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Post by elguapo on Dec 22, 2012 15:12:46 GMT -5
Let's put it this way - does anyone think Hanrahan is better than Uehara?
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Post by jdb on Dec 22, 2012 15:13:33 GMT -5
It's starting to sound like more of a salary dump for Pittsburg and us clearing some spots on the 40 man roster. I'm fine with that.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 22, 2012 15:19:45 GMT -5
Now I'm getting nervous. Originally some wrote off the idea of Hanrahan as the Sox just being "diligent" - and nothing to see here. But the way the Sox have gone out to secure as much averageness and mediocrity as they can, I think Hanrahan would fit right in - and it's not shocking to see the Sox go after him.
To charliezink, all I can say is that at least Curtis Leskanic cost the Sox absolutely nothing to acquire (and of course with the season on the line he was also the winning pitcher of the game that turned everything around.)
I have no idea what Hanrahan will cost, but I hope it's not much. Originally I threw out the idea of Morales - not because I want the Sox to be dumb enough to do this - but I figured if I was Neil Huntington that's who I'd want.
My guess is that the Sox will surrender one of Morales, Melancon, or Aceves plus Cecchini (or Workman or Jacobs). And honestly, I don't think even that would be a good deal for the Sox.
First off Aceves is valuable for his ability to pitch multiple innings multiple times per week which was something Valentine couldn't grasp. Morales provides a young interesting pitcher who can be an effective lefty out of the pen or possibly a starting pitcher - that through injuries bound to happen would likely necessitate his opportunity to start.
Melancon is most expendable, but even he looked like a much better pitcher later in the year, but I think the Pirates are looking for more starting pitching help.
Realistically, Hanrahan walks way too many batters and that won't play in the AL East, and now he's giving up too many homers. This is an awful combination for a closer and watching him trying to get his cardiac saves is going to get old in no time at all.
What's aggravating is that the root cause of this was because they didn't give Papelbon his 4 year $50 million contract extension, which I didn't personally have a problem with. Closers come and closers go (except for Rivera).
So that lead to the Sox giving up a useful, albeit often injured, SS in Jed Lowrie and a valuable LH hitting OF (which the Sox now lack) in Josh Reddick and a strong 1b prospect in Miles Head (which guess what, the Sox could use this now - although nobody would have suspected this when Gonzalez was around).
All to get the often injured (but effective when he pitched) Andrew Bailey and Mark Melancon. Then the Sox decide they got that wrong, and despite some seriously good numbers by Tazawa and Uehara, they want to bypass them and spend some depth and talent to obtain a one year rental in Hanrahan.
And what comes of this? Either Hanrahan pitches will and at best is trade bait on 7/31 or he pitches lousy. Either way, the Sox wouldn't be able to convert him into other talent other than by trade as they wouldn't give a qualifying offer to a closer - would they? If that was the case, they would have been better off keeping Papelbon and the talent that has exited since because of the uncertainty at the closer spot.
And it's hard to believe that a Bill James team would sweat out a closer situation so much - especially when it's hardly their biggest need or problem that this team has.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 22, 2012 15:22:07 GMT -5
You mean Curtis Leskanic, member of the World Series Champion Boston Red Sox, winner of ALCS Game 6? Don't get me wrong I love the guy. Fine, lemme change that to Eric Gagne post-Red Sox trade. Hey Eric Gagne was the best post-season mop-up man the Sox had in their 2007 Championship team. I had complete faith that he could nail down those double digit victories.
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Post by pbgallag on Dec 22, 2012 15:22:43 GMT -5
Let's put it this way - does anyone think Hanrahan is better than Uehara? Uehara is infinitely better than Hanrahan.
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Post by jdb on Dec 22, 2012 15:30:00 GMT -5
0407 I just don't see us giving up someone like Cecchini for Hanrahan. I'm thinking it's more of dump and it's someone like Aceves + Wilson/Stolmy/Carpenter in some sort.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 22, 2012 15:33:08 GMT -5
Jon Heyman @jonheymancbs One name that could be in mix is Jerry Sands, an OF with power and yrs of control. #hanrahan trade
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 22, 2012 15:33:44 GMT -5
0407 I just don't see us giving up someone like Cecchini for Hanrahan. I'm thinking it's more of dump and it's someone like Aceves + Wilson/Stolmy/Carpenter in some sort. I so hope you're right. If they get Hanrahan - then don't they have a move planned for Bailey? Wouldn't it have been easier just to sign Brian Wilson, who's just as good if not better than Hanrahan?
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Post by mjammz on Dec 22, 2012 15:41:54 GMT -5
According to Jon Heyman and Jim Bowden .. Jerry Sands is in the deal.
That's 1 40 man spot. I definitely think a pitcher from the 40 is going too.
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Post by buffs4444 on Dec 22, 2012 15:42:45 GMT -5
If they get Hanrahan - then don't they have a move planned for Bailey? Wouldn't it have been easier just to sign Brian Wilson, who's just as good if not better than Hanrahan? I was thinking the same about Bailey, Detroit maybe? Awfully crowded back there. Wilson would have been nice for entertainment value alone. He is coming off his 2nd TJ, but sounds like another "character guy" from the reports I've read/seen, which fits with the MO of the off season.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 22, 2012 15:44:32 GMT -5
If Cherrington includes Brentz....well then he deserves all the criticism he is going to get. Ditto for Checchini.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 22, 2012 15:47:28 GMT -5
Now I'm getting nervous. Originally some wrote off the idea of Hanrahan as the Sox just being "diligent" - and nothing to see here. But the way the Sox have gone out to secure as much averageness and mediocrity as they can, I think Hanrahan would fit right in - and it's not shocking to see the Sox go after him. To charliezink, all I can say is that at least Curtis Leskanic cost the Sox absolutely nothing to acquire (and of course with the season on the line he was also the winning pitcher of the game that turned everything around.) I have no idea what Hanrahan will cost, but I hope it's not much. Originally I threw out the idea of Morales - not because I want the Sox to be dumb enough to do this - but I figured if I was Neil Huntington that's who I'd want. My guess is that the Sox will surrender one of Morales, Melancon, or Aceves plus Cecchini (or Workman or Jacobs). And honestly, I don't think even that would be a good deal for the Sox. First off Aceves is valuable for his ability to pitch multiple innings multiple times per week which was something Valentine couldn't grasp. Morales provides a young interesting pitcher who can be an effective lefty out of the pen or possibly a starting pitcher - that through injuries bound to happen would likely necessitate his opportunity to start. Melancon is most expendable, but even he looked like a much better pitcher later in the year, but I think the Pirates are looking for more starting pitching help. Realistically, Hanrahan walks way too many batters and that won't play in the AL East, and now he's giving up too many homers. This is an awful combination for a closer and watching him trying to get his cardiac saves is going to get old in no time at all. What's aggravating is that the root cause of this was because they didn't give Papelbon his 4 year $50 million contract extension, which I didn't personally have a problem with. Closers come and closers go (except for Rivera). So that lead to the Sox giving up a useful, albeit often injured, SS in Jed Lowrie and a valuable LH hitting OF (which the Sox now lack) in Josh Reddick and a strong 1b prospect in Miles Head (which guess what, the Sox could use this now - although nobody would have suspected this when Gonzalez was around). All to get the often injured (but effective when he pitched) Andrew Bailey and Mark Melancon. Then the Sox decide they got that wrong, and despite some seriously good numbers by Tazawa and Uehara, they want to bypass them and spend some depth and talent to obtain a one year rental in Hanrahan. And what comes of this? Either Hanrahan pitches will and at best is trade bait on 7/31 or he pitches lousy. Either way, the Sox wouldn't be able to convert him into other talent other than by trade as they wouldn't give a qualifying offer to a closer - would they? If that was the case, they would have been better off keeping Papelbon and the talent that has exited since because of the uncertainty at the closer spot. And it's hard to believe that a Bill James team would sweat out a closer situation so much - especially when it's hardly their biggest need or problem that this team has. Just to be clear, I did not ghost-write this post (but I am in agreement with a good 90+% of it. Welcome to the light...)
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Dec 22, 2012 15:49:11 GMT -5
I guess Ben is going to keep on trading for closers until he gets it right. He certainly lost on the trades for Melancon and Bailey last offseason. Doesn't make much sense to trade for yet another closer, particularly one like Hanrahan who has limited control and he will be a free agent after the 2013 season. If he gives up something more than Sands and Wilson, then he will have lost yet another trade. I still don't folow the logic of trading for guy who probably isn't any better than Bailey, Uehara or Tazawa and who is probably on a par with Aceves and Bailey.
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Post by mjammz on Dec 22, 2012 15:58:32 GMT -5
JIM BOWDEN @jimbowdenespnxm Pirates source confirms Joel Hanrahan will be dealt to Red Sox and in fact Jerry Sands is part of the deal as speculated by @jonheymancbs
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Post by tns on Dec 22, 2012 16:14:57 GMT -5
For those already poo-pooing acquiring Hanrahan, he's a potential draft pick at the end of next year or flipped for prospects midseason if the Sox fall out of contention. If they can acquire him without giving up anyone part of the long-term plan, it's a shrewd pickup.
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Post by mjammz on Dec 22, 2012 16:15:00 GMT -5
Hanrahan is another guy the Sox will be able to place the tender on after the season if he has an All-Star season. I think these are smart moves.
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Post by elguapo on Dec 22, 2012 16:23:21 GMT -5
Any reliever would have to think long and hard before declining a qualifying offer after seeing the market for Soriano this year. I think there's zero chance Hanrahan gets offered regardless of how well he pitches, and almost certain he'd accept a Q.O.
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Post by mjammz on Dec 22, 2012 16:24:23 GMT -5
JIM BOWDEN @jimbowdenespnxm Pimental and Sands are both in Hanrahan deal according to Pirates source
Neither a huge loss in my opinion.
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Post by charliezink16 on Dec 22, 2012 16:25:37 GMT -5
EDIT: Mloyko got it. Can't complain here, with 40 man potentially at 43, had to clear room and Pimentel/Britton are guys you'd have to expect them to shop around in order to clear space. We have a damn good pen right now, this is a trade no one should dislike IMO
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Post by Guidas on Dec 22, 2012 16:25:59 GMT -5
You'd pay $13M for one year of Hanrahan? Cause I think that's the risk you'd take if you tender him at the end of the season. Not sure Sox would dothis with a reliever not named Mariano Rivera (and esp with this BB %) no matter what kind of year he had.
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Post by elguapo on Dec 22, 2012 16:28:29 GMT -5
If it's anything more than Aceves-Sands-Pimentel there should be a Pirates prospect coming back along with Hanrahan.
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Post by charliezink16 on Dec 22, 2012 16:31:51 GMT -5
And for your laughable tweet of the day, Jon Heyman everybody
@jonheymancbs: Jerry Sands is a terrific athlete w/power. High celing. Holliday type. Will be good get for #pirates if deal is finalized
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Post by lancect on Dec 22, 2012 16:32:59 GMT -5
sands + stolmy + melanson?
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Post by remember04 on Dec 22, 2012 16:35:02 GMT -5
Okay so people actually think Hanrahan will receive a qualifying offer? Somebody pass the eggnog.
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 22, 2012 16:37:55 GMT -5
Okay so people actually think Hanrahan will receive a qualifying offer? Somebody pass the eggnog. With or without???
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