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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 9, 2017 19:33:34 GMT -5
Hm. Fair.
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Post by ryan24 on Sept 10, 2017 7:19:01 GMT -5
Near zero. Holt at least had experience at 2B and SS before he started developing versatility down the defensive spectrum. Swihart's non-catcher experience is at LF (24 games) and 1B (7 games), so he'd be moving up the defensive spectrum (catcher is kind of its own animal). There's no reason to believe he can handle the middle infield competently (and 3B is only a guess) and isn't a fit in RF or CF. You've got a better chance of sticking as a third catcher if you can also play 1B and LF, but that doesn't make you a useful bench player necessarily, as the team is still going to need a backup infielder and probably a 4th outfielder. At the same time, he also hasn't necessarily hit all that great in the majors such that I'd even feel confident going with him over a healthy Holt. Unless there's an injury or two, it's tough for me to imagine a scenario where he's not traded before the start of the season. Teams do go with three-man benches. And the fourth guy on our bench to open last year was Steve Selsky, who started just once in 21 games and had a total of 9 PA and 10.2 defensive inning. He was succeeded by Chase D'Arnaud, who had 1 PA and 1 defensive inning over 18 games. They didn't have a real 4-man bench until Sam Travis arrived on May 23. So a bench of Leon, Holt or Nunez, and Brentz or Castillo, or Leon, Holt, and Nunez, would be perfectly adequate. That leaves you room for Swihart to share the backup catcher position. What about a 4 man bench with Leon, Herandez, swihart and a 4th outfielder. The outfielder, could?? be Brentz. that way Swihart could catch, maybe play left and a little 1st. It depends on whether Blake can hit. Hernandez is your backup infielder. Hanley at DH and keeping Moreland. I know still need a BIg power hitter.
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Post by michael on Sept 11, 2017 11:12:53 GMT -5
Might there be an opportunity to have Swihart play winter ball? Seems like an opportunity to start showing what he is capable of hitting. I know it's only WB but better than nothing.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 11, 2017 11:16:35 GMT -5
Might there be an opportunity to have Swihart play winter ball? Seems like an opportunity to start showing what he is capable of hitting. I know it's only WB but better than nothing. www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/09/boston_red_soxs_blake_swihart_9.htmlAnd re-reading the quotes there, it does seem like one of the main reasons they're trying to get him some versatility is to perhaps get him onto the roster next year. Not unlike sending Johnson to the AFL to work in relief.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 11, 2017 14:00:11 GMT -5
Might there be an opportunity to have Swihart play winter ball? Seems like an opportunity to start showing what he is capable of hitting. I know it's only WB but better than nothing. www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/09/boston_red_soxs_blake_swihart_9.htmlAnd re-reading the quotes there, it does seem like one of the main reasons they're trying to get him some versatility is to perhaps get him onto the roster next year. Not unlike sending Johnson to the AFL to work in relief. I had missed that; thanks for posting it (again?). It's such a logical thing to do -- have Vazquez open the season catching 3 starters, Swihart and Leon 1 each, and if Swihart hits, he can play some LF or 1B. If they sign J.D. Martinez to DH (as Alex Speier has just suggested they might well do) and bat cleanup and move Hanley back to 1B, then a Swihart who hits as projected can play 1B against RHP with big platoon splits, which has the further benefit of reducing Hanley's PA to the point where his option doesn't vest. Holt (if his concussions don't have long-lasting effects), Nunez (if he'd rather be the utility guy on a top-tier contender than start for an also-ran), or Hernandez or Lin (if neither of those pans out) would end up as the 3rd guy on the bench, and Brentz or Castillo would be the 4th guy. In the Martinez scenario, since you're no longer platooning a LHB at 1B and have no need for even a part-time RHH DH, Rusney might be a better option than Brentz. In that scenario you would also have room for both Holt and Nunez. And if Swihart does re-establish his trade value as a starting catcher, you can move him in July, which then opens up a spot for any positional player need -- which could be filled internally or by trade. If he does little or nothing, then you probably have to get what you can for him at the deadline or sooner and do the same thing.
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Post by ryan24 on Sept 12, 2017 7:16:36 GMT -5
I had missed that; thanks for posting it (again?). It's such a logical thing to do -- have Vazquez open the season catching 3 starters, Swihart and Leon 1 each, and if Swihart hits, he can play some LF or 1B. If they sign J.D. Martinez to DH (as Alex Speier has just suggested they might well do) and bat cleanup and move Hanley back to 1B, then a Swihart who hits as projected can play 1B against RHP with big platoon splits, which has the further benefit of reducing Hanley's PA to the point where his option doesn't vest. Holt (if his concussions don't have long-lasting effects), Nunez (if he'd rather be the utility guy on a top-tier contender than start for an also-ran), or Hernandez or Lin (if neither of those pans out) would end up as the 3rd guy on the bench, and Brentz or Castillo would be the 4th guy. In the Martinez scenario, since you're no longer platooning a LHB at 1B and have no need for even a part-time RHH DH, Rusney might be a better option than Brentz. In that scenario you would also have room for both Holt and Nunez. And if Swihart does re-establish his trade value as a starting catcher, you can move him in July, which then opens up a spot for any positional player need -- which could be filled internally or by trade. If he does little or nothing, then you probably have to get what you can for him at the deadline or sooner and do the same thing. What would Martinez get for a salary? IF swihart can play/ fill in at multi spots it sure would help the roster.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 14, 2017 7:24:18 GMT -5
I had missed that; thanks for posting it (again?). It's such a logical thing to do -- have Vazquez open the season catching 3 starters, Swihart and Leon 1 each, and if Swihart hits, he can play some LF or 1B. If they sign J.D. Martinez to DH (as Alex Speier has just suggested they might well do) and bat cleanup and move Hanley back to 1B, then a Swihart who hits as projected can play 1B against RHP with big platoon splits, which has the further benefit of reducing Hanley's PA to the point where his option doesn't vest. Holt (if his concussions don't have long-lasting effects), Nunez (if he'd rather be the utility guy on a top-tier contender than start for an also-ran), or Hernandez or Lin (if neither of those pans out) would end up as the 3rd guy on the bench, and Brentz or Castillo would be the 4th guy. In the Martinez scenario, since you're no longer platooning a LHB at 1B and have no need for even a part-time RHH DH, Rusney might be a better option than Brentz. In that scenario you would also have room for both Holt and Nunez. And if Swihart does re-establish his trade value as a starting catcher, you can move him in July, which then opens up a spot for any positional player need -- which could be filled internally or by trade. If he does little or nothing, then you probably have to get what you can for him at the deadline or sooner and do the same thing. If Swihart does pan out at catcher and has position flexibility, it makes more sense to move Leon than Swihart.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 16, 2017 8:16:46 GMT -5
Good to see Swihart get into a game and play meaningful innings. OTOH he showed his rust by being slow with his swing with SOs in key situations.
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Post by michael on Sept 18, 2017 12:07:14 GMT -5
Good to see Swihart get into a game and play meaningful innings. OTOH he showed his rust by being slow with his swing with SOs in key situations. IMO the key word in your post is rust. If truly just rust, the real Blake Swihart Should immerge. That would be good.
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Post by Addam603 on Oct 4, 2017 20:14:35 GMT -5
If Swihart goes back to full-time catching and does well, does that spell the end to Sandy Leon?
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Post by ramireja on Oct 4, 2017 22:34:01 GMT -5
If Swihart goes back to full-time catching and does well, does that spell the end to Sandy Leon? Long-term? Maybe. But its going to take more than a positive winter league showing to walk away from Leon.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 5, 2017 5:22:11 GMT -5
If Swihart goes back to full-time catching and does well, does that spell the end to Sandy Leon? Long-term? Maybe. But its going to take more than a positive winter league showing to walk away from Leon. You don't need to dump Leon if Swihart makes himself into a versatile weapon off the bench. Think Brock Holt that can catch. I'm intrigued by the idea of Swihart taking Young's place on the bench by next season.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 5, 2017 9:07:15 GMT -5
Read the link. He talks about how his ankle issues threw his swing out of whack, then when he got healthy he had to completely re-learn his swing. He doesn't sound like a guy who'll be ready to contribute to a major league team next spring.
Swihart is not in a position to push Leon out, as mentioned, and frankly, I'm not sure he's in a position to even push someone like Holt out. As much as the narrative that he could become versatile has seemingly transformed into his actually being versatile somehow, he's not, in fact, versatile - he played some LF last year because they had a hole there they needed filled, and he played some 1B this year because his ankle wouldn't let him catch enough to get regular at-bats. And it doesn't seem like they're hoping he'll work on his versatility this offseason either.
I'll be frank - I find it very hard to see Swihart in the organization come opening day unless there are injuries.
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Post by Coreno on Oct 5, 2017 9:30:58 GMT -5
Is it possible him being so screwed up right now is actually a good thing? If he doesn't look like a major league catcher by the end of spring training, would a team even bother claiming him? If nobody thinks he's good enough to carry on their roster, he might be able to make it through waivers, which would give him one more year to try and STAY HEALTHY and focus on catching in Pawtucket.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 9, 2017 1:35:35 GMT -5
Read the link. He talks about how his ankle issues threw his swing out of whack, then when he got healthy he had to completely re-learn his swing. He doesn't sound like a guy who'll be ready to contribute to a major league team next spring. Swihart is not in a position to push Leon out, as mentioned, and frankly, I'm not sure he's in a position to even push someone like Holt out. As much as the narrative that he could become versatile has seemingly transformed into his actually being versatile somehow, he's not, in fact, versatile - he played some LF last year because they had a hole there they needed filled, and he played some 1B this year because his ankle wouldn't let him catch enough to get regular at-bats. And it doesn't seem like they're hoping he'll work on his versatility this offseason either. I'll be frank - I find it very hard to see Swihart in the organization come opening day unless there are injuries. My argument was that, rather than give Swihart away for nothing, they should keep him as a 3rd catcher. He'd catch one starter, and in the second half of blowouts, and spend a ton of time catching in the bullpen, taking BP, etc.. Let's assume he's replacement level while starting 30 games behind the plate instead of Leon. That's 0.4 wins over a full season. You then have to add the cost of subtracting the guy whose roster spot he's taking, but it's unclear who that would be -- you still have room for Holt and a RH OF/1B some sort, and as I pointed out upthread, that roster spot was filled with essentially unused players for a good chunk of the start of the season. Carrying him as a 3rd catcher into July in an effort to create some trade value is probably a coin toss as to whether it costs you a win. You come out quite a bit ahead if he makes any kind of comeback. In the meantime, you won't be able to sneak him through waivers unless he looks inadequate as even the backup catcher on a bad club. If he looks like he can be replacement level to start the season, he'll be claimed by a bad club with a fungible backup catcher, which is most of them. Backup catchers on bad ballclubs are not a commodity you'd keep over taking a shot at a guy who, just a few years ago, projected to be Buster Posey Light.
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Post by soxfando on Oct 9, 2017 23:17:43 GMT -5
Swihart looked pretty awful defensively behind the plate (looking uncomfortable with footwork, framing pitches, etc.). I don't think he plays as a regular catcher. It's too bad, because he showed a lot of promise before Farrell stuck him in left field.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 9, 2017 23:36:40 GMT -5
Hate to say it, but I think Swihart's days with the Red Sox are numbered.
One of the most impressive things about the Red Sox this season was that other teams could not run on the Red Sox at all. Both Vazquez and Leon were throwing runners out to the point I felt it totally negated any speed advantage another team might have had on the Red Sox.
Unfortunately it was the year of the HR and just about everybody had that advantage on the Red Sox.
So with Vazquez and Leon around and the likelihood that Vazquez actually can hit a bit, Swihart doesn't really 1) have a catching gig available to him, and 2) has yet to prove that he can really be a passable catcher.
I doubt that the Red Sox want Swihart to be just a backup catcher who can't really catch, and he hasn't show enough bat to play elsewhere at this point.
He's probably going to wind up with another organization that can give him development time, so I think he'll wind up with a 2nd division ballclub for peanuts.
It's too bad. I used to think he was going to be an all-star catcher. At this point I think Vazquez has won and will continue to have every opportunity to show that he is Yadier Molina Jr.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 10, 2017 15:01:52 GMT -5
Read the link. He talks about how his ankle issues threw his swing out of whack, then when he got healthy he had to completely re-learn his swing. He doesn't sound like a guy who'll be ready to contribute to a major league team next spring. Swihart is not in a position to push Leon out, as mentioned, and frankly, I'm not sure he's in a position to even push someone like Holt out. As much as the narrative that he could become versatile has seemingly transformed into his actually being versatile somehow, he's not, in fact, versatile - he played some LF last year because they had a hole there they needed filled, and he played some 1B this year because his ankle wouldn't let him catch enough to get regular at-bats. And it doesn't seem like they're hoping he'll work on his versatility this offseason either. I'll be frank - I find it very hard to see Swihart in the organization come opening day unless there are injuries. My argument was that, rather than give Swihart away for nothing, they should keep him as a 3rd catcher. He'd catch one starter, and in the second half of blowouts, and spend a ton of time catching in the bullpen, taking BP, etc.. Let's assume he's replacement level while starting 30 games behind the plate instead of Leon. That's 0.4 wins over a full season. You then have to add the cost of subtracting the guy whose roster spot he's taking, but it's unclear who that would be -- you still have room for Holt and a RH OF/1B some sort, and as I pointed out upthread, that roster spot was filled with essentially unused players for a good chunk of the start of the season. Carrying him as a 3rd catcher into July in an effort to create some trade value is probably a coin toss as to whether it costs you a win. You come out quite a bit ahead if he makes any kind of comeback. In the meantime, you won't be able to sneak him through waivers unless he looks inadequate as even the backup catcher on a bad club. If he looks like he can be replacement level to start the season, he'll be claimed by a bad club with a fungible backup catcher, which is most of them. Backup catchers on bad ballclubs are not a commodity you'd keep over taking a shot at a guy who, just a few years ago, projected to be Buster Posey Light. I was responding to pedrofan's post that talked about him being a "versatile weapon" off the bench. I didn't quote the post but probably should have. As for the points you make here, I don't see how he can generate trade value playing every 5th game. You make a good point that the roster spot he'd take was essentially a nothing spot for this team for most of the year, but that's probably because of how many injuries the club suffered. When Sandoval, Holt, Hernandez, and Rutledge are all hurt (they may or may not all have been hurt at the same time, but if not, three of them were), you're going to run low on major league infield options, for example. On a healthy club, you are far more likely to need that roster spot. I do agree there's no way he clears waivers. Not with the state of MLB catching. I also just think that fundamentally, they're not going to spend a bench spot on a third catcher. But maybe they'll surprise me. I'd love it if they made him into an Austin Barnes-type, but I think the ship's sailed on that now that he's out of options. EDIT: Just found your post. So only Rutledge was hurt to start the year, but they kept Selsky essentially because they didn't have a 1B backup with Hanley hurt, but then they didn't trust him at all. It was just bad roster management. Moreland had to play every game as a result, which in part necessitated the Travis call-up in May. On the other hand, they were also partly afraid of losing him on waivers after a good spring... which could be Swihart this year. So who knows?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 16, 2017 15:36:00 GMT -5
Is it possible him being so screwed up right now is actually a good thing? If he doesn't look like a major league catcher by the end of spring training, would a team even bother claiming him? If nobody thinks he's good enough to carry on their roster, he might be able to make it through waivers, which would give him one more year to try and STAY HEALTHY and focus on catching in Pawtucket. I doubt it. As broken as Swihart looks right now, the scarcity of good catchers means that most rebuilding clubs are mostly going to be eager to try to fix him. Maybe I'm crazy but I feel like the Sox should offer him an extension that gives him maybe $5m in guaranteed money, with the understanding that he has to go back to the minors to prove himself as a catcher. Teams don't really do stuff like that, but maybe it's time to start. Can't spend that money on amateurs anymore, can't find that kind up upside in free agency. Might as well spend it to capture the talent in your own organization.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 16, 2017 16:09:36 GMT -5
Is it possible him being so screwed up right now is actually a good thing? If he doesn't look like a major league catcher by the end of spring training, would a team even bother claiming him? If nobody thinks he's good enough to carry on their roster, he might be able to make it through waivers, which would give him one more year to try and STAY HEALTHY and focus on catching in Pawtucket. I doubt it. As broken as Swihart looks right now, the scarcity of good catchers means that most rebuilding clubs are mostly going to be eager to try to fix him. Maybe I'm crazy but I feel like the Sox should offer him an extension that gives him maybe $5m in guaranteed money, with the understanding that he has to go back to the minors to prove himself as a catcher. Teams don't really do stuff like that, but maybe it's time to start. Can't spend that money on amateurs anymore, can't find that kind up upside in free agency. Might as well spend it to capture the talent in your own organization. The issue is that he won't clear waivers, not his permission. They can still outright him once without his permission. That's why teams don't do stuff like that - that isn't how the rules work.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 16, 2017 19:27:11 GMT -5
I doubt it. As broken as Swihart looks right now, the scarcity of good catchers means that most rebuilding clubs are mostly going to be eager to try to fix him. Maybe I'm crazy but I feel like the Sox should offer him an extension that gives him maybe $5m in guaranteed money, with the understanding that he has to go back to the minors to prove himself as a catcher. Teams don't really do stuff like that, but maybe it's time to start. Can't spend that money on amateurs anymore, can't find that kind up upside in free agency. Might as well spend it to capture the talent in your own organization. The issue is that he won't clear waivers, not his permission. They can still outright him once without his permission. That's why teams don't do stuff like that - that isn't how the rules work. I think he meant that he might not clear waivers if he had $5 million guaranteed. It would be like doing the Castillo contract again on purpose so he wouldn't count against the cap or be on the 40 man. I'm not sure what the right number would be to keep him safe. It's not a bad idea.
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Post by GyIantosca on Oct 17, 2017 6:19:03 GMT -5
Swihart really gets me excited . If he comes along what a bench option imagine a third catcher who can hit and learn another position. What a weapon. I laugh at just throwing this guy away like he expired. Varitech took a step back in Seattle regarding his bonus money I think it affected his signingand developing. In a way it’s ok for a catcher to take a little longer.
The Sox really need an excellent back up for Petey because there stuck with him and you need to manage him carefully going forward. I would like Nunez back but like I said in another post he is looking to cash in one last time. Too bad the post season he got hurt.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 17, 2017 8:15:35 GMT -5
Until I see a reason to be excited, I’m not going to let myself be.
Swihart’s health and production were substandard this year. His swing has always looked flawed to me from the left side. I think he faces an uphill battle.
I have more hope in Vazquez improving or making his production this year more replicatable.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 17, 2017 9:10:04 GMT -5
The issue is that he won't clear waivers, not his permission. They can still outright him once without his permission. That's why teams don't do stuff like that - that isn't how the rules work. I think he meant that he might not clear waivers if he had $5 million guaranteed. It would be like doing the Castillo contract again on purpose so he wouldn't count against the cap or be on the 40 man. I'm not sure what the right number would be to keep him safe. It's not a bad idea. Hm. It's an interesting thought. Not sure it works in practice. The reason Castillo and Craig cleared waivers is that they were being paid so much that there was no way they were worth what they were being paid. Like unpalatably so. I don't think it's really prudent to just throw money at guys so that you don't lose them on waivers - that's just really not great business. I mean, what can you reasonably expect Swihart to turn into at this point? I get wanting to keep him around, but I think the ship has probably sailed on the perennial all-star version of him.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 17, 2017 9:17:32 GMT -5
The issue is that he won't clear waivers, not his permission. They can still outright him once without his permission. That's why teams don't do stuff like that - that isn't how the rules work. I think he meant that he might not clear waivers if he had $5 million guaranteed. It would be like doing the Castillo contract again on purpose so he wouldn't count against the cap or be on the 40 man. I'm not sure what the right number would be to keep him safe. It's not a bad idea. No, I honestly just thought that if a player accepts a minor league assignment he doesn't have to pass through waivers. Or at the very least that you'd be able to put something in his contract to allow for this. Transaction rules are not really a thing I understand, or care to understand for that matter, beyond the broad outlines.
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