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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 3, 2016 15:07:45 GMT -5
MLB Pipeline's top 30 (Jim Callis): 1 Moncada 2 Devers 3 Benintendi 4 Espinoza 5 Kopech 6 Johnson 7 Travis 8 Basabe 9 Marrero 10 Chavis 11 Lakins 12 Doubon 13 Hernandez 14 Raudes 15 Light 16 Ockimey 17 Longhi 18 Rijo 19 Ball 20 Jerez 21 Ysla 22 Aybar 23 Ramos 24 Brakeman 25 Rei 26 Buttrey 27 Steen 28 Martin 29 Shepherd 30 Brentz m.mlb.com/prospects/2016?list=bos |
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Post by dcsoxfan on Mar 3, 2016 16:19:54 GMT -5
Raudes at 14 obviously leaps out; Callis isn't the type to scout box scores.
Somebody seen something everyone else missed or has something changed (or none of the above)?
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Post by jrffam05 on Mar 3, 2016 17:42:26 GMT -5
Raudes at 14 obviously leaps out; Callis isn't the type to scout box scores. Somebody seen something everyone else missed or has something changed (or none of the above)? Fastball 55 Curveball 55 Changeup 50 Control 55 That makes it sound like he is a very promising prospect. Overall grade 45 |
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Post by dcsoxfan on Mar 3, 2016 18:49:14 GMT -5
Raudes at 14 obviously leaps out; Callis isn't the type to scout box scores. Somebody seen something everyone else missed or has something changed (or none of the above)? Fastball 55 Curveball 55 Changeup 50 Control 55 That makes it sound like he is a very promising prospect. Overall grade 45 So why isn't he on anyone else's radar? Just asking. Seems strange, especially since Jim Callis is deservedly respected prospect writer. |
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Post by telson13 on Mar 3, 2016 19:19:17 GMT -5
Fastball 55 Curveball 55 Changeup 50 Control 55 That makes it sound like he is a very promising prospect. Overall grade 45 So why isn't he on anyone else's radar? Just asking. Seems strange, especially since Jim Callis is deservedly respected prospect writer. He's probably just high on him. Maybe he's seen him in person. Raudes made a nice jump to the GCL last year at 17, and had plenty of success, while showing solid stuff including the curve and a FB in the 90-93 range. Logan Allen was considered a guy in the low-teens range, and Raudes is a year younger and pitched equally well in the GCL, over a longer period of time. I think it's just kind of a sleeper call. |
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Post by iakovos11 on Mar 3, 2016 21:02:33 GMT -5
I'd be curious to ask him if Stankiewicz was an oversight or is really so low on him that he's not in our top 30. I mean he's 17 here. I can see be low on him, but outside our top 30 seems a little out of the ordinary.
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Post by ethanbein on Mar 4, 2016 9:52:24 GMT -5
I'd be curious to ask him if Stankiewicz was an oversight or is really so low on him that he's not in our top 30. I mean he's 17 here. I can see be low on him, but outside our top 30 seems a little out of the ordinary. What makes Stankiewicz a top 30 prospect other than that that he was a second round pick? (Non-rhetorical question, honestly curious what people see in him.) |
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Post by ramireja on Mar 4, 2016 10:04:26 GMT -5
I'd be curious to ask him if Stankiewicz was an oversight or is really so low on him that he's not in our top 30. I mean he's 17 here. I can see be low on him, but outside our top 30 seems a little out of the ordinary. What makes Stankiewicz a top 30 prospect other than that that he was a second round pick? (Non-rhetorical question, honestly curious what people see in him.) My take is this. Those that are high on him see advanced control and ~4 usable pitches which may give him a better chance as an MLB backend starter than other pitchers in his tier (Buttery, Ball, etc). Those that are low on him see no plus pitches, the low k rate, and therefore reduced odds at starting at the major league level.....and then maybe lower odds of becoming an effective reliever compared to the likes of Buttrey because of not possessing 1-2 plus pitches. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 4, 2016 10:08:31 GMT -5
What makes Stankiewicz a top 30 prospect other than that that he was a second round pick? (Non-rhetorical question, honestly curious what people see in him.) My take is this. Those that are high on him see advanced control and ~4 usable pitches which may give him a better chance as an MLB backend starter than other pitchers in his tier (Buttery, Ball, etc). Those that are low on him see no plus pitches, the low k rate, and therefore reduced odds at starting at the major league level.....and then maybe lower odds of becoming an effective reliever compared to the likes of Buttrey because of not possessing 1-2 plus pitches. Well said... I see him as a back end starter with ML potential. Maybe not on a pennant contender but those guys have definite value. |
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 4, 2016 10:47:48 GMT -5
I'd be curious to ask him if Stankiewicz was an oversight or is really so low on him that he's not in our top 30. I mean he's 17 here. I can see be low on him, but outside our top 30 seems a little out of the ordinary. What makes Stankiewicz a top 30 prospect other than that that he was a second round pick? (Non-rhetorical question, honestly curious what people see in him.) There are probably quite a few players in the top 30 you could say the same thing about. You don't need to see that much to put someone in the top 30. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 4, 2016 10:48:13 GMT -5
I think it's probably that there's an enormous cluster of guys from like, 13-40 who you could almost put in any order. Maybe that's a slight exaggeration but it's only a slight one.
(FWIW, Callis is booked for the pod. Anything else people want to know about? Those two jumped out at us too.)
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Post by telson13 on Mar 4, 2016 10:53:38 GMT -5
I think it's probably that there's an enormous cluster of guys from like, 13-40 who you could almost put in any order. Maybe that's a slight exaggeration but it's only a slight one. (FWIW, Callis is booked for the pod. Anything else people want to know about? Those two jumped out at us too.) Travis Lakins seems to have helium. People seem more comfortable projecting him as a high-leverage reliever ceiling guy. OTOH, 11 is awfully high for a reliever ceiling in A ball. So is he a legit SP (#3/4 maybe) prospect? |
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Post by telson13 on Mar 4, 2016 10:55:23 GMT -5
Marc Brakeman, too. Just curious to hear his thoughts.
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Post by ramireja on Mar 4, 2016 11:13:54 GMT -5
I think it's probably that there's an enormous cluster of guys from like, 13-40 who you could almost put in any order. Maybe that's a slight exaggeration but it's only a slight one. (FWIW, Callis is booked for the pod. Anything else people want to know about? Those two jumped out at us too.) Ockimmey in a similar position as Raudes......most lists find a spot for him, recognize the pros (raw power, makeup, impressive instructs), but Callis with more aggressive ranking than other lists. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 4, 2016 19:26:36 GMT -5
I think it's probably that there's an enormous cluster of guys from like, 13-40 who you could almost put in any order. Maybe that's a slight exaggeration but it's only a slight one. (FWIW, Callis is booked for the pod. Anything else people want to know about? Those two jumped out at us too.) Travis Lakins seems to have helium. People seem more comfortable projecting him as a high-leverage reliever ceiling guy. OTOH, 11 is awfully high for a reliever ceiling in A ball. So is he a legit SP (#3/4 maybe) prospect? I'd suggest checking out our discussion of him with Alex, when we knew he was going to be ranked 16th but had to dance around saying as much b/c the book wasn't out yet. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 7, 2016 10:45:02 GMT -5
Sam Dykstra at MiLB.Com rated teams by under 21 year old prospects and gave the Red Sox (and Dodgers) an A+.
Boston Red Sox
Top qualifiers: Yoan Moncada, Rafael Devers, Anderson Espinoza, Andrew Benintendi, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe
Analysis: The Red Sox already had one of the most exciting groups of top four prospects, with Moncada, Devers, Espinoza and Benintendi all ranking among MLB.com's top 40 overall. Add in the fact that all four will be 21 come Opening Day and that type of talent is the envy of most other systems. Benintendi likely will be the first of the four to reach Fenway Park, while Cuban sensation Moncada could get plenty of helium in his second stateside season. Further down the list, Basabe should be one to watch as he brings plus speed and above-average power to full-season ball. Grade: A+www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20160307&content_id=166065898&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_milb&sid=milbKind of impressive that a national writer,writing about all the teams, would know his Basabes. |
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 7, 2016 11:16:46 GMT -5
Maybe we can trade the other Luis Basabe and trick a team into thinking he's the good one.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 7, 2016 11:21:05 GMT -5
Maybe we can trade the other Luis Basabe and trick a team into thinking he's the good one. Basabe and Bogaerts. Too bad Ruben isn't a GM anymore, maybe the Diamondbacks. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 7, 2016 13:07:14 GMT -5
Sam Dykstra at MiLB.Com rated teams by under 21 year old prospects and gave the Red Sox (and Dodgers) an A+.
Boston Red Sox
Top qualifiers: Yoan Moncada, Rafael Devers, Anderson Espinoza, Andrew Benintendi, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe
Analysis: The Red Sox already had one of the most exciting groups of top four prospects, with Moncada, Devers, Espinoza and Benintendi all ranking among MLB.com's top 40 overall. Add in the fact that all four will be 21 come Opening Day and that type of talent is the envy of most other systems. Benintendi likely will be the first of the four to reach Fenway Park, while Cuban sensation Moncada could get plenty of helium in his second stateside season. Further down the list, Basabe should be one to watch as he brings plus speed and above-average power to full-season ball. Grade: A+www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20160307&content_id=166065898&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_milb&sid=milbKind of impressive that a national writer,writing about all the teams, would know his Basabes. See, now this makes sense to me. The traditional definition of "prospect" seems more and more arbitrary to me the more I do this stuff. Steven Matz has started three playoff games and is a prospect. But he's more than a year older than Betts and Bogaerts, so aren't. Maybe the best way to evaluate a system's health is the combination of its "prospects" (which accounts for years of control, basically), under-25 players, and under-21 players (which accounts for the long-term future better than U-25). Kind of like using just batting average of just OBP versus looking at the slash line as a whole. |
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Post by jrffam05 on Mar 7, 2016 13:41:43 GMT -5
I might be nit picking, but players who break into the league very young (Heyward, Porcello, Harper, Trout) could still qualify for an under 25 list while only having 1-2 years left of team control under arbitration. Those players at that time are not offering the same benefits to the team's long term outlook as prospects or the general under 25 population, because they have less than 3 years of control and their salaries are closer to the market value while on the cusp of skyrocketing. It also ignores players who will be controlled long term and reasonably through their prime or non decline years, like Sale, Quintana, Rizzo, Archer, Cole.
I think the way to look at it is
Age 27 or 28 and under (based on your age tolerance)
Controlled for 4+ years, unless they signed an extension after being arbitration eligible
Use current prospect rules to define if they are prospects or not, as a second identifier
I do agree with the SP staff in how they have used judgement on borderline cases. I don't think players like Tanaka or Castillo in the past, and Seager and Matz today should be considered prospects. I'd like to see this more in the national coverage.
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badfishnbc
Veteran
Doing you all a favor and leaving through the gate in right field since 2012.
Posts: 413
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Post by badfishnbc on Mar 8, 2016 12:54:43 GMT -5
Ockimey cracking the Top 20 raised my eyebrows. Is he this year's hot pick for breakthrough candidate of 2016?
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