Holt) and is five years younger than Holt.
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Brock Holt
Jul 19, 2015 15:15:43 GMT -5
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Post by larrycook on Jul 19, 2015 15:15:43 GMT -5
I would start feeling out the Padres. Holt Bradley an Owens Barnes type for Kimbrell while trying to pry away Ross? Ross who should command a hefty raise in the winter. Complicated trades are less likely to get done, and if Holt is traded at the deadline it will likely be to a contender. SD may conduct a fire sale but BOS is less likely to include Holt in such a trade than trade him. KC, in a deal for Brandon Finnegan and a C prospect, sounds about right. Finnegan can immediately slot into the bullpen and has some rotation upside. Holt will be a min player through 2016 and arb eligible in 2017-19, so there is no rush in trading him, except that his value may never be higher. Finnegan will be a min player through 2017 (one year more than Holt) and is five years younger than Holt. Maybe I have my homer glasses on, but I was really hoping we could get a bit more for holt.
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