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9/15-9/18 Red Sox vs. Yankees Series Thread
ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 19, 2016 7:17:05 GMT -5
Honest to God, when we were down 4-0 I thought we had a very solid chance of winning. Despite the negativism in the game thread, I bet I wasn't alone, either. For starters, everyone in the dugout. And Hanley just passed Altuve and Kyle Seager and is now 6th in the AL in Win Probability Added. Funny, three weeks ago I'd have guessed they were done. I checked in when it was 4-0, Hanley up, and actually thought...*believed*..."watch, he'll hit another 3-run bomb here." Once it was 4-3, I was pretty sure it was in the bag. They're really picking eachother up in a way they didn't for most of the season. Pomeranz struggles, 'pen crushes it. Hanley puts them back in it, then wins it. This is a team on a roll. I thought he'd hit the HR, too, and said so to my roommate. Like a loop sample from a remix, it bears repeating: there is nothing more volatile in baseball than relief pitching. If that's at the heart of the resurgence, I'm not unhappy. Much better to see the upside at this end of the season than the other way around. Ramirez is rapidly ascending into the hitting stratosphere he last visited with the Dodgers in 2013. He bashed them into the playoffs and probably would have bashed then through it and out the other side except for a visit in the ribs from a Joe Kelley fastball. Lucky for him, Kelley is on his side this time. In 77 PA since August 30, Hanley is at .400 / .455 / .900. He has 11 HR in 55 times making contact. To put that .200 in perspective, Papi this year is at .081.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Sept 19, 2016 7:18:04 GMT -5
Not to turn the page too quickly, but huge series coming up this week in Baltimore ... a split would be ok, any type of win would be huge. Losing 3 of 4 would put the Orioles just one game back, winning 3 of 4 would put them 5 back with just 9 games to go and put the Sox in a position to end the drama early.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 19, 2016 7:20:24 GMT -5
It was 9,600 days..... or 230,400 hours...... or 13,824,000 minutes.....or 829,440,000 seconds (approx) since our last home sweep of the Yankmes.
It was worth all the wait. Great job!!
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Post by sarasoxer on Sept 19, 2016 7:35:38 GMT -5
Not to turn the page too quickly, but huge series coming up this week in Baltimore ... a split would be ok, any type of win would be huge. Losing 3 of 4 would put the Orioles just one game back, winning 3 of 4 would put them 5 back with just 9 games to go and put the Sox in a position to end the drama early. Yeah, we can't afford a letdown and the Orioles are deadly at home (losing road record). I would kill for a split. Somewhere, sometime, we have to let some of our guys get a rest. Mookie looks like a guy on fumes and Bogie has for a while (a one game resurgence notwithstanding). Cleveland and the Cubs have that luxury unfortunately.
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Post by costpet on Sept 19, 2016 7:39:29 GMT -5
About a week ago, there was talk of Girardi being named Manager of the Year. Today the NY papers are calling him a dumb***. Funny how that works. Did Farrell really out manage the "great" Girardi? Is our guy better than their guy? Or is it better to be lucky than good?
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Post by soxjim on Sept 19, 2016 8:04:09 GMT -5
Farrell totally outmanaged Girardi tonight. Girardi stuck far too long with Sabathia. In May, maybe you have the longer hook in the name of saving the bullpen and showing some confidence in your pitcher, but his managing tonight totally lacked the urgency of the Yankees situation. The difference between winning and losing was the difference between their playoff odds being around 1% and somewhere in the 5-6% range. Meanwhile, Farrell used his situational pitchers, Ziegler and Scott, situationally. He then showed no hesitation on giving Kelly and Uehara the highest leverage roles, which is smart given their recent performance. That series was a much, much more devastating sweep than the five game number in 2006 that Yankee fans like to bring up. The 2006 Red Sox were already reeling. They'd just been swept by a pretty mediocre KC team. They had a lot of injuries, and their transition from the 2003-05 core to the core that would make up the 2007 champs was off to a rocky start as Pedroia and Youkilis were not playing so well at that point. I don't know that Girardi got out managed. Earlier in the season Farrell was getting exorciated regularly for leaving his starters in too long and putting in the wrong guys when he did make changes, when the real problem was that almost everyone in the bullpen couldn't be trusted to get anyone out. Well, now Farrell looks like a genius when all of a sudden he has 8 guys in the pen pitching excellent to lights out. Meanwhile, Girardi is playing Russian roulette with HIS pen and most of the chambers are loaded. So of course he tries to milk Sabathia on a night when he pitched well for the most part. I don't agree with the tone but you did say "almost everyone" so overall I agree but still lefty vs righty - one batter. Farrell had a viable option (maybe Girardi did too) early in season in Ross. Girardi might be playing Russian Roulette with his team- I don't know. But Farrell wasn't playing the same roulette early.
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Post by amfox1 on Sept 19, 2016 8:05:05 GMT -5
About a week ago, there was talk of Girardi being named Manager of the Year. Today the NY papers are calling him a dumb***. Funny how that works. Did Farrell really out manage the "great" Girardi? Is our guy better than their guy? Or is it better to be lucky than good? Winning makes a manager look good and losing makes a manager look bad. They get too much credit and too much blame. Anybody who spends any time on this board realizes this.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 19, 2016 8:11:26 GMT -5
Yet you won't see our guy in the discussion about "Manager of the Year" despite the challenges he faced during this season.
One of his moves I liked was giving Robbie Scott a chance in a pressure situation against a lefty. His bullpen management has been outstanding during this pennant push.
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 19, 2016 8:34:14 GMT -5
Yet you won't see our guy in the discussion about "Manager of the Year" despite the challenges he faced during this season. One of his moves I liked was giving Robbie Scott a chance in a pressure situation against a lefty. His bullpen management has been outstanding during this pennant push. If Scott gets hit there, I think Farrell takes a lot of criticism for it. That's definitely one of the cases where it's the results leading the interpretation. But on Sunday, I think Girardi did two clear things wrong: he let Sabathia pitch too long, and he let Butler play first base. Both ended up hurting him. Not using Betances at all might be a mistake as well, but I'm guessing Girardi has a better feeling than I do on how many bullets Betances has left. Farrell did at least four things right that he deserves credit for - he used Ziegler, who was arguably his best reliever without Kimbrel available, in a situational role, rather than the strict closer one; he gave the ninth to Uehara, who has experience in the role, is good, should be limited to one-inning stints, and has the lack of platoon split one would like to see in the ninth; trusted Kelly, who has pitched great out of the bullpen; pinch hit David Ortiz at the right time. As it was, only three of the four moves worked - Ortiz actually looked pretty bad in his at-bat. But it's one of those times where the situation called for the move even if the results didn't play out.
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Post by tjb21 on Sept 19, 2016 8:37:42 GMT -5
Wonderful series.
On to Baltimore.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Sept 19, 2016 8:54:53 GMT -5
Yet you won't see our guy in the discussion about "Manager of the Year" despite the challenges he faced during this season. One of his moves I liked was giving Robbie Scott a chance in a pressure situation against a lefty. His bullpen management has been outstanding during this pennant push. If Scott gets hit there, I think Farrell takes a lot of criticism for it. That's definitely one of the cases where it's the results leading the interpretation. Maybe he would've, but it would have been unjustified. Scott has looked really good since his call-up, and I think it's absolutely the right call to see what he has in a situation like that. Results were good, too, but it was the right call either way. I'm all for Scott getting a chance to prove he deserves a spot in the bullpen going forward. He's already 27, but I think he's got a chance to have a 8-10 year career as a tricky lefty in the pen.
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atzar
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Posts: 1,817
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Post by atzar on Sept 19, 2016 9:00:32 GMT -5
Winning makes a manager look good and losing makes a manager look bad. They get too much credit and too much blame. Anybody who spends any time on this board realizes this. Agree with this 100%. And I think it's true for any sport. I think there are relatively few coaches/managers who actually have a substantial impact on the results of their team, either positive or negative. Gregg Popovich and Bill Belichick would be guys I'd point at as consistent positives, but they also both have (or had; happy trails, Tim Duncan) legendary players who make them look really good.
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Post by manfred on Sept 19, 2016 10:20:27 GMT -5
Is it possible that Hanley is going to be the next Big Papi? This occurred to me too. Obviously not same kind of pressure, but this was a performance like Papi in '04. I've loved everything about Hanley this season, and there feels like a changing of the guard. I'm hoping this lets them save their money by not signing a high priced DH and let's 'em get more pitching.
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 19, 2016 10:41:38 GMT -5
If you knew going in that the Sox starters would pitch 18 innings in this series and give up 15 runs (all earned), would you have predicted a sweep? OTOH, if you knew that the bullpen would pitch 18 and give up just 2, and both of those by Abad in the 9th inning, with a 5-run lead ... you still wouldn't have predicted a sweep.
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pd
Rookie
Posts: 239
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Post by pd on Sept 19, 2016 11:43:37 GMT -5
About a week ago, there was talk of Girardi being named Manager of the Year. Today the NY papers are calling him a dumb***. Funny how that works. Did Farrell really out manage the "great" Girardi? Is our guy better than their guy? Or is it better to be lucky than good? Winning makes a manager look good and losing makes a manager look bad. They get too much credit and too much blame. Anybody who spends any time on this board realizes this.Hard to tell that from the game threads.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Sept 19, 2016 11:55:51 GMT -5
Coaching is something you can talk about and analyze and second-guess ... ESPN can't really fill all those hours, and talk radio certainly can't generate any calls, if people just focus on stuff that actually mattered.
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Post by michael on Sept 19, 2016 12:56:22 GMT -5
[quote author=" ericmvan" source="/post/232519/thread". Ramirez is rapidly ascending into the hitting stratosphere he last visited with the Dodgers in 2013. He bashed them into the playoffs and probably would have bashed then through it and out the other side except for a visit in the ribs from a Joe Kelley fastball. Lucky for him, Kelley is on his side this time.[/quote]. [/quote] Predictive value = Don't let Joe Kelly pitch BP to Hanley.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Sept 19, 2016 13:25:39 GMT -5
Is it possible that Hanley is going to be the next Big Papi? This occurred to me too. Obviously not same kind of pressure, but this was a performance like Papi in '04. I've loved everything about Hanley this season, and there feels like a changing of the guard. I'm hoping this lets them save their money by not signing a high priced DH and let's 'em get more pitching. If Hanley becomes Papi, who then fills Hanley's shoes. Oh, I forgot, we have Shaw/Travis/Sandoval/Moncada who we all know can replicate (in combination) Hanley Ramirez.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 19, 2016 13:38:34 GMT -5
This occurred to me too. Obviously not same kind of pressure, but this was a performance like Papi in '04. I've loved everything about Hanley this season, and there feels like a changing of the guard. I'm hoping this lets them save their money by not signing a high priced DH and let's 'em get more pitching. If Hanley becomes Papi, who then fills Hanley's shoes. Oh, I forgot, we have Shaw/Travis/Sandoval/Moncada who we all know can replicate (in combination) Hanley Ramirez.We got a bonus of a 2nd Papi for the 2nd half of this season but I wouldn't expect it every year. It would be nice, but it's being greedy. You can't have hall of fame level players at every roster spot. When you try that, that's when things go wrong. See 2011.
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,933
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 19, 2016 14:02:15 GMT -5
If Hanley becomes Papi, who then fills Hanley's shoes. Oh, I forgot, we have Shaw/Travis/Sandoval/Moncada who we all know can replicate (in combination) Hanley Ramirez.We got a bonus of a 2nd Papi for the 2nd half of this season but I wouldn't expect it every year. It would be nice, but it's being greedy. You can't have hall of fame level players at every roster spot. When you try that, that's when things go wrong. See 2011. This. Theo broke his own rule of thumb -- "Avoid the temptation to build an uber-team" -- and it backfired. Needs are by definition based on what you have. They are not based on what you used to have and then lost. No one is saying that there won't be an offensive downgrade from Ortiz to Sandoval. That this happens is not automatically a rationale for trying to replace Sandoval's bat with one closer to Ortiz's in caliber. You don't even have to mention that the last guy people wanted to give away for nothing rather than try and see if he might bounce back and actually be as good as the team thought he was when he was signed was ... Hanley Ramirez.
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Post by bosox81 on Sept 19, 2016 14:09:49 GMT -5
Anyone listen to Sterling's description of Hanley's performance this series?
"He's personally murdering the Yankees."
Ha!
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Post by brianthetaoist on Sept 19, 2016 14:10:17 GMT -5
And, this isn't everything, but Sandoval really is working hard and losing a lot of weight. He's likely going to be the third baseman next year, with Shaw bouncing over to first. Perhaps Travis is in the mix in the second half of the year and my long-held dream of a Sam Travis Shaw first base platoon will be realized.
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Post by tjb21 on Sept 19, 2016 15:04:39 GMT -5
I have no idea what to expect from Sandoval next year, but I think he could be the starter until Moncada gets called up in a month or so.
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Post by michael on Sept 19, 2016 15:44:06 GMT -5
Anyone listen to Sterling's description of Hanley's performance this series? "He's personally murdering the Yankees." Ha! It's nothing personal, he's murdering them for all of us.
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Post by jchang on Sept 19, 2016 16:21:56 GMT -5
1982 film Conan the Barbarian Quotes "Mongol General: What is best in life? Conan: To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women."
can substitute YES announcers for women
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