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alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 619
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Post by alnipper on Dec 7, 2016 13:08:57 GMT -5
After the Chris Sale trade, I think the Red Sox almost need to trade Clay. I think at the Red Sox are looking for a trade partner I think a team like Miami would be a good partner. Keep in mind almost every team in baseball can use a starting pitcher.
I would trade Clay to a team and eat a portion of his salary. In return I would ask for wanted to million dollars of international pool money.
This would help us restock our very young talent, while helping us stay underneath the salary tax. This would also give us flexibility during the season for minor trades.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 7, 2016 13:17:13 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken the international market is the same this year as last year isn't it? It wouldn't be until next year were you can trade pool money.
I just hope we can get a better return than the Cardinals got for Garcia. I wouldn't mind OF or 3B depth.
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Post by sibbysisti on Dec 7, 2016 23:41:13 GMT -5
With seven starters on this team, someone has to go. E-Rod is young and talented and developing. Pomeranz can be used in relief or as a spot starter. Wright brings a unique skill to the rotation and was outstanding before he lost the battle with second base.
This is a poor offseason for available starting pitching. The best FAs are Hill and Nova and it looks like Hill is returning to LA. Buch should be in demand and DD can take his time and let the market develop.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 8, 2016 0:22:22 GMT -5
With seven starters on this team, someone has to go. E-Rod is young and talented and developing. Pomeranz can be used in relief or as a spot starter. Wright brings a unique skill to the rotation and was outstanding before he lost the battle with second base. This is a poor offseason for available starting pitching. The best FAs are Hill and Nova and it looks like Hill is returning to LA. Buch should be in demand and DD can take his time and let the market develop. You can't wait too long though, if you want a team to pay his full salary. You could wait and pay some salary to get prospects, but then you lose that money we need to stay under luxury tax.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 8, 2016 1:52:39 GMT -5
The Sox have until December 15 I believe to stay under the cbt. I believe final payroll dates for the year are accounted for around this date. Buchholz is gettiing traded to whoever within the next week at the latest imo.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 8, 2016 1:59:09 GMT -5
The Sox have until December 15 I believe to stay under the cbt. I believe final payroll dates for the year are accounted for around this date. Buchholz is gettiing traded to whoever within the next week at the latest imo. I think he'll be a goner, too. The question is what do they get for him. It seems to me they probably won't get a lot. This is probably because the Sox probably won't want to kick in any salary. I would think the more the Sox foot the bill, the better the prospect would be, but the true value the Sox would really want is the getting under the cap limit by as much as possible so they have some wiggle room to add a little more depth and have some room for a July 31st acquisition. The Sox should get an ok prospect, because there should be multiple suitors for Buchholz, but it won't be anything great. I would think they get a AAAA pitcher who can go up and down if there's an injury. The bigger question to me is will the Sox deal a 2nd starter away? E-Rod isn't going anywhere, but it's possible Wright could go or even Pomeranz. I think at this point Pomeranz' value has taken a hit. I'd hate to see the Sox deal Wright. He pitched very well last year and I loved his ability to go deep into games. With Porcello, Price, and Sale around, the bullpen shouldn't have to be overtaxed this season like it was last season. Wright can make it that much better. I don't see E-Rod and Pomeranz as guys who can go routinely deep into games. Still, either Wright or Pomeranz should fetch a good prospect. If they want to hold onto both, I think they're better off starting Wright and moving Pomeranz to the pen.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 8, 2016 2:03:09 GMT -5
I think the Sox will keep all 3 of Eduardo Rodriguez, Wright, and Pomeranz because they fully know that none of these guys has ever started a complete season in the majors before.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 8, 2016 5:01:58 GMT -5
These are the places that makes the most sense to me where the Sox could trade Buchholz imo-
Mariners Astros Rangers Phillies Rockies Cubs Oakland Marlins
All these teams could use another starter.
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Post by jmei on Dec 8, 2016 8:09:31 GMT -5
The Sox have until December 15 I believe to stay under the cbt. I believe final payroll dates for the year are accounted for around this date. Buchholz is gettiing traded to whoever within the next week at the latest imo. This is incorrect. The CBT is calculated after the season using the previous season's actual payroll (prorrated for players who played partial seasons, etc.). In December 2016, they'll be calculating the CBT for the 2016 season, not the 2017 season.
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Post by jmei on Dec 8, 2016 8:11:32 GMT -5
My idea: Buchholz to Seattle for Danny Valencia and a minor prospect. Rodriguez, Wright and Pomeranz compete for two rotation spots. If everyone is healthy, one of Wright or Pomeranz goes to the bullpen.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 8, 2016 8:22:49 GMT -5
The Sox have until December 15 I believe to stay under the cbt. I believe final payroll dates for the year are accounted for around this date. Buchholz is gettiing traded to whoever within the next week at the latest imo. This is incorrect. The CBT is calculated after the season using the previous season's actual payroll (prorrated for players who played partial seasons, etc.). In December 2016, they'll be calculating the CBT for the 2016 season, not the 2017 season. Alright, wasn't too sure. Someone on MLB network radio mentioned the December 15th date and I wasn't sure if it had any relevance when it came to picking up options or declining options with buyouts.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 8, 2016 8:25:09 GMT -5
Still Buchholz is the only guy they could aim to trade if the Sox are looking to get under the CBT next year. They have to be over at this point and I like your Valencia idea, I'm not sure if Seattle would move him unless they picked up Trumbo or Chris Carter.
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Post by manfred on Dec 8, 2016 14:11:36 GMT -5
I would look to trade Buch (eating some salary) for 2-3 low-level lottery tickets -- preferably arms. If the concern is the system in a few years, then start the restock now.
Truthfully, I would consider trading Wright, too. I know trading both takes you from starter depth to a risk, but Wright is coming off an all-star season that I don't feel great about him repeating. Trade high, maybe get a AAAA starter and another lottery ticket. The arm gives them a bit of depth back, and, again, it helps replenish the lower minors.
I have my fingers crossed that Brian Johnson might be a solid AAAA starter who could give them 5ish ok starts this season if necessary. His stuff looks decent enough if he's healthy.
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Post by m1keyboots on Dec 8, 2016 15:22:54 GMT -5
Packaging Buchholz, Roenis elias, and possibly another redundant AAAA starter like Brian Johnson for a value ML piece (Mayne a LOogy, or real life SS utility player) and a decent prospect.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 8, 2016 15:34:31 GMT -5
Packaging Buchholz, Roenis elias, and possibly another redundant AAAA starter like Brian Johnson for a value ML piece (Mayne a LOogy, or real life SS utility player) and a decent prospect. Five pennies don't equal a nickel in baseball trades.
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Post by bosox705 on Dec 9, 2016 10:45:22 GMT -5
Bucholz and JBJ to Astros for George Springer houston needs starting pitching and have Springer playing center field he is athletic but definately a natural RF. We can see with the Adam Eaton trade how important CF defense is, houston gets a veteran pitcher and one if not the best defensive centerfielders. On the red sox side Springer is a stud who can play a good RF, and Betts is a great defensive outfielder who can win a gold glove in centerfield.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 9, 2016 14:55:34 GMT -5
Packaging Buchholz, Roenis elias, and possibly another redundant AAAA starter like Brian Johnson for a value ML piece (Mayne a LOogy, or real life SS utility player) and a decent prospect. Five pennies don't equal a nickel in baseball trades. You always say that, but it's just not true, also it doesn't even apply to his trade idea. So Buchholz is a penny and a lefty specialist or a utility guy are nickels? What? That sure looks looks like a trade that could happen, we might need to pay some of Clays salary but if could for sure happen. For me Johnson is a decent prospect, so including him and getting a decent guy back isn't crazy.
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jodyreidnichols
Veteran
Dustin Pedroia injured
Posts: 1,551
Member is Online
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Dec 9, 2016 16:14:53 GMT -5
I would look to trade Buch (eating some salary) for 2-3 low-level lottery tickets -- preferably arms. If the concern is the system in a few years, then start the restock now. Truthfully, I would consider trading Wright, too. I know trading both takes you from starter depth to a risk, but Wright is coming off an all-star season that I don't feel great about him repeating. Trade high, maybe get a AAAA starter and another lottery ticket. The arm gives them a bit of depth back, and, again, it helps replenish the lower minors. I have my fingers crossed that Brian Johnson might be a solid AAAA starter who could give them 5ish ok starts this season if necessary. His stuff looks decent enough if he's healthy. What evidence do you have to support Wright not repeating? I'd make him the swing man because he'd be the easiest to increase his innings from 2 to 6, and the most likely to make a spot start with little notice. Brian Johnson could be more than that but he needs to re-establish himself.
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Post by larrycook on Dec 9, 2016 22:59:00 GMT -5
I would look to trade Buch (eating some salary) for 2-3 low-level lottery tickets -- preferably arms. If the concern is the system in a few years, then start the restock now. Truthfully, I would consider trading Wright, too. I know trading both takes you from starter depth to a risk, but Wright is coming off an all-star season that I don't feel great about him repeating. Trade high, maybe get a AAAA starter and another lottery ticket. The arm gives them a bit of depth back, and, again, it helps replenish the lower minors. I have my fingers crossed that Brian Johnson might be a solid AAAA starter who could give them 5ish ok starts this season if necessary. His stuff looks decent enough if he's healthy. I saw Johnson pitch several times and I believe in his stuff. In my opinion, he is capable of being a major league starter.
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Post by manfred on Dec 10, 2016 11:56:43 GMT -5
I would look to trade Buch (eating some salary) for 2-3 low-level lottery tickets -- preferably arms. If the concern is the system in a few years, then start the restock now. Truthfully, I would consider trading Wright, too. I know trading both takes you from starter depth to a risk, but Wright is coming off an all-star season that I don't feel great about him repeating. Trade high, maybe get a AAAA starter and another lottery ticket. The arm gives them a bit of depth back, and, again, it helps replenish the lower minors. I have my fingers crossed that Brian Johnson might be a solid AAAA starter who could give them 5ish ok starts this season if necessary. His stuff looks decent enough if he's healthy. What evidence do you have to support Wright not repeating? I'd make him the swing man because he'd be the easiest to increase his innings from 2 to 6, and the most likely to make a spot start with little notice. Brian Johnson could be more than that but he needs to re-establish himself. I don't have evidence. I didn't think he looked as good in the second half, and I don't have faith that knuckleball pitchers pitch at an all star level consistently. I am not slamming him so much as suggesting you trade at his high value. But looking at other knuckleballers like Wake and Dickey, they are apt to go from strong seasons to poor (and back).
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Post by m1keyboots on Dec 10, 2016 17:33:54 GMT -5
Packaging Buchholz, Roenis elias, and possibly another redundant AAAA starter like Brian Johnson for a value ML piece (Mayne a LOogy, or real life SS utility player) and a decent prospect. Five pennies don't equal a nickel in baseball trades. Ah, of course. I didn't mean all in one trade. I meant separately as in Buch, then something like Elias and BJ. Hopefully the return from one of those potential trades would net as I said a Loogy, or maybe ML ready middle infielder that can play short better than Brock.
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Post by m1keyboots on Dec 10, 2016 17:36:14 GMT -5
I would look to trade Buch (eating some salary) for 2-3 low-level lottery tickets -- preferably arms. If the concern is the system in a few years, then start the restock now. Truthfully, I would consider trading Wright, too. I know trading both takes you from starter depth to a risk, but Wright is coming off an all-star season that I don't feel great about him repeating. Trade high, maybe get a AAAA starter and another lottery ticket. The arm gives them a bit of depth back, and, again, it helps replenish the lower minors. I have my fingers crossed that Brian Johnson might be a solid AAAA starter who could give them 5ish ok starts this season if necessary. His stuff looks decent enough if he's healthy. I saw Johnson pitch several times and I believe in his stuff. In my opinion, he is capable of being a major league starter. Did he look any better than Pomeranz? There's a lot of question marks with his mental health history. Although I feel like he has low mileage on his arm i wonder if that would affect his trade potential
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Post by larrycook on Dec 10, 2016 19:39:21 GMT -5
I saw Johnson pitch several times and I believe in his stuff. In my opinion, he is capable of being a major league starter. Did he look any better than Pomeranz? There's a lot of question marks with his mental health history. Although I feel like he has low mileage on his arm i wonder if that would affect his trade potential He needs to refine the secondary pitches and keep the ball down in the strike zone, if he does that, I think he could be a major league starter,
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Post by p23w on Dec 12, 2016 17:05:36 GMT -5
I am not inclined to trade Buchholz. If all is going according to plan in 2017 but a problem or flaw is exposed (other than starting pitching) then, assuming Buchholz has continued his run from the second half of 2016 (and built additional value) that would be the time to leverage his value in a trade.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 12, 2016 19:54:40 GMT -5
I am not inclined to trade Buchholz. If all is going according to plan in 2017 but a problem or flaw is exposed (other than starting pitching) then, assuming Buchholz has continued his run from the second half of 2016 (and built additional value) that would be the time to leverage his value in a trade. What do you do with our other staters? Who's in your top 5? What if Buchholz pitches like first 2/3 of 2016 and not the last 1/3 of season? You also need to look at the money, we need to move his money to give us wiggle room . In season not a ton of teams can take on close to his 13.5 million in salary. In your plan if Buchholz pitches poorly and we can't trade him unless we pay the majority of his salary. We would lose the ability to take on salary mid season. I'd much rather clear his salary now and take the best offer we can get now. Reports are showing that DD is trying to get a good prospect for him right now. So he's not just dumping him and his salary. He wanted the Marlins #5 prospect. If we get anything close to that I will be doing backflips. Buchholz is just far too risky to gamble on.
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