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Post by p23w on Nov 19, 2015 18:44:30 GMT -5
I want a world class bullpen for the RS in 2016. I think we are Giles or Storen away from this objective. I think we match up well with both the Phils and the Nats to bring one of this arms into the fold.
My thought is JBJ + Marrero for Storen. JBJ plays CF, Marrero replaces the departing SS. Nats get defensive strength up the middle. RS get a versatile quality end of game bullpen.
My thought for Giles is JBJ + Shaw. JBJ plays CF, Shaw spells Howard at 1B and Ruff in LF. RS get a quality younger arm to compliment Kimbrell and Uehara.
I don't believe we loose that much on defense in CF, SS. Possibly some at 1B, but that was to be expected with Hanley. When Hanley takes over from Ortiz at DH in 2017, Sam Travis should be ready to take over at 1B.
I think this will have a slight improvement to the offense. Holt will probably see more playing time.
The major benefit will be to the pitching staff. Starters will have the luxury of knowing that their work going through the opposition line up 3 times will more often than not result in a W. The embarrassing statistic of the BS from 2015 bullpen should result in a +10 win differential in 2016.
FWIW I'm looking for 185-200 IP from the back end of my proposed bullpen. The best quality 185-200 IP from the 1450 (or so) IP that the staff will throw.
Thoughts? Comments?
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Nov 19, 2015 18:57:24 GMT -5
Who would replace Bradley
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 19, 2015 19:46:22 GMT -5
I'm not exactly sure how they trade JBJ for a reliever. We're already in the market for a 4th OF, now we need two. Not to mention a starter to grab in FA.
If JBJ is dealt I would assume it's for a cost-controlled starter (so you have money left to fill your other voids). Storen's also due for a raise, and has 1 year of control. Next season Koji, Taz, and Storen would all hit the market.
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Post by rafael on Nov 19, 2015 23:12:02 GMT -5
Rizzo would do backflips if we offer Bradley for Storen. The bullpen does not need more major acquisitions. A couple of buy-low guys to round it out and it should be fine.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 20, 2015 8:16:00 GMT -5
JBJ could easily be worth more than the entire bullpen by himself. I'm rooting for the team with the worst bullpen to win the WS from now on.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Nov 20, 2015 8:54:23 GMT -5
Who would replace Bradley I think I would flip Bradley/Marrero for Giles as he is under control till 2020....I know we'd need to sign 2 OF. I'd go after Chris Young AND Parra for 2 years. Would make a decent platoon for LF until AB is ready. Middle infield depth would be thin though relying completely on Holt. Though it seems as if a Rutledge type are a dime a dozen. |
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 20, 2015 9:45:53 GMT -5
I wouldn't trade JBJ for any reliever. Maybe Betances, but that's not happening obviously.
The hole he'd leave is way bigger than the hole he'd fill in the bullpen.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 20, 2015 9:52:16 GMT -5
I love bullpens as much as anyone and am as skeptical on Bradley as almost anyone. That being said, this team NEEDS JBjr in a bad way. Not only does he have a chance to be excellent, but his salary in the OF is too valuable. This team doesn't have the salary spot to absorb the reliever and an outfield replacement and a top line starter. As it is, they would need to dump salary to get both a top bullpen guy and starter. Buchholz is that guy IMO.
I'm all for adding another big piece to the pen but I'd try to do it in FA. The advantage to doing it via trade is the guy has no choice and it may be hard to get a Soria or ODay here when Kinbrel is closing. I'm probably not trading Shaw in a package for one of them either because he's an important piece to the team this year.
Marrero and Vasquez for Giles....
Hahahaha just kidding. Hope Eric and other posters are still alive.
Maybe you could sell them on something like Marrero, Chavais, Ball and Light for Giles, but I doubt it.
I'm sure people here will think that's way too much but I think Philly laughs at it.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 20, 2015 10:24:03 GMT -5
Apparently we are still looking for bullpen help via trade.
We must be going for a young reliever, as we are out on Soria (so I would assume O'Day too), so are probably looking for a minimal salary.
I love Giles, but he's a known commodity with a lofty price tag. It's time for Dombrowski to find some magic from a less obvious place. I'm sure between he and Hazen they have some ideas of who they want.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Nov 20, 2015 11:27:40 GMT -5
Apparently we are still looking for bullpen help via trade. We must be going for a young reliever, as we are out on Soria (so I would assume O'Day too), so are probably looking for a minimal salary. I love Giles, but he's a known commodity with a lofty price tag. It's time for Dombrowski to find some magic from a less obvious place. I'm sure between he and Hazen they have some ideas of who they want. I hope our new FO/Bannister is better at scouting arms than our last regime. The bullpen over the last few years has been historically bad aside from Koji/Taz & they have been worked like mules to make up for all the buy-low guys....need more sure things & Kimbrel was a good start. Need one more guy. |
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,823
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Post by steveofbradenton on Nov 20, 2015 12:48:50 GMT -5
I love bullpens as much as anyone and am as skeptical on Bradley as almost anyone. That being said, this team NEEDS JBjr in a bad way. Not only does he have a chance to be excellent, but his salary in the OF is too valuable. This team doesn't have the salary spot to absorb the reliever and an outfield replacement and a top line starter. As it is, they would need to dump salary to get both a top bullpen guy and starter. Buchholz is that guy IMO. I'm all for adding another big piece to the pen but I'd try to do it in FA. The advantage to doing it via trade is the guy has no choice and it may be hard to get a Soria or ODay here when Kinbrel is closing. I'm probably not trading Shaw in a package for one of them either because he's an important piece to the team this year. Marrero and Vasquez for Giles.... Hahahaha just kidding. Hope Eric and other posters are still alive. Maybe you could sell them on something like Marrero, Chavais, Ball and Light for Giles, but I doubt it. I'm sure people here will think that's way too much but I think Philly laughs at it. I would definitely be all for that swap, but as you said......not going to happen. The "point" I'm going to make is the 4 players you mention above are ALL 1st round draft choices, and ALL have shown some warts (or worse). Just lining those 4 up show you want a crap- shot the draft can be. And it is not just high schoolers. Of the 4 listed, 2 are 3-year college kids. I never have seen those 4 listed together, it just makes you re-evaluate prospects some. There are so many misses....even if you were drafted high! |
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Post by p23w on Nov 20, 2015 14:42:41 GMT -5
JBJ could easily be worth more than the entire bullpen by himself. I'm rooting for the team with the worst bullpen to win the WS from now on. This has been the RS MO for far too long. The Giants, and more recently the Royals have proved the value to a world class BP. |
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Post by p23w on Nov 20, 2015 14:44:10 GMT -5
JBJ could easily be worth more than the entire bullpen by himself. I'm rooting for the team with the worst bullpen to win the WS from now on. Switch sports. It ain't happening. |
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Post by p23w on Nov 20, 2015 14:49:01 GMT -5
I wouldn't trade JBJ for any reliever. Maybe Betances, but that's not happening obviously. The hole he'd leave is way bigger than the hole he'd fill in the bullpen. Well you are welcome to your opinion. Methinks you're in la-la land to so much as postulate a trade for Betances. The difference between JBJ and Mookie, defensively is limited to arm strength. There are a plethora of replacement 4th OFers available, Robbie Grossman for example. |
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Post by p23w on Nov 20, 2015 15:01:22 GMT -5
I love bullpens as much as anyone and am as skeptical on Bradley as almost anyone. That being said, this team NEEDS JBjr in a bad way. Not only does he have a chance to be excellent, but his salary in the OF is too valuable. This team doesn't have the salary spot to absorb the reliever and an outfield replacement and a top line starter. As it is, they would need to dump salary to get both a top bullpen guy and starter. Buchholz is that guy IMO. I'm all for adding another big piece to the pen but I'd try to do it in FA. The advantage to doing it via trade is the guy has no choice and it may be hard to get a Soria or ODay here when Kinbrel is closing. I'm probably not trading Shaw in a package for one of them either because he's an important piece to the team this year. Marrero and Vasquez for Giles.... Hahahaha just kidding. Hope Eric and other posters are still alive. Maybe you could sell them on something like Marrero, Chavais, Ball and Light for Giles, but I doubt it. I'm sure people here will think that's way too much but I think Philly laughs at it. I'm pretty sure both Philly and the Nationals want ML line up players in exchange for Giles or Storen. JBJ would be that guy with a near ready prospect (Marrero or Shaw) to seal the deal. Both teams are significant underachievers, for a variety of reasons. Both (much like the Braves and the Padres) need to "shake things" up. I think the RS can take advantage of this. I don't trust or like either Soria or O'Day. I think we need to get younger in the bullpen (Koji is 41), and we need to acquire one of these two guys. The Nats in particular are in need of new faces. Between their front office and their manager they were a bigger disappointment to their fans in 2015 than the RS were in 2011. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 20, 2015 17:00:42 GMT -5
Trea Turner >>>>> Deven Marrero. Nats don't need a SS guys.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 20, 2015 17:28:35 GMT -5
And Storen only has 1 year of control left.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 21, 2015 9:55:11 GMT -5
Can you explain how the Sox trade Bradley then afford to replace him and add a top starter and a fourth outfielder all while having a realistic payroll?
It's easy to look a Bradley in a vacuum and say they have Betts so he's able to be dealt. That makes complete sense. I think where you are losing it is that JBjrs salary is of huge value to this team right now for this year.
Take a look, explain it to me, because I'm all about selling high on Bradley. That being said, if you are trading Bradley, it's not for one year of Storen and it better not include more than him for Giles.
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Post by p23w on Nov 21, 2015 15:51:06 GMT -5
Can you explain how the Sox trade Bradley then afford to replace him and add a top starter and a fourth outfielder all while having a realistic payroll? It's easy to look a Bradley in a vacuum and say they have Betts so he's able to be dealt. That makes complete sense. I think where you are losing it is that JBjrs salary is of huge value to this team right now for this year. Take a look, explain it to me, because I'm all about selling high on Bradley. That being said, if you are trading Bradley, it's not for one year of Storen and it better not include more than him for Giles. Grossman would be the equivalent to Bradley, with respect to payroll. The only payroll "hit" would be to extend Storen or Giles with a 4 year deal. I'm not a cash flow bottom line baseball fan. Whether or if the RS sign a top starter is irrelevant to this thread. There are a plethora of examples where big ticket deals are consummated by the front office that make next to zero baseball sense to me. |
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Post by p23w on Nov 21, 2015 15:57:55 GMT -5
Trea Turner >>>>> Deven Marrero. Nats don't need a SS guys. Fair enough. Is Marrero >>>> Danny Espinosa? |
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Post by jmei on Nov 21, 2015 16:23:56 GMT -5
Trea Turner >>>>> Deven Marrero. Nats don't need a SS guys. Fair enough. Is Marrero >>>> Danny Espinosa? No. |
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Post by jiant2520 on Nov 22, 2015 10:17:45 GMT -5
And Storen only has 1 year of control left. And he is upset being a setup guy.... wouldn't he just be disgruntled here?? |
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 22, 2015 12:09:05 GMT -5
And Storen only has 1 year of control left. And he is upset being a setup guy.... wouldn't he just be disgruntled here?? Yep. Control was paramount for Kimbrel deal. I don't think they'd even look to Storen unless it's for super cheap. |
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