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Best Draft in Recent Years
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Post by pedey on Sept 13, 2015 16:22:25 GMT -5
If you look at the current Red Sox roster, you will find 7 players on the team that were drafted in 2011. Those players are Barnes, Owens, Swihart, Bradley, Noe Ramirez, Betts, and Shaw. I'd say that the 2011 draft has to be one of the better drafts in team history. All of those players have not only made it to the big leagues, but could very well be impact players. I'd say that Owens, Swihart, and Betts (and maybe Bradley) are future all-stars.
Comparing it drafts since the mid 90's, no other draft has produced more than 3 MLB starters. It's pretty exciting to have all these young players on the team. Thanks Theo for one last good draft.
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Post by curll on Sept 13, 2015 18:00:33 GMT -5
2005 and it isn't very close. Ellsbury, Hansen, Buchholz, Lowrie, and Bowden all made it to the majors. Some with exceptional results.
Then they drafted Pedro Alvarez, Charlie Blackmon, and Jason Castro - none of which signed, but hey.
2005 is probably the best baseball draft in history overall, all things considered.
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 13, 2015 18:10:35 GMT -5
2005 and it isn't very close. Ellsbury, Hansen, Buchholz, Lowrie, and Bowden all made it to the majors. Some with exceptional results. Then they drafted Pedro Alvarez, Charlie Blackmon, and Jason Castro - none of which signed, but hey. 2005 is probably the best baseball draft in history overall, all things considered. In team history, yeah it's up there. In terms of depth, 1976 is probably the best: Bruce Hurst, Glenn Hoffman, John Tudor, and Wade Boggs (as well as SoxProspects.com Forum Favorite Reid Nichols). And in terms of overall value, the 1983 edition that got Roger Clemens and Ellis Burks draft is pretty cool. |
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alnipper
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Post by alnipper on Sept 13, 2015 20:10:51 GMT -5
I like this years draft so far. It is nowhere near 1976 or 2005, however it looks solid.
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Post by jhenrywaugh, prop. on Sept 13, 2015 20:32:33 GMT -5
2005 and it isn't very close. Ellsbury, Hansen, Buchholz, Lowrie, and Bowden all made it to the majors. Some with exceptional results. Then they drafted Pedro Alvarez, Charlie Blackmon, and Jason Castro - none of which signed, but hey. 2005 is probably the best baseball draft in history overall, all things considered. It's obviously going to take more time, but I agree with pedey that 2011 has a solid shot at surpassing 2005. Ellsbury is the clear star of that class, but I don't think anyone will be surprised if Betts equals or even betters his production. Buch has had his moments, but has been both inconsistent and injured. I'm probably higher on Owens than most, but if he stays here and stays healthy, he's a starter who, based on production, would seem to have a shot at equaling Buch. I'm not sure if Lowrie is under or overrated at this point. He's mostly been a starter at a premium position. But Swihart is at a premium position as well, is clearly ahead of where Lowrie was, and projects to be much better. Hansen and Bowden didn't amount to much, but 2011 still has Bradley, who could, like Betts, equal or better Ellsbury when it's all said and done. Add on Barnes, Ramirez, and Shaw, not to mention the burgeoning Jerez, and it does look to have a good chance to be better, for both impact and depth. |
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Post by telson13 on Sept 13, 2015 20:57:01 GMT -5
2005 and it isn't very close. Ellsbury, Hansen, Buchholz, Lowrie, and Bowden all made it to the majors. Some with exceptional results. Then they drafted Pedro Alvarez, Charlie Blackmon, and Jason Castro - none of which signed, but hey. 2005 is probably the best baseball draft in history overall, all things considered. I think in five years, 2011 will easily eclipse 2005. Right now 2007 has more MLB players but less track record. FWIW, Hansen never did anything much, nor did Bowden. Lowrie's been solid, Buchholz good, and Ellsbury will at least make the "Hall of the Very Good." Betts looks capable of approaching (and maybe surpassing Ellsbury), and Swihart may well approach/surpass Buchholz's success. Bradley will, I expect, top Lowrie. And Shaw's already probably past Hansen. The rest of 2011 then is cake. |
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Post by klostrophobic on Sept 13, 2015 21:18:29 GMT -5
If you want to include international signings, 2011 has Manny Margot. 2014 has Moncada, Castillo (cheeseball inclusion), Espinoza, and then the draft guys. Could be fantastic, could be just whatever Castillo is. I'll take 2011 over anything the last twenty years, but I'm a gambling man.
2004 has produced about 45 bWAR and 2005 about 50 bWAR (too tired, lazy and drunk to get exact numbers). And the 2004 draft only takes up one spot on the roster so it's probably the more valuable draft overall, or at least you could make that case.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2015 21:54:40 GMT -5
Theo's 2005 and 2011 drafts are obviously the cream of the crop as far as the Red Sox go. But, saying either is or will be the best in baseball history is silly. The Dodgers' 1968 draft is generally regarded as the best in history. Los Angeles signed six future All-Stars in 1968 who would combine for 23 All-Star Game appearances - both MLB Draft records. The Dodgers' draft included Steve Garvey, Ron Cey, Davey Lopes, Bill Buckner, Tom Paciorek, Doyle Alexander, Geoff Zahn, Joe Ferguson and of course Bobby Valentine. The Dodgers' draft included 11 future big leaguers who combined for a total of 235.6 WAR, another record. The Red Sox 1983 Draft is the only other draft that comes within 50 WAR of the Dodgers' 1968 draft. Here's a nice rundown of some of the other great drafts in MLB history: m.mlb.com/news/article/127539444/dodgers-class-of-1968-tops-list-of-10-best-drafts |
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Post by klostrophobic on Sept 13, 2015 23:03:07 GMT -5
It's a little absurd to even try to compare a modern draft to one from 1968——the fourth draft in MLB history. They used to have four drafts back then: June, June secondary, January, January secondary. Anything post-1986 is fair game in terms of relation to the 'best draft in recent years' I feel.
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Post by curll on Sept 13, 2015 23:14:16 GMT -5
Just to clarify, I meant the entire 2005 draft. Tulo, Cutch, Braun, Upton, et al.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Sept 21, 2015 7:14:55 GMT -5
2005 and it isn't very close. Ellsbury, Hansen, Buchholz, Lowrie, and Bowden all made it to the majors. Some with exceptional results. Then they drafted Pedro Alvarez, Charlie Blackmon, and Jason Castro - none of which signed, but hey. 2005 is probably the best baseball draft in history overall, all things considered. In team history, yeah it's up there. In terms of depth, 1976 is probably the best: Bruce Hurst, Glenn Hoffman, John Tudor, and Wade Boggs (as well as SoxProspects.com Forum Favorite Reid Nichols). And in terms of overall value, the 1983 edition that got Roger Clemens and Ellis Burks draft is pretty cool. Hurst, Hoffman and Nichols spent time at Winter Haven spread out over the '76-78 seasons. Nichols thought was from nearby Lake Alfred, only 4-5 miles from W/H, but his BR page says he graduated from Ocala HS which is around 45-50 miles away. Still qualified as a local product. Hoffman remember had these special tags on his car: "HOFF-1" guess he wasn't going around even then disguising who he was and why? Wonder if he continued doing that after making the majors? Hurst was one of the nicest guys ever met and got to know during all my years going to HaSox games. A real loner who was down right homesick at the time. Could, and did have several interesting chats with Bruce during the course of that '76 season and over the course of several spring training's from then onwards as long as he remained with Boston. |
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Post by michael on Sept 21, 2015 10:13:07 GMT -5
LJS, wasn't that homesickness the major reason he
signed with San Diego? To be nearer to St George.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Sept 21, 2015 10:50:41 GMT -5
If you look at the current Red Sox roster, you will find 7 players on the team that were drafted in 2011. Those players are Barnes, Owens, Swihart, Bradley, Noe Ramirez, Betts, and Shaw. I'd say that the 2011 draft has to be one of the better drafts in team history. All of those players have not only made it to the big leagues, but could very well be impact players. I'd say that Owens, Swihart, and Betts (and maybe Bradley) are future all-stars. .... Without wanting to restart repetitive discussions on projecting Owens, I'd say it would quite an outcome for Owens to wind up as an all-star. |
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Post by telson13 on Sept 21, 2015 11:28:59 GMT -5
If you look at the current Red Sox roster, you will find 7 players on the team that were drafted in 2011. Those players are Barnes, Owens, Swihart, Bradley, Noe Ramirez, Betts, and Shaw. I'd say that the 2011 draft has to be one of the better drafts in team history. All of those players have not only made it to the big leagues, but could very well be impact players. I'd say that Owens, Swihart, and Betts (and maybe Bradley) are future all-stars. .... Without wanting to restart repetitive discussions on projecting Owens, I'd say it would quite an outcome for Owens to wind up as an all-star. But not that surprising to see him do it once or twice. His K rate is excellent, and he had several outstanding starts, along with some stinkers. Pretty typical for a young pitcher. As he learns to spot that fastball, and maybe improve the slider a bit, he should be pretty solid given his excellent CH. I can see him regularly putting up 200-inning seasons with numbers slightly better than at present...a couple of hot starts, and he could easily make the AS team. A 15-10, 3.75, 8 K/9 season isn't an unreasonable expectation for him a 2-4 years down the road. I could see Betts producing 30-50 WAR or more, and arguably the same or slightly less (20-40) for Swihart. JBJ and Owens maybe 15-30 each. The rest of the draft might cobble together 10-15 between them. So that's a pretty damn good draft, even at the low end of those predictions. |
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Post by eagleeye9184 on Sept 21, 2015 12:12:59 GMT -5
I can remember following the live commentary on the 2011 draft on this site. That was the first Sox draft I ever followed like that. I can remember the excitement through the first rd. (disappointment in not nabbing Gray, but Barnes had a great arm / Swihart great prep bat / Owens a projectable lefty / Bradley a steal who dropped due to injury) and the commentary here really had me excited to follow that draft class. Regarding the rest of the draft, knowing that all of them were the longest of long-shot lottery tickets, the only pick that caught my eye was that of Golson. So the drama of the summer for me was, will they sign Golson away from his football commitment to Ole Miss or will that money be reallocated to other picks? And, as they say, the rest is history. Golson went to Ole Miss, and we got "stuck" with a short guy named Mookie who was a great bowler. And a 3B out of Kent State named Shaw. Bottom line for me is that I bonded with this draft class, and will always be overly enthusiastic about it. The 2011 BoSox draft was the perfect storm of opportunity meeting preparation (the balanced portfolio of the early picks) yielding an optimal outcome. For me, it will be the model to which I will compare all other draft classes.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 21, 2015 13:01:42 GMT -5
LJS, wasn't that homesickness the major reason he signed with San Diego? To be nearer to St George. I saw Hurst recently at a baseball banquet and I can't remember the exact reason but it was more about leaving the Sox (can't remember why and that bothers me that I can't remember) than going to San Diego, and I do recall that he regretted leaving and wished he had stayed with the Sox. Hurst was so articulate and such a nice guy. He was one of the guys I most changed my opinion of as a fan. I had had it with him in 1985. I think the last straw was when he gave up a grand slam to Lance Parrish. He was a disaster and I figured he'd never really make it as a major leaguer and I couldn't for the life of me figure out why Lou Gorman turned down 20 game winner Joaquin Andujar AND Jeff Lahti for him. By 1986 he had totally turned me around and I became a huge Bruce Hurst fan, and still am. In a way Henry Owens reminds me a little bit of Hurst. Hope the Sox hang onto him and are patient with him. I think, like Hurst, he could take a little while to develop consistency, but when he does, he should be a solid pitcher you can count on. |
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Post by telson13 on Sept 21, 2015 14:31:22 GMT -5
LJS, wasn't that homesickness the major reason he signed with San Diego? To be nearer to St George. I saw Hurst recently at a baseball banquet and I can't remember the exact reason but it was more about leaving the Sox (can't remember why and that bothers me that I can't remember) than going to San Diego, and I do recall that he regretted leaving and wished he had stayed with the Sox. Hurst was so articulate and such a nice guy. He was one of the guys I most changed my opinion of as a fan. I had had it with him in 1985. I think the last straw was when he gave up a grand slam to Lance Parrish. He was a disaster and I figured he'd never really make it as a major leaguer and I couldn't for the life of me figure out why Lou Gorman turned down 20 game winner Joaquin Andujar AND Jeff Lahti for him. By 1986 he had totally turned me around and I became a huge Bruce Hurst fan, and still am. In a way Henry Owens reminds me a little bit of Hurst. Hope the Sox hang onto him and are patient with him. I think, like Hurst, he could take a little while to develop consistency, but when he does, he should be a solid pitcher you can count on. Similar FB, but Owens has the CH vs Hurst's awesome curve. I remember watching the 86 WS, and Gooden was the guy with "THE" CB back then, but Hurst's from the left was nearly as good. He had some terrific years with the Sox. The only thing that kept him from winning 20 was a little tough luck and leaving Boston. |
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Post by p23w on Sept 21, 2015 15:56:52 GMT -5
I saw Hurst recently at a baseball banquet and I can't remember the exact reason but it was more about leaving the Sox (can't remember why and that bothers me that I can't remember) than going to San Diego, and I do recall that he regretted leaving and wished he had stayed with the Sox.
Two words. Wade Boggs.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Sept 21, 2015 18:06:27 GMT -5
LJS, wasn't that homesickness the major reason he signed with San Diego? To be nearer to St George. He was a Mormon with strong religious views and also the media attention he didn't care for much at all. Look at his background is all it takes to see why. Not anything negative about Boston, just a guy not used to any of the attention he was having heaped upon him and didn't really care for it, nor want it and wasn't initially able to handle it. There are at least 2 members here that were around on those old HaSox teams, one was quite close to the action I "think" that far back?? Maybe his time with them (non player) was a couple of years later, but this member can probably verify as to how religious and "stick to himself" Bruce was that summer of '77. |
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Post by brockholtsuperstar on Sept 23, 2015 14:18:00 GMT -5
Don't forget the Angels 2009 draft, Trout, Garrett Richards, Tyler Skaggs, and Patrick Corbin. Maybe not as good as 2011 but definitely comparable in terms of talent.
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