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Red Sox acquire Craig Kimbrel for Margot, Guerra +
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Post by deepjohn on May 16, 2016 16:45:57 GMT -5
How long will this thread be in 5-6 years at least.
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Post by mgoetze on May 16, 2016 16:53:53 GMT -5
But when WHIP is below average 1.4, as it is for Allen, it's too early to call Allen a bust, for sure. But if you're the Padres, I'd bet you're not happy about it, and you care about his below average WHIP a lot more than his zero homers and low FIP. I neither know nor care what one of the bottom 2 front offices in baseball thinks about it. I personally would put more stock in FIP than WHIP, and I would definitely be happy that he's not giving up home runs.
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Post by dnfl333 on May 16, 2016 17:44:30 GMT -5
Without Kimbrell right now I doubt Boston is 10 games over .500. It was a great move on DD part. Overpay? I don't think so. Sox had depth in the OF and at SS in the system. Far as a Prospect pitcher, the next time Boston develops an Ace from the farm will be a first. I doubt Allen is that guy..
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,321
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Post by radiohix on May 16, 2016 18:13:00 GMT -5
Without Kimbrell right now I doubt Boston is 10 games over .500. It was a great move on DD part. Overpay? I don't think so. Sox had depth in the OF and at SS in the system. Far as a Prospect pitcher, the next time Boston develops an Ace from the farm will be a first. I doubt Allen is that guy.. You're sure about that? Let me refresh your memory one more time. The record has nothing to do with Kimbrel, it's all about the MLB leading offense, man. Koji would've done the trick just fine. And for the rest of your entry, I totally disagree and it's been discussed over and over again in the previous pages so I'm not gonna discuss it again but I'll say this: I brought the Allen numbers again because I read yesterday on a Cardinals blog the idea of trading their closer Rosenthal and the auther was speculating about the package they can get and he was in shock how the Padres "fleeced" (It's the term he used) DD in that trade and i think, like many here do, that the author was right.
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Post by sarasoxer on May 16, 2016 18:35:54 GMT -5
I agree with dnfl333. The remake of our bullpen, which was a huge Achilles heel and is currently on a statistical par with the Yankees, has been a big boost. It can and will get even better this year. Wait for it. Kimbrel will likely make a very big difference over the course of the season. Sure we are hitting crazily which has helped...But it will not continue at this pace.....In any event, we all know that pitching is the most important component of winning championships. Every September and October ...when the weather is less "hitterish" (Ted Williams)....we get that reminder. Koji, good as he is, is not the answer. www.overthemonster.com/2016/5/16/11679714/red-sox-bullpen-koji-uehara?_ga=1.233095454.1626056885.1463446007Kimbrel will make more of a difference for us this year and next...at least... than those we traded. Will the trade end up being even or in our favor?...When all is said and done maybe 'pound for pound' the verdict will be that we got fleeced...but for the next several seasons at least..it will prove to be a greater benefit for our team.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 16, 2016 19:51:56 GMT -5
Cardinals fans are fake. Baseball trades aren't zero sum games. They aren't made with that in mind and after time review, people may try to determine who may have "won" the trade, although that should have no significant meaning in a trade. The scales are tilted in favor of keeping the prospects now, because of the current valuation that says cost controlled prospects have a value that has been determined by an industry, that loves having cheap players. The end valuation dollars are mythical and/or indeterminate at this point in the trade...If Craig Kimbrel ends up being on a world series winning club....the dollars will be real....at the gate....in sponsor income...in fan paraphenalia. I don't have a problem with people saying it was a bad trade....overpay....whatever.....but to say he was fleeced is nonsense to me. He made the trade.....paid the free market value for his asset....and has, what historically has been, a damn good baseball player.
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Post by dnfl333 on May 16, 2016 20:00:05 GMT -5
The record has nothing to do with Kimbrel, it's all about the MLB leading offense, man. Koji would've done the trick just fine. And for the rest of your entry, I totally disagree and it's been discussed over and over again in the previous pages so I'm not gonna discuss it again but I'll say this: I brought the Allen numbers again because I read yesterday on a Cardinals blog the idea of trading their closer Rosenthal and the auther was speculating about the package they can get and he was in shock how the Padres "fleeced" (It's the term he used) DD in that trade and i think, like many here do, that the author was right.[/quote][br
Come on brother. The great Rivera was torched several times in his Hall of Fame career. It happens to the best of them.
Koji is an ageing veteran. To count on him again at 40 was taking a huge risk considering his injury concerns in spring training last few years.
Far as getting fleeced by SD? The best SS in baseball is starting for Boston. You have a future superstar playing in RF and Jackie in CF is a gold glove defender.
Where were any of those positional prospects going to play?
Far as Allen see DPrice. The Sox have resources to sign any Ace that becomes available. This ain't Oakland where we have to wait 5 years to see what prospect works out..
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Post by malynn19 on May 16, 2016 20:26:39 GMT -5
Without Kimbrell right now I doubt Boston is 10 games over .500. It was a great move on DD part. Overpay? I don't think so. Sox had depth in the OF and at SS in the system. Far as a Prospect pitcher, the next time Boston develops an Ace from the farm will be a first. I doubt Allen is that guy.. You're sure about that? Let me refresh your memory one more time. The record has nothing to do with Kimbrel, it's all about the MLB leading offense, man. Koji would've done the trick just fine. And for the rest of your entry, I totally disagree and it's been discussed over and over again in the previous pages so I'm not gonna discuss it again but I'll say this: I brought the Allen numbers again because I read yesterday on a Cardinals blog the idea of trading their closer Rosenthal and the auther was speculating about the package they can get and he was in shock how the Padres "fleeced" (It's the term he used) DD in that trade and i think, like many here do, that the author was right. This guy. The trade is done, you are right we overpaid, got fleeced, whateva, its done. Put it to rest or Quantum Leap and get it back. We have Kimbrel, thats it. He has a Red Sox uniform on, be supportive until hes no longer here. Only good thing about your constant dislike for Kimbrel is that it gives Owens a rest, another Red Sox member you go on and on about.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,321
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Post by radiohix on May 16, 2016 21:11:33 GMT -5
Easy tiger. Yes, I didn't liked the Kimbrel trade at the time and still don't and quite frankly, seeing him frequently didn't change my opinion of him: running constant 3 balls counts, missing the catcher mitt etc...And I think a lot of people here share that same view and were even more vocal than me on that matter but yeah, you're right we need to give it a rest what is done is done and we're stuck with him. But "going on and on about Owens"? It's a freaking forum discussing prospects and their developement FYI! We sherish their success and point their weaknesses, it's pretty simple. You liked him and you've disappointed by how he fared? so do I. The only difference is that I point out the lack of improvement (heck, I didn't even commented on his last outing!). And you know, I highly recommand this button called "ignore" (I started using it lately and it's really good) if my comments bother you this much Cheers
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,321
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Post by radiohix on May 16, 2016 21:17:19 GMT -5
The record has nothing to do with Kimbrel, it's all about the MLB leading offense, man. Koji would've done the trick just fine. And for the rest of your entry, I totally disagree and it's been discussed over and over again in the previous pages so I'm not gonna discuss it again but I'll say this: I brought the Allen numbers again because I read yesterday on a Cardinals blog the idea of trading their closer Rosenthal and the auther was speculating about the package they can get and he was in shock how the Padres "fleeced" (It's the term he used) DD in that trade and i think, like many here do, that the author was right. [br Come on brother. The great Rivera was torched several times in his Hall of Fame career. It happens to the best of them. [/quote] I was reacting to the "this team wouldn't be 10 games over .500 if they didn't have Kimbrel"
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Post by malynn19 on May 16, 2016 21:42:54 GMT -5
I don't ignore anyone here, whats the point? That's some coward shat, "He hurt my feelings." or "I don't like what he's saying." So let me ignore him, LOL. What are you 12? I did not like the Kimbrel trade, I thought Logan Allen was too much. But I don't think we would be 10 games over 500 without him. We don't want to rely on a 40 year old, he will eventually break down (2015). And Kimbrel makes our bullpen Elite, we have 4 shut down guys if Smith gets his Velocity back. I saw you put up videos of those 2 blown saves, I think there's a few more you forgot to add, but like you said, you only point out the bad. So you can ignore me if you want junior, I promise you it won't hurt my feelings.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,321
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Post by radiohix on May 16, 2016 22:09:49 GMT -5
Clarification: Koji wasn't breaking down ,he was hit by a line drive at the wrist! You could be 21 years old or 40, it will put you on the DL. I prefered signing O'day FWIW and keeping the trade chips for a better trade but hey, it's over now and no Quantum leap around.
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Post by bigpupp on May 16, 2016 22:10:18 GMT -5
Without Kimbrell right now I doubt Boston is 10 games over .500. It was a great move on DD part. Overpay? I don't think so. Sox had depth in the OF and at SS in the system. Far as a Prospect pitcher, the next time Boston develops an Ace from the farm will be a first. I doubt Allen is that guy.. You're sure about that? Let me refresh your memory one more time. The record has nothing to do with Kimbrel, it's all about the MLB leading offense, man. Koji would've done the trick just fine. And for the rest of your entry, I totally disagree and it's been discussed over and over again in the previous pages so I'm not gonna discuss it again but I'll say this: I brought the Allen numbers again because I read yesterday on a Cardinals blog the idea of trading their closer Rosenthal and the auther was speculating about the package they can get and he was in shock how the Padres "fleeced" (It's the term he used) DD in that trade and i think, like many here do, that the author was right. Do you have the clips that show that every time Koji has pitched this year it would have been Tazawa instead? And every time Tazawa has pitched this year it would have been Barnes instead? and every time Barnes has pitched it would have been....You get the idea... It's easy to show two clips and think that proves your point, but the bullpen is now a strength and that is largely because Kimbrel has pushed everyone down a notch on the depth chart - two blowups be damned. EDIT: and for the record, I hated (hate) the trade too, but that is not the point.
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Post by larrycook on May 16, 2016 22:34:35 GMT -5
Clarification: Koji wasn't breaking down ,he was hit by a line drive at the wrist! You could be 21 years old or 40, it will put you on the DL. I prefered signing O'day FWIW and keeping the trade chips for a better trade but hey, it's over now and no Quantum leap around. Getting hit on the wrist is a killer. Even if there are no broken bones it hurts really bad! And the hurts lingers for a really long time. I know the pros have some stuff to make the pain go away for a while, but they did not have that at my high school,
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Post by telluricrook on May 16, 2016 23:11:24 GMT -5
The padres won this trade just based on the fact that they didnt have to give up anybody to replace Kimbrel. All they had to do is shell out 1.6 million to Fernando Rodney who is dominating and has not given up a run in 16 appearances.
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Post by deepjohn on May 16, 2016 23:27:04 GMT -5
And for the rest of your entry, I totally disagree and it's been discussed over and over again in the previous pages so I'm not gonna discuss it again but I'll say this: I brought the Allen numbers again because I read yesterday on a Cardinals blog the idea of trading their closer Rosenthal and the auther was speculating about the package they can get and he was in shock how the Padres "fleeced" (It's the term he used) DD in that trade and i think, like many here do, that the author was right. Radiohix, Google can't find that reference when I search. Can you recall where it was?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 16, 2016 23:27:50 GMT -5
Clarification: Koji wasn't breaking down ,he was hit by a line drive at the wrist! You could be 21 years old or 40, it will put you on the DL. I prefered signing O'day FWIW and keeping the trade chips for a better trade but hey, it's over now and no Quantum leap around. Margot and Guerra were nice chips but the Sox have other secondary chips they could use in a deal that are hitters. Their main trading issue is that they lack the pitchers another team would want back in a deal. If Henry Owens and/or Brian Johnson were pitching better that might be a different story but I would think if I were a team giving up a good starting pitcher, I'd probably want a very promising near major league ready pitcher coming back as a key part of the trade. I think that's where the Sox have problems matching up a bit in a deal for a pitcher. And as far as Kimbrel goes, no he hasn't been as dominating as he was in Atlanta, but like last season, he took about a month to adjust with his new team. Here we are a year later and he had an adjustment period with his latest new team. Since that homer to Rasmus he's been pretty much lights out. I don't like that he extends the count a lot, but he still gets his Ks and doesn't walk too many batters, and he is tough to hit. As big as a Koji fan I am, I'm glad the Sox aren't relying on him to make it thru the season. Koji has pitched well, but his control hasn't been as pinpoint as it has been in the past. He has very little margin for error so I'm glad the Sox have more of a sure thing at this point in Kimbrel, who has been as good or better than any other reliever over the past 5 years, is still young, as is still very effective. And as was pointed out having Kimbrel around shifts everybody down a peg which takes a lot of pressure of Koji who doesn't have to be relied on to close and pressure of Tazawa to have to be the 8th inning guy and puts him in the game earlier which lessens the need for Barnes in the 7th inning and a guy like Noe Ramirez to pitch in the game during the 6th inning (rather would have Barnes than Ramirez). It's definitely a domino effect. As for O'Day, he's a good pitcher, but I'd rather take my chances with Kimbrel than O'Day. He has never closed. Does that mean he can't close? Of course not. All you have to do is look at Uehara. But closing contains a lot of pressure, especially in a market like Boston. Maybe he would have succeeded swimmingly. Or maybe he wouldn't have. I think there would have been a lot more risk with O'Day than some here are willing to admit. You'd think if Showalter thought that O'Day was truly better than Britton, he'd have O'Day closing over Britton, but he doesn't. I think there's more certainty with Kimbrel. I suspect Margot will be a good player. He probably won't get on base often enough to be a huge asset as a #1 or #2 hitter. His defense should be top notch. Guerra's glove should be first rate but I question if his OBP will be better than very mediocre. It's too soon to know how good Allen will be. The scouting reports had him as a backend starter or a #4 type, and Asuaje will be a strong utility guy who might even be serviceable as a starter at 2b. No doubt the Padres will "win the WAR" game and "trade" but that doesn't mean that the Sox necessarily "lost". It isn't about obtaining more WAR than you give up. The Red Sox have solidified a shaky bullpen at a cost of players who are not better than what they already have. Margot is good but he won't dislodge Betts from right, and now we know he won't dislodge JBJ from CF, and he's not a better prospect than Benintendi who will wind up in LF by the time Margot is ready to assume CF for San Diego. Guerra wouldn't sniff SS until Bogaerts leaves as a free agent. By then Dubon could be a SS option. Would Guerra and Margot be key parts of a deal for a #2/3 starter? Sure, but I still think the Sox would need a good #2/3 starting pitching prospect to make that kind of a deal work in order to avoid dealing Benintendi/Moncada/Espinoza/Devers, and they don't really have that (and Kopech not pitching doesn't help that at all). So I propose we all wait on declaring victory or defeat on this trade and let it play out and not go too crazy if Kimbrel blows a save, or saves 20 in a row, or if Margot slumps against lefties or has a hot month, or whatever. If the Sox are winning over the next few years and Kimbrel is a key contributor to post-season Red Sox teams then the Sox got what they wanted. If the Padres have a useful CF, a SS option, a good utility man, and a #4 starter, then good for them. They got what they wanted, too, so even though the Sox gave up a lot, I think this really could be a win-win for both teams. And there's nothing wrong with that at all.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 16, 2016 23:34:51 GMT -5
The padres won this trade just based on the fact that they didnt have to give up anybody to replace Kimbrel. All they had to do is shell out 1.6 million to Fernando Rodney who is dominating and has not given up a run in 16 appearances. The Pads won the trade? Cool, maybe the FO can take a champagne shower to celebrate their exciting victory. Come on, teams don't win trades. They improve their club. If the Padres make their team better over the long term, and the Sox make their team better over the next 3 years, then both teams improved themselves. Why does it have to be win-lose? That's not how trades work. You either improve yourself or you don't, and if you do improve yourself, that doesn't mean that the team you traded with didn't improve themselves. It's not like the Padres get a W assigned to their box score and the Sox get a L assigned to themselves. I have no problem with somebody being of the opinion that the Padres made a great deal or the Sox made a bad deal. I do disagree with the notion that just because the Padres made a great deal that means the Sox had to have made a bad deal. It doesn't work like that. And by the way, I'm glad the Sox don't have Fernando Rodney pitching for them. He's as inconsistent as they come and if my team has post-season aspirations, I'd hate to rely on him. People here squawk about Kimbrel going to 3 ball counts, then they'd be taking heart attack pills watching Rodney pitch. I remember being thrilled that he was the Rays closer in 2013. I knew the Sox were never out of the game if he came into close and that the Sox didn't even need to hit him. No, I'll take Kimbrel and his track record.
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Post by mgoetze on May 17, 2016 3:16:45 GMT -5
Do you have the clips that show that every time Koji has pitched this year it would have been Tazawa instead? And every time Tazawa has pitched this year it would have been Barnes instead? and every time Barnes has pitched it would have been....You get the idea... Do you realize that if we hadn't given up a king's ransom for Kimbrel we would have just signed O'Day?
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Post by mgoetze on May 17, 2016 3:22:55 GMT -5
As for O'Day, he's a good pitcher, but I'd rather take my chances with Kimbrel than O'Day. He has never closed. Does that mean he can't close? Of course not. All you have to do is look at Uehara. OK... where can I see footage of Uehara's first games as a closer back in 2007?
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brisox
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SoxProspects Veteran
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Post by brisox on May 17, 2016 5:59:18 GMT -5
The padres won this trade just based on the fact that they didnt have to give up anybody to replace Kimbrel. All they had to do is shell out 1.6 million to Fernando Rodney who is dominating and has not given up a run in 16 appearances. The Pads won the trade? Cool, maybe the FO can take a champagne shower to celebrate their exciting victory. Come on, teams don't win trades. They improve their club. If the Padres make their team better over the long term, and the Sox make their team better over the next 3 years, then both teams improved themselves. Why does it have to be win-lose? That's not how trades work. You either improve yourself or you don't, and if you do improve yourself, that doesn't mean that the team you traded with didn't improve themselves. It's not like the Padres get a W assigned to their box score and the Sox get a L assigned to themselves. I have no problem with somebody being of the opinion that the Padres made a great deal or the Sox made a bad deal. I do disagree with the notion that just because the Padres made a great deal that means the Sox had to have made a bad deal. It doesn't work like that. And by the way, I'm glad the Sox don't have Fernando Rodney pitching for them. He's as inconsistent as they come and if my team has post-season aspirations, I'd hate to rely on him. People here squawk about Kimbrel going to 3 ball counts, then they'd be taking heart attack pills watching Rodney pitch. I remember being thrilled that he was the Rays closer in 2013. I knew the Sox were never out of the game if he came into close and that the Sox didn't even need to hit him. No, I'll take Kimbrel and his track record. This is a great post Champs. I really can't believe this is still being discussed Margot is having a solid year as a CF with a little speed and better than average range at AAA, but where would he fit on this team? LF would he really be any better than what we have ? Guerra is struggling at A ball and as much as I liked his make up , again, where does he fit? in the hierarchy of things unless a building falls on Xander he would just end up aging out waiting for a break Asuaje is a great hitter and a loss and he is killing it at AAA , but he is very small and he is a ? to maintain at ML , we have our small scrappy overachiever already , and are lousy with outfielders we have no where to play not to mention the number available as FA and trade bait this year Logan Allen is a great prospect and is doing well at A ball but we needed a win now and if this team rolls into the post season I want Kimbrel on the mound in a key game As a whole we gave up a lot and got a lot SD restocked their farm and he have a top tier bullpen . The big thing this trade accomplished is that DD got a chance to really learn how much we prize our prospects in the organization and he has learned a lot about our farm since then. He is in Salem as much as he is in Fenway now. Oh and if people think this is bad, wait till they see what we have to give up to get Trout
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Post by jimed14 on May 17, 2016 7:02:42 GMT -5
You're sure about that? Let me refresh your memory one more time. The record has nothing to do with Kimbrel, it's all about the MLB leading offense, man. Koji would've done the trick just fine. And for the rest of your entry, I totally disagree and it's been discussed over and over again in the previous pages so I'm not gonna discuss it again but I'll say this: I brought the Allen numbers again because I read yesterday on a Cardinals blog the idea of trading their closer Rosenthal and the auther was speculating about the package they can get and he was in shock how the Padres "fleeced" (It's the term he used) DD in that trade and i think, like many here do, that the author was right. Do you have the clips that show that every time Koji has pitched this year it would have been Tazawa instead? And every time Tazawa has pitched this year it would have been Barnes instead? and every time Barnes has pitched it would have been....You get the idea... It's easy to show two clips and think that proves your point, but the bullpen is now a strength and that is largely because Kimbrel has pushed everyone down a notch on the depth chart - two blowups be damned. EDIT: and for the record, I hated (hate) the trade too, but that is not the point. Darren O'Day would have been here instead of Kimbrel and we'd still have all of the prospects to trade for whatever else was needed. That was always the argument.
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Post by jimed14 on May 17, 2016 7:08:17 GMT -5
The Pads won the trade? Cool, maybe the FO can take a champagne shower to celebrate their exciting victory. Come on, teams don't win trades. They improve their club. If the Padres make their team better over the long term, and the Sox make their team better over the next 3 years, then both teams improved themselves. Why does it have to be win-lose? That's not how trades work. You either improve yourself or you don't, and if you do improve yourself, that doesn't mean that the team you traded with didn't improve themselves. It's not like the Padres get a W assigned to their box score and the Sox get a L assigned to themselves. I have no problem with somebody being of the opinion that the Padres made a great deal or the Sox made a bad deal. I do disagree with the notion that just because the Padres made a great deal that means the Sox had to have made a bad deal. It doesn't work like that. And by the way, I'm glad the Sox don't have Fernando Rodney pitching for them. He's as inconsistent as they come and if my team has post-season aspirations, I'd hate to rely on him. People here squawk about Kimbrel going to 3 ball counts, then they'd be taking heart attack pills watching Rodney pitch. I remember being thrilled that he was the Rays closer in 2013. I knew the Sox were never out of the game if he came into close and that the Sox didn't even need to hit him. No, I'll take Kimbrel and his track record. This is a great post Champs. I really can't believe this is still being discussed Margot is having a solid year as a CF with a little speed and better than average range at AAA, but where would he fit on this team? LF would he really be any better than what we have ? Guerra is struggling at A ball and as much as I liked his make up , again, where does he fit? in the hierarchy of things unless a building falls on Xander he would just end up aging out waiting for a break Asuaje is a great hitter and a loss and he is killing it at AAA , but he is very small and he is a ? to maintain at ML , we have our small scrappy overachiever already , and are lousy with outfielders we have no where to play not to mention the number available as FA and trade bait this year Logan Allen is a great prospect and is doing well at A ball but we needed a win now and if this team rolls into the post season I want Kimbrel on the mound in a key game As a whole we gave up a lot and got a lot SD restocked their farm and he have a top tier bullpen . The big thing this trade accomplished is that DD got a chance to really learn how much we prize our prospects in the organization and he has learned a lot about our farm since then. He is in Salem as much as he is in Fenway now. Oh and if people think this is bad, wait till they see what we have to give up to get Trout They fit as depth and trade chips for something more useful than an expensive closer who can break down at any point. Every single trade the Red Sox may want to make this year, teams are going to demand one of the big 4 because everyone below those 4 aren't worth enough to headline any deal. That's what we lost in the Kimbrel trade. The flexibility to make any trades that aren't either completely minor or a blockbuster. I really hope that last bit isn't inside information.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 17, 2016 7:41:21 GMT -5
You can not like the trade all you want but the argument that Koji would be just fine is ridiculous. It's a ripple affect and ultimately it comes down to who would be pitching Tazawas innings? He's been great. Now that Smith is back and once he's at full strength it gives 4 dominant arms back there which is huge for a team with mediocre starters. Sometimes an over-pay from strength isn't a bad trade. The bullpen (yes along with the offense) is a big reason why this team is a contender with Price and Buccholz and their Kelley spot in the rotation being terrible. Without that bullpen this team is buried right now and Kimbrell is a big part of that.
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Post by scottysmalls on May 17, 2016 8:03:34 GMT -5
I don't get why there is so much confusion here. In a vacuum, yes, the trade helps the Red Sox in the short term. But it's not a vacuum, if they didn't get Kimbrel they would have signed O'Day or traded for Chapman (whatever you may think of that), and maybe been slightly worse but not too significantly, and still had Margot, Guerra, and Allen. Margot and Guerra may not have a spot on today's roster (although Margot could be competing for a starting OF job soon), but they could still be used as part of a trade if someone gets hurt or we want another starter.
Kimbrel is a big part of the bullpen being a strength, but it didn't HAVE to be Kimbrel, that's the issue people have with the deal.
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