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Post by Guidas on Dec 12, 2012 9:11:58 GMT -5
So to be clear, virtually no one here is for extending Ellsbury if he can be had for 5 yrs or fewer?
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Post by jdb on Dec 12, 2012 9:14:48 GMT -5
I just get the feeling with this coming out BC has a landing spot for Ells. Choo basically got Bauer so maybe one of the Mariners Sp prospects isnt out of the question. Reports the end of last week said only prospects had been offered for Ells so maybe it has taken a while to get a third team involved.
Also Olney tweeted that rival executives are saying Boston is about to move on pitching.
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Post by raftsox on Dec 12, 2012 9:16:13 GMT -5
And all Ben has to do to gain my trust is go get an elite starter who is under 30 years old. Ha!. 2010-2012, sorted by FIP and min 500 IP, under 30. Verlander Felix Hernandez Kershaw Greinke Weaver Price Hamels LesterCain Gio Gonzalez Anibel SanchezWould you have gone 6/150 for Greinke? Or, 4/130? Sanchez is the only one available, and he might be up there in cost too. Unfotunately, in today's game, guys like Pedro aren't available for nothing. To pry King Felix away would take at least: Xander, JBJ, Middlebrooks, probably Barnes and our own Felix, too.
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Post by raftsox on Dec 12, 2012 9:18:58 GMT -5
I think the CBA provisions have actually done their job. The Dodgers just have so much money, and so little regard for how they spend it, that its irrelevant. Their TV deal alone can support a $250-$300M expenditure on player salaries. Does anyone know what the NESN deal pays the Sox, or what the YES deal gets for the Yankees? I want to say one of the writers tweeted a list of all pro teams tv deals, but I can't find it It was recently on Fangraphs. The Yanks supposedly get $90M/year and the sox something like $70M/year.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 12, 2012 9:22:12 GMT -5
And all Ben has to do to gain my trust is go get an elite starter who is under 30 years old. Ha!. 2010-2012, sorted by FIP and min 500 IP, under 30. Verlander Felix Hernandez Kershaw Greinke Weaver Price Hamels LesterCain Gio Gonzalez Anibel SanchezWould you have gone 6/150 for Greinke? Or, 4/130? Sanchez is the only one available, and he might be up there in cost too. Unfotunately, in today's game, guys like Pedro aren't available for nothing. To pry King Felix away would take at least: Xander, JBJ, Middlebrooks, probably Barnes and our own Felix, too. To be fair, Pavano was considered a top ten prospect in 1998. Tony Armas was also a pretty good prospect (though he would blossom in Montreal's system).
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Post by raftsox on Dec 12, 2012 9:28:45 GMT -5
To be fair, Pavano was considered a top ten prospect in 1998. Tony Armas was also a pretty good prospect (though he would blossom in Montreal's system).[/quote] Of course they were good, but it would take significantly more in today's game to get a Cy Young winner under 30. Elite, established pitching is scarce and it's costing more to get it. Hopefully I'm proven wrong, but I don't see an established, impact starter walking through the door for a price that we fans are happy with.
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Post by jmei on Dec 12, 2012 9:39:37 GMT -5
There is a Cy Young winner over 30 who is open to a three-year, $31m extension and might be available for only one elite prospect.
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Post by bsout2 on Dec 12, 2012 9:49:35 GMT -5
There is a Cy Young winner over 30 who is open to a three-year, $31m extension and might be available for only one elite prospect. RA Dickey?
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Post by pedroelgrande on Dec 12, 2012 9:50:15 GMT -5
There is a Cy Young winner over 30 who is open to a three-year, $31m extension and might be available for only one elite prospect. He throws a knuckle-ball and they want too much. Its not one elite prospect they want.
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Post by brentl on Dec 12, 2012 9:52:16 GMT -5
Sox could of swung a Ells for Bauer trade im sure. They could of played the role of the Indians. Bauer would of gave us the ready ML player Cher wants an a potentiel ace. Dont no why he didnt get in on that. We could of then signed Hamilton.
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Post by honkbal on Dec 12, 2012 9:52:43 GMT -5
Similar list: 30 or under, 500+IP 2010-2012, sorted by ERA.
Again, the guys in bold are the ones the Red Sox can acquire in the next two years without giving up the entire farm system.
1 Clayton Kershaw 2 Jered Weaver 3 Justin Verlander 4 Felix Hernandez 5 Johnny Cueto 6 David Price 7 Matt Cain 8 Cole Hamels 9 Gio Gonzalez 10 Madison Bumgarner 11 Mat Latos 12 Doug Fister 13 Ian Kennedy 14 Shaun Marcum[FA] (He'll be 31 on Friday) 15 Trevor Cahill 16 Yovani Gallardo[Trade?] 17 Matt Garza 18 Anibal Sanchez[FA] 19 Tim Lincecum 20 James Shields 21 Chad Billingsley 22 Tommy Hanson 23 Zack Greinke 24 Jon Lester
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Post by bluechip on Dec 12, 2012 10:08:58 GMT -5
Sox could of swung a Ells for Bauer trade im sure. They could of played the role of the Indians. Bauer would of gave us the ready ML player Cher wants an a potentiel ace. Dont no why he didnt get in on that. We could of then signed Hamilton. In theory, the Red Sox are a better fit since Ellsbury is actually a centerfielder/traditional lead-off hitter. Choo is going to be shoehorned into that role. Though the Reds may have questions about Ellsbury's durability, and thus have preferred Choo.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 12, 2012 10:10:05 GMT -5
Similar list: 30 or under, 500+IP 2010-2012, sorted by ERA. Again, the guys in bold are the ones the Red Sox can acquire in the next two years without giving up the entire farm system. 1 Clayton Kershaw 2 Jered Weaver 3 Justin Verlander 4 Felix Hernandez 5 Johnny Cueto 6 David Price 7 Matt Cain 8 Cole Hamels 9 Gio Gonzalez 10 Madison Bumgarner 11 Mat Latos 12 Doug Fister 13 Ian Kennedy 14 Shaun Marcum[FA] (He'll be 31 on Friday) 15 Trevor Cahill 16 Yovani Gallardo[Trade?] 17 Matt Garza 18 Anibal Sanchez[FA] 19 Tim Lincecum20 James Shields 21 Chad Billingsley 22 Tommy Hanson 23 Zack Greinke 24 Jon LesterI still like the idea of trading for Lincecum.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2012 10:37:45 GMT -5
why do we need another outfielder?? our outfield is already full.
LF- Gomes/Nava or Kalish CF- Ellsbury RF- Victorino
Our outfield is already very full and i prefer the sox NOT sign another old guy outfielder in swisher
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Post by sibbysisti on Dec 12, 2012 10:54:32 GMT -5
Sox could have swung an Ells for Bauer trade I'm sure. They could have played the role of the Indians. Bauer would have given us the ready ML player Cher wants and a potential ace. Don't know why he didn't get in on that. We could have then signed Hamilton. Touched it up a little bit.
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Post by jdb on Dec 12, 2012 10:57:36 GMT -5
why do we need another outfielder?? our outfield is already full. LF- Gomes/Nava or Kalish CF- Ellsbury RF- Victorino Our outfield is already very full and i prefer the sox NOT sign another old guy outfielder in swisher I tend to think BC might have a team in mind for Ells to get pitching. Maybe a third team could get the Mets involved for Dickie? It looks like the Phil's made a three yr offer to Hamilton . philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/12/12/report-phillies-offer-josh-hamilton-a-three-year-contract/Later, Gerry Fraley of the Dallas Morning News told Gargano and Glen Macnow on 94WIP that he believes a deal in the range of three years, and $80 million would get a deal done with Hamilton.
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Post by honkbal on Dec 12, 2012 11:09:35 GMT -5
why do we need another outfielder?? our outfield is already full. LF- Gomes/Nava or Kalish CF- Ellsbury RF- Victorino Our outfield is already very full and i prefer the sox NOT sign another old guy outfielder in swisher I tend to think BC might have a team in mind for Ells to get pitching. Maybe a third team could get the Mets involved for Dickie? I'm still holding on to my dream scenario of using a combination of Ells, Salty (and maybe Brentz), along with a third team's involvement, to get Dickey. Temple would probably publicly off himself if the Red Sox went out of their way to acquire another knuckleballer.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 12, 2012 11:23:33 GMT -5
And all Ben has to do to gain my trust is go get an elite starter who is under 30 years old. Ha!. 2010-2012, sorted by FIP and min 500 IP, under 30. Verlander Felix Hernandez Kershaw Greinke Weaver Price Hamels LesterCain Gio Gonzalez Anibel SanchezWould you have gone 6/150 for Greinke? Or, 4/130? Sanchez is the only one available, and he might be up there in cost too. Unfotunately, in today's game, guys like Pedro aren't available for nothing. To pry King Felix away would take at least: Xander, JBJ, Middlebrooks, probably Barnes and our own Felix, too. I would trade any 4 of the Sox top 10 minor leaguers for Price or Kershaw, plus 1-2 others from the top 11-20; I would trade any 5 top 10 prospects for King Felix. I would've given Grienke 5 years max, but he is a step down from those three named above (and a step down from Cole Hamels, imho), so I'd have to think about the dollars and see the medicals. I love Sanchez but he's damaged goods and not worth more than 4 yrs. If I had to have him I'd do an overpay on 3 years with a team option for the 4th based on innings pitched in years 2 & 3.
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Post by soxcentral on Dec 12, 2012 11:41:16 GMT -5
So to be clear, virtually no one here is for extending Ellsbury if he can be had for 5 yrs or fewer? Actually I think a lot of our current OF targeting could have Ellsbury's extension in mind. Essentially right now they can turn to Boras and say 'We don't NEED him, but we're open to an extension right now if the terms are reasonable.' And we can say that because Victorino can slide to CF and we'll pick up Swisher/Hamilton to fill the void, but if you want to stay we can keep Victorino in RF and move Ellsbury to LF if/when JB is ready. Maybe that's not happening, but I think if we ever will have tremendous leverage to extend Ellsbury, it is in this time between the Victorino signing and the next potential OF'er to come aboard.
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Post by mainesox on Dec 12, 2012 12:25:30 GMT -5
Sox could of swung a Ells for Bauer trade im sure. They could of played the role of the Indians. Bauer would of gave us the ready ML player Cher wants an a potentiel ace. Dont no why he didnt get in on that. We could of then signed Hamilton. You can be as sure as you want, but that doesn't make it reality.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Dec 12, 2012 12:38:58 GMT -5
Sox could of swung a Ells for Bauer trade im sure. They could of played the role of the Indians. Bauer would of gave us the ready ML player Cher wants an a potentiel ace. Dont no why he didnt get in on that. We could of then signed Hamilton. It is impossible to play this game of counterfactuals. We do not know if Cincinatti preferred Ellsburry to Choo, that Dayton Moore was willing to offer a package Myers, Ordiorizzi, and Montgomery to Boston for Lester and Morales and so forth. Lets try to judge the Red Sox by what they actually do, not based on trades that we have very little knowledge about how they came about. And though I can't know for sure as I have no experience in a MLB front office, I doubt teams working on trades openly broadcast to the rest of the league in hopes that they recieve a better offer. If they did, I imagine that they would be viewed unfavorably in the league and that they would never get anything done.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 12, 2012 15:23:29 GMT -5
I tend to think BC might have a team in mind for Ells to get pitching. Maybe a third team could get the Mets involved for Dickie? I'm still holding on to my dream scenario of using a combination of Ells, Salty (and maybe Brentz), along with a third team's involvement, to get Dickey. Temple would probably publicly off himself if the Red Sox went out of their way to acquire another knuckleballer. I believe WCP is who you're thinking of.
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Post by honkbal on Dec 12, 2012 15:28:51 GMT -5
Thanks. My memory of the who's who of knuckleball haters has faded.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 12, 2012 16:06:45 GMT -5
I'm still holding on to my dream scenario of using a combination of Ells, Salty (and maybe Brentz), along with a third team's involvement, to get Dickey. Temple would probably publicly off himself if the Red Sox went out of their way to acquire another knuckleballer. I believe WCP is who you're thinking of. Tempql self-immolates if Ellsbury gets an extension.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 12, 2012 21:24:37 GMT -5
JIM BOWDEN @jimbowdenespnxm According to Indians source they are continuing aggressive pursuit of Nick Swisher who would replace Choo in RF.
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