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What's Your Plan to Finish the Bullpen Rebuild?
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Post by rafael on Nov 16, 2015 16:44:23 GMT -5
I like Kelly as a starter. He is not great by any means, but he is a solid #5 starter, with potential to be better. His stuff would probably play up out of the 'pen though.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Nov 17, 2015 9:05:41 GMT -5
I like Kelly as a starter. He is not great by any means, but he is a solid #5 starter, with potential to be better. His stuff would probably play up out of the 'pen though. Kelly has the 4 pitch arsenal to be a starter. If we sign a #1. that pushes everyone down....Assuming Owens & Johnson are in AAA for depth. That puts the FA, Porcello, Erod, Miley, Kelly....Due to the options, that's what I would roll with....the difference between Owens & Kelly/Miley are close. Just saying we need that depth in AAA.....Also have Wright as a long/swingman in the pen.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 17, 2015 9:08:03 GMT -5
I like Kelly as a starter. He is not great by any means, but he is a solid #5 starter, with potential to be better. His stuff would probably play up out of the 'pen though. Kelly has the 4 pitch arsenal to be a starter. If we sign a #1. that pushes everyone down....Assuming Owens & Johnson are in AAA for depth. That puts the FA, Porcello, Erod, Miley, Kelly....Due to the options, that's what I would roll with....the difference between Owens & Kelly/Miley are close. Just saying we need that depth in AAA.....Also have Wright as a long/swingman in the pen. You forgot Buccholz. FA Sign Buccholz Porcello Rodriguez Miley That's the rotation. I don't think they would choose Kelly over Miley. Miley gave us 190 IP last year and is the ideal 5th starter. Kelly doesn't get deep enough into games to justify startin him over Miley IMO.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 17, 2015 9:53:27 GMT -5
I like Kelly as a starter. He is not great by any means, but he is a solid #5 starter, with potential to be better. His stuff would probably play up out of the 'pen though. Kelly has the 4 pitch arsenal to be a starter. If we sign a #1. that pushes everyone down....Assuming Owens & Johnson are in AAA for depth. That puts the FA, Porcello, Erod, Miley, Kelly....Due to the options, that's what I would roll with....the difference between Owens & Kelly/Miley are close. Just saying we need that depth in AAA.....Also have Wright as a long/swingman in the pen. Wright as a long man out of the bullpen makes a lot of sense. After five or six innings of mid 90s offerings from the likes of E-Rod and Kelly, batters should be well off their timing. I know the prevailing thinking, and Dombrowski's mission, is to acquire a shiny new toy for the rotation, I'd settle for a Bucc-E-Rod-Porcello-Miley-Kelly tandem to start the season. Of course, a lot depends on Buccholz' health, but this rotation, pitching to its potential, could be sufficient. Then there's always Owens and Johnson MLB ready at Pawtucket.
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Post by soxcentral on Nov 17, 2015 10:01:45 GMT -5
I know the prevailing thinking, and Dombrowski's mission, is to acquire a shiny new toy for the rotation, I'd settle for a Bucc-E-Rod-Porcello-Miley-Kelly tandem to start the season. Of course, a lot depends on Buccholz' health, but this rotation, pitching to its potential, could be sufficient. Then there's always Owens and Johnson MLB ready at Pawtucket. If you're gonna go there then it makes sense to bring Rich Hill back too and start Kelly in the pen, keeping him stretched out as another long man for when Buchholz or Hill go down.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Nov 17, 2015 10:01:59 GMT -5
Kelly has the 4 pitch arsenal to be a starter. If we sign a #1. that pushes everyone down....Assuming Owens & Johnson are in AAA for depth. That puts the FA, Porcello, Erod, Miley, Kelly....Due to the options, that's what I would roll with....the difference between Owens & Kelly/Miley are close. Just saying we need that depth in AAA.....Also have Wright as a long/swingman in the pen. You forgot Buccholz. FA Sign Buccholz Porcello Rodriguez Miley That's the rotation. I don't think they would choose Kelly over Miley. Miley gave us 190 IP last year and is the ideal 5th starter. Kelly doesn't get deep enough into games to justify startin him over Miley IMO. Sorry about Buccholz.......That puts Kelly to the pen I guess as the 6th inning guy (which wouldn't be the worst thing)?.....This scenario has trade written all over it. I still don't think we need to deduct from the overall rotation as most teams go through 8 or 9 starters in a season & we have no one else in Paw or Port to fill in. Not sure if we can carry 2 swingman/long guys in the BP. (Kelly/Wright).
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Post by jrffam05 on Nov 17, 2015 10:38:48 GMT -5
I'd be open to a trade for Papelbon to round out the bullpen, assuming the cost would be less than what the Nationals gave up for him. The Nats traded Nick Pivetta for 2 months of Papelbon at $400K, and $11M for 2016. The most valuable part of that contract is over now that Philly isn't subsidizing the contract any more. If it takes a Stankiewicz, Ball, or Buttrey to get him, all of whom I think are comparable to Pivetta, I'd make that move.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Nov 17, 2015 10:56:56 GMT -5
If you're gonna go there then it makes sense to bring Rich Hill back too and start Kelly in the pen, keeping him stretched out as another long man for when Buchholz or Hill go down. Bradford on WEEI site: Rich Hill is about to get the best contract of his career. According to a major league source, the free agent lefty is expected to sign with a team this week. It is not expected the Red Sox will be a candidate for Hill’s services.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Nov 17, 2015 15:42:52 GMT -5
If you're gonna go there then it makes sense to bring Rich Hill back too and start Kelly in the pen, keeping him stretched out as another long man for when Buchholz or Hill go down. Bradford on WEEI site: Rich Hill is about to get the best contract of his career. According to a major league source, the free agent lefty is expected to sign with a team this week. It is not expected the Red Sox will be a candidate for Hill’s services. I hope he does well....I was reading a SD website, it says they are a possibility & that they will try to move T Ross. Appears they are somewhat rebuilding.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Nov 17, 2015 17:59:35 GMT -5
You forgot Buccholz. FA Sign Buccholz Porcello Rodriguez Miley That's the rotation. I don't think they would choose Kelly over Miley. Miley gave us 190 IP last year and is the ideal 5th starter. Kelly doesn't get deep enough into games to justify startin him over Miley IMO. Sorry about Buccholz.......That puts Kelly to the pen I guess as the 6th inning guy (which wouldn't be the worst thing)?.....This scenario has trade written all over it. I still don't think we need to deduct from the overall rotation as most teams go through 8 or 9 starters in a season & we have no one else in Paw or Port to fill in. Not sure if we can carry 2 swingman/long guys in the BP. (Kelly/Wright). Then why not attempt an in season trade of Buchholz paired with one of the depth pieces. Worst case Buchholz is injured and the other team does not pick up his option and the fallback is they still have a solid prospect in Kelly/Owens/Johnson/Wright. Best case he's finally healthy and they win the trade but the Sox finally get a pitcher close to the talent of Buchholz but without the frailty. This is contigent upon Buchholz teasing everyone by being healthy again. Who would be an acceptable target in this case? It would have to be a player about a year and half away from FA and likely a smaller marker team. Is this idea futile, is there someone out there that fits this description?By midseason our SR could be; 1. Acquired Ace via FA (this offseason) 2. Acquired #2 via trade (Acquired in a Buchholz + 1 of Kelly/Owens/Johnson/Wright in season trade next year) 3. Porcello 4. E-rod 5. Miley The depth would be the remaining 3 of Kelley/Owens/Johnson/Wright not traded who would have spent the season either in the pen or the minors.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 17, 2015 18:42:46 GMT -5
Sorry about Buccholz.......That puts Kelly to the pen I guess as the 6th inning guy (which wouldn't be the worst thing)?.....This scenario has trade written all over it. I still don't think we need to deduct from the overall rotation as most teams go through 8 or 9 starters in a season & we have no one else in Paw or Port to fill in. Not sure if we can carry 2 swingman/long guys in the BP. (Kelly/Wright). Then why not attempt an in season trade of Buchholz paired with one of the depth pieces. Worst case Buchholz is injured and the other team does not pick up his option and the fallback is they still have a solid prospect in Kelly/Owens/Johnson/Wright. Best case he's finally healthy and they win the trade but the Sox finally get a pitcher close to the talent of Buchholz but without the frailty. This is contigent upon Buchholz teasing everyone by being healthy again. Who would be an acceptable target in this case? It would have to be a player about a year and half away from FA and likely a smaller marker team. Is this idea futile, is there someone out there that fits this description?By midseason our SR could be; 1. Acquired Ace via FA (this offseason) 2. Acquired #2 via trade (Acquired in a Buchholz + 1 of Kelly/Owens/Johnson/Wright in season trade next year) 3. Porcello 4. E-rod 5. Miley The depth would be the remaining 3 of Kelley/Owens/Johnson/Wright not traded who would have spent the season either in the pen or the minors. Buch + Prospect for a somewhat better pitcher with an extra year of control would have to fit some extreme circumstances for that other club. It's a weird move, because it sounds like they're adding payroll, and taking back Buchholz on what amounts to the hope they opt out? Why wouldn't they just trade their guy for that prospect and another prospect and leave Buchholz out of it? You don't see trades too often where guys get traded and the return is somewhat comparable guys. If a guy is good, and you're trading him for prospects, you trade him for prospects. More likely: you see Buchholz traded for an OF-er, or another position player, or prospects they then spin somewhere else. In any case, Buchholz will probably be more useful to this team than anyone else's team, and if he's suddenly expendable, then our staff is pitching out of their minds regardless.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Nov 18, 2015 10:47:35 GMT -5
Was surprised Hill only got 6 mil from Oak. That gives them 7 starters. Not exactly an "open" spot there....but back to BP...If we add either O'day or Pap, which would not cripple us in any way, I think it makes our BP a real weapon. Not exactly KC strong, but strong....The NYY got to the playoffs simply due to their BP. How many games did we lose in the 7-9 inning. The only problem with Papelbon is that he may want/demand to close. If he can accept sharing the 8th & 9th inning, we would be ok.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 18, 2015 13:56:47 GMT -5
Was surprised Hill only got 6 mil from Oak. That gives them 7 starters. Not exactly an "open" spot there....but back to BP...If we add either O'day or Pap, which would not cripple us in any way, I think it makes our BP a real weapon. Not exactly KC strong, but strong....The NYY got to the playoffs simply due to their BP. How many games did we lose in the 7-9 inning. The only problem with Papelbon is that he may want/demand to close. If he can accept sharing the 8th & 9th inning, we would be ok. Paps' ego wouldn't allow for him to be anything than the closer. He's not coming to Boston.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Nov 18, 2015 14:45:53 GMT -5
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 18, 2015 14:57:54 GMT -5
Definitely steep, and definitely painful for Sox. But I have a feeling they're seriously interested. O'Day is a little different as he's not a flamethrower, so longevity might be a little easier. The trade for Kimbrel surprised me not because of the talent given up, but because there was no monetary savings involved. That deal plus DD coming out and saying they'd be active in the SP starting market makes me think Henry has opened the wallet, which he should. Two bad years, and a team with it's own TV network. We pay 15 more cents per OZ for beer in their park than the next closest. And a quarter more per OZ than the league average haha.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 18, 2015 17:00:33 GMT -5
That's just ridiculous. I wouldn't even give a 33 year old 3 years.
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Post by jmei on Nov 18, 2015 17:40:43 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 18, 2015 17:50:16 GMT -5
I don't agree with that. If he gets 4 years, Chapman will probably want 6? This is just a crazy precedent.
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Post by soxfanatic on Nov 18, 2015 17:54:46 GMT -5
David Carpenter elected free agency today after being outrighted by the Nationals. Exactly the type of arm to buy low on. Clearly wasn't himself this season after two very solid years with the Braves. The velocity is still there though.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 18, 2015 17:55:46 GMT -5
I don't agree with that. If he gets 4 years, Chapman will probably want 6? This is just a crazy precedent. Ehh. O'Day is extremely solid, has a great track record, isn't a max effort pitcher, and most importantly, he's the best FA reliever in a bad market. I cannot stress enough how important it is to gauge the market, and a team's individual place in that market. Say a team like the Angels really really wants a reliever, and decide to bid for O'Day, and O'Days camp KNOWS they don't have the bullets on the farm to trade for an impact arm, they will probably end up having to stretch to pay a premium for his services.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 18, 2015 17:59:02 GMT -5
David Carpenter elected free agency today after being outrighted by the Nationals. Exactly the type of arm to buy low on. Clearly wasn't himself this season after two very solid years with the Braves. The velocity is still there though. Good find. Really interesting thought, and I think it's worthy of speculation, especially since Carpenter found some decent success with Atlanta under Frank Wren, and behind Varvaro and Kimbrel.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Nov 18, 2015 23:12:05 GMT -5
I personally would like to sign Oh Seung-hwan. Something in the range of 3 years / 14 million. But I really have no sense of what he will command, or if he would prefer closing for somebody. In terms of voting, I voted "Keep Miley, sign cheap upside arm." But its possible this option is somewhere in between the "cheap upside arm" and "signing O'Day" options.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Nov 20, 2015 11:05:16 GMT -5
David Carpenter elected free agency today after being outrighted by the Nationals. Exactly the type of arm to buy low on. Clearly wasn't himself this season after two very solid years with the Braves. The velocity is still there though. It could be just bad luck, it just seems we don't do well on these "buy-low" guys.....maybe we're due. We need one more piece to really make this bullpen a weapon. Right now it's simply serviceable.
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Post by jmei on Nov 20, 2015 11:15:51 GMT -5
They did pretty well on buy-low guys in 2013.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Nov 20, 2015 12:44:38 GMT -5
They did pretty well on buy-low guys in 2013. I was referring to 2014 & 2015....In 2013, many of those additions were IMO not buy-low, most were solid players, not spectacular, but solid...Nap, Koji, Vic, Drew, Carp even Ross & Dempster. I think what was surprising, was that just about ALL of them had good or great years. Since then--Sizemore, Mujica, Cook, Machi, Masterson, Ogando, Peguero, Weeks, I consider as real buy low candidates & none of them panned out.
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