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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 4, 2017 2:53:39 GMT -5
I do wonder if all the talk about Dave Dombrowski not ever having a great farm system will die down at some point. Since Dave has taken over, he and his crew have added the following prospects- Houck Mata Dalbec Groome Cole Brannen Alex Scherrf Daniel Flores Danny Diaz Antoni Flores That's a lot of great prospect talent, all by the Sox organization run by Dave Dombrowski. All of these kids have a great shot at bring real major league players someday. Give him more than 5 minutes to trade half of those guys. I don't think that'll be the case. He doesn't need to rebuild 60 percent of the rotation for a few more years. By then, he may trade some more highly touted prospects if guys like Price and Pomeranz leaves, but by then you'll have more of a sense where things stand in regards to Mata, Houck, and Groome. The worst trade he's made is when he dealt a major league player so far in Travis Shaw ironically. The rest of his moves can be defended to a degree. I could be wrong and this ownership group has told him to sell out the next three years because they want to win before they sell the team soon, but we will have to see on that one.
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Post by ryan24 on Jul 4, 2017 6:19:55 GMT -5
Give him more than 5 minutes to trade half of those guys. I don't think that'll be the case. He doesn't need to rebuild 60 percent of the rotation for a few more years. By then, he may trade some more highly touted prospects if guys like Price and Pomeranz leaves, but by then you'll have more of a sense where things stand in regards to Mata, Houck, and Groome. The worst trade he's made is when he dealt a major league player so far in Travis Shaw ironically. The rest of his moves can be defended to a degree. I could be wrong and this ownership group has told him to sell out the next three years because they want to win before they sell the team soon, but we will have to see on that one. Interesting thought on the owner's. They seem very stable. The financial pages do not have them looking for deals or selling anything per se. But you never know. They seem happy with the club and the town. Dave is very aggressive, but I would not say reckless. He has a plan. He saw we had no pitching and went and got some. He paid a high price. We tend to fall in love with our prospects. And rightly so. But, we probably tend to over value them. We gave up an outfielder, who was not trout, to get a quality power closer, which we did not have. Sale is one of the 2 or3 best in baseball right now. You can not get him for nothing. Did Dave over pay? Maybe ,but would you be in first without Sale. I was sad about Kopech, not moncada as much. Would those two be on the big league roster right now? We loved AE and were sad that Dave traded away a future cy young winner. But, AE has arm problems and has not dominated in low A yet. Drew is a major league pitcher who fits in as a 3,4 or5 guy. Is he a star, no but would you rather have AE trying to hold down his job right now for the sox? the first part of the plan was to get pitching. The second part is to keep filling the holes as they come down the road. A couple of college pitchers and a couple of high school pitchers. Maybe one or two develop and can replace Price, Rick and whoever leaves. brannan maybe replaces Bradley when he leaves. This plan includes managing the salaries by developing players from within and sprinkle the right FA's in to have a chance every year to win it all. Maybe I am overly optimistic, but Dave ,IMO is not a loose cannon and knows the value of players.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 4, 2017 10:38:30 GMT -5
Hopefully DD has learned his lesson w/r/t to overpaying for relievers which really is not even a top priority for the Red Sox in 2017. Maybe pursue someone like Frazier as a stop gap measure for 2017 as long as the cost is not too high.
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Post by ryan24 on Jul 4, 2017 11:35:32 GMT -5
Right now it would not surprise me that Dave stands pat. Devin and lin are contributing. They have a ton of relief between dl and AAA. Devers could be ready early august. Tampa, Baltimore and Toronto I do not see as much of a threat. 2nd best record, 3rd best pitching, 4th best runs scored all add up to great possibilities. Bullpen looks good and they have an ace for the playoffs, so unless someone falls into their laps ,do not see any big changes with prospects or big salary moving. IMHO.
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Post by braziliansox on Jul 4, 2017 18:26:14 GMT -5
Right now it would not surprise me that Dave stands pat. Devin and lin are contributing. They have a ton of relief between dl and AAA. Devers could be ready early august. Tampa, Baltimore and Toronto I do not see as much of a threat. 2nd best record, 3rd best pitching, 4th best runs scored all add up to great possibilities. Bullpen looks good and they have an ace for the playoffs, so unless someone falls into their laps ,do not see any big changes with prospects or big salary moving. IMHO. I'd honestly be pretty surprised if he stood pat. I remember the 2014 deadline where the Tigers were considered one of the best rotations in the league and he still felt the need to upgrade from Smyly to Price right after the A's acquired Lester. At some point the Yankees will get someone and he'll feel the need to answer.
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Post by ryan24 on Jul 4, 2017 18:33:27 GMT -5
Right now it would not surprise me that Dave stands pat. Devin and lin are contributing. They have a ton of relief between dl and AAA. Devers could be ready early august. Tampa, Baltimore and Toronto I do not see as much of a threat. 2nd best record, 3rd best pitching, 4th best runs scored all add up to great possibilities. Bullpen looks good and they have an ace for the playoffs, so unless someone falls into their laps ,do not see any big changes with prospects or big salary moving. IMHO. I'd honestly be pretty surprised if he stood pat. I remember the 2014 deadline where the Tigers were considered one of the best rotations in the league and he still felt the need to upgrade from Smyly to Price right after the A's acquired Lester. At some point the Yankees will get someone and he'll feel the need to answer. That was the pizza guy, this is John Henry. I think the yanks will make a move BUT they are still talking the cap. The yanks are more than one guy away.
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Post by juanpena on Jul 4, 2017 21:01:58 GMT -5
Dombrowski was smart enough to hold on to Benintendi.
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giltg
Veteran
When the eagle is silent , the parrots begin to jabber.
Posts: 274
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Post by giltg on Feb 13, 2018 15:24:26 GMT -5
I think Dombrowski has done a good job considering he got handed some bad contracts like Pablo Sandoval Hanley Ramirez and Rusney Castillo to name a few. Then he had to go out and dismantle a top tree farm system to get a number one starter and a top-flight closer. And now he's waiting the market out to see if he can get JDM for the price that he wants and maybe get a few bargains at reliever or veteran depth that he could stash at Pawtucket. The 2017 off-season hasn't begun yet and spring training started this morning. IMO every move he's made has been to make the major league roster better. DD has refused to trade players from the major league roster since taking office with the Red Sox.The retirement of Big Papi has really hurt this team and with last year's team not hitting for power he may be forced to over pay for We'll have to wait and see.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 13, 2018 16:32:05 GMT -5
oh god, not this thread again
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giltg
Veteran
When the eagle is silent , the parrots begin to jabber.
Posts: 274
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Post by giltg on Feb 13, 2018 17:20:43 GMT -5
oh god, not this thread again Yep. Last night there was a good discussion in the JDM mega thread on what kind of job Dave Dombrowski had done so far this offseason. I guess you feel about this thread like I do about the Boras thread. I was going to start a new thread Dombrowski vs Boras vs JDM but it kind of sounded like an old Japanese monster movie King Kong vs. Godzilla vs. Megalon.
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Post by DesignatedKyle on Feb 13, 2018 17:38:22 GMT -5
The title just makes me imagine Dombrowski running through the streets of Pamplona, Spain, being chased by the players
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 13, 2018 17:39:39 GMT -5
oh god, not this thread again Yup, when the Sox fail to sign JDM, we can now have two threads to celebrate Dombrowski's resolve or criticize his inability to make a deal that would best help the Red Sox. Woohoo!!
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Post by telson13 on Feb 14, 2018 22:27:01 GMT -5
oh god, not this thread again Yep. Last night there was a good discussion in the JDM mega thread on what kind of job Dave Dombrowski had done so far this offseason. I guess you feel about this thread like I do about the Boras thread. I was going to start a new thread Dombrowski vs Boras vs JDM but it kind of sounded like an old Japanese monster movie King Kong vs. Godzilla vs. Megalon. Creature Double Feature on WLVI TV56. Don’t forget Gamera (A giant turtle with rocket feet? I’m on board that train), Rodan, and the Sludge Monster.
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giltg
Veteran
When the eagle is silent , the parrots begin to jabber.
Posts: 274
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Post by giltg on Feb 14, 2018 23:04:06 GMT -5
I am definitely going to posting hell for this. All 3 on 1 monster.
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Post by dealindave on May 7, 2018 9:12:55 GMT -5
The ownership had to pick up the one and only Dave Tradeowski. Look what he did to Detroit, look where we are gonna be in 2023.
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Post by Oregon Norm on May 7, 2018 9:56:46 GMT -5
This is silly stuff. If you think you understand how the team will look in 2023 - a team with stacks of cash and one of the best young lineups in baseball - please, lay it out. I can't tell what's going to happen tomorrow, let alone 5 years from now. There's an endless number of possible extensions, of signings, of draft choices between here and then. Do they need to restock? Absolutely. Are they dead in the water? Hardly.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 7, 2018 10:06:27 GMT -5
This is silly stuff. If you think you understand how the team will look in 2023 - a team with stacks of cash and one of the best young lineups in baseball - please, lay it out. I can't tell what's going to happen tomorrow, let alone 5 years from now. There's an endless number of possible extensions, of signings, of draft choices between here and then. Do they need to restock? Absolutely. Are they dead in the water? Hardly. No one currently on the roster will be young in baseball terms by 2023.
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Post by Oregon Norm on May 7, 2018 10:57:55 GMT -5
Right - though Devers might disagree with us - and the likelyhood that they're all on the roster is remote. But someone will be on that roster and in five years time it might even include a few faces from a rebuilding farm system. My point is that it's hard to see that far into the baseball future.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 7, 2018 11:38:34 GMT -5
Right - though Devers might disagree with us - and the likelyhood that they're all on the roster is remote. But someone will be on that roster and in five years time it might even include a few faces from a rebuilding farm system. My point is that it's hard to see that far into the baseball future. Sure, anything could happen, but nothing that is actually happening suggests that the Red Sox will have "one of the best young lineups in baseball" five seasons from now. The farm system isn't "rebuilding", it's just bad. It's a bad farm system, one that seems to be getting worse all the time, and it's unlikely to produce a great young lineup in the near or long term.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 7, 2018 11:58:34 GMT -5
Right - though Devers might disagree with us - and the likelyhood that they're all on the roster is remote. But someone will be on that roster and in five years time it might even include a few faces from a rebuilding farm system. My point is that it's hard to see that far into the baseball future. Sure, anything could happen, but nothing that is actually happening suggests that the Red Sox will have "one of the best young lineups in baseball" five seasons from now. The farm system isn't "rebuilding", it's just bad. It's a bad farm system, one that seems to be getting worse all the time, and it's unlikely to produce a great young lineup in the near or long term. Yeap, which makes the next 2 or 3 seasons even more important to win. Which is why I wouldn't be prioritizing prospects other than assets to trade at the moment. If the Sox come out of the next 2 or 3 years without a championship, the Dave Dombrowski era will be a fail. Just no other way to put that.
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Post by stevedillard on May 7, 2018 12:13:28 GMT -5
With this thread bumped, this was the top post on the last page, from July 2017. I’m not sure it holds up well after 10 months. I do wonder if all the talk about Dave Dombrowski not ever having a great farm system will die down at some point. Since Dave has taken over, he and his crew have added the following prospects- Houck Mata Dalbec Groome Cole Brannen Alex Scherrf Daniel Flores Danny Diaz Antoni Flores That's a lot of great prospect talent, all by the Sox organization run by Dave Dombrowski. All of these kids have a great shot at bring real major league players someday.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 7, 2018 12:21:46 GMT -5
With this thread bumped, this was the top post on the last page, from July 2017. I’m not sure it holds up well after 10 months. I do wonder if all the talk about Dave Dombrowski not ever having a great farm system will die down at some point. Since Dave has taken over, he and his crew have added the following prospects- Houck Mata Dalbec Groome Cole Brannen Alex Scherrf Daniel Flores Danny Diaz Antoni Flores That's a lot of great prospect talent, all by the Sox organization run by Dave Dombrowski. All of these kids have a great shot at bring real major league players someday. Just making a point that Dombrowski can identify good minor league talent as well (per the draft). The system took a major hit however since July of 2017. The death of Flores was one of the worst losses the organization has taken and quite frankly put the upward trend of the newer farm system to dead halt and might have even set it back big-time. The international period of 2017 was basically wrapped around the signing of Flores and his loss has set the Sox back in that international signing period back even yet another year. Remember, since the Moncada singing, the Sox haven't been able to spend much on the international signing period since then. Especially after they got punished by the league for the prospect bundling scandal the league caught them with.
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Post by jimed14 on May 7, 2018 12:33:06 GMT -5
DD could trade every prospect in the absolute most perfect trade and create the best baseball team of all time and still not win the World Series. Once an uber team makes the playoffs, they have at most a 20% chance of winning.
That's why the realistic goal of the GM is to make the playoffs every year, not win the WS every year. This is also why I hate the wild card and extra playoff rounds. This is also why I hate "going for it".
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Post by James Dunne on May 7, 2018 12:41:34 GMT -5
Oh no
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 7, 2018 12:48:51 GMT -5
DD could trade every prospect in the absolute most perfect trade and create the best baseball team of all time and still not win the World Series. Once an uber team makes the playoffs, they have at most a 20% chance of winning. That's why the realistic goal of the GM is to make the playoffs every year, not win the WS every year. This is also why I hate the wild card and extra playoff rounds. This is also why I hate "going for it". Fair point Jimed, sorry about dragging out other threads and making it kind of personal with our different philosophies. One of us might be right or wrong, but I think our heads are in the right place for different reasons. The way Dombrowski has run the ballclub, there's only one scenario that the Sox come away with this and still be really good in 2 or 3 years and that's if they come away with steal trades of veteran players (JBJ for prospects for example) and that they come away lucky and hit on mostly every high end prospect they sign (with large bonuses) and draft in the upper parts of the draft. The large reason why I'm so hard headed about this topic is because *I don't want the Sox to screw this title run up.* It would absolutely haunt me if it does happen. I'll say dumb stuff all the time, but as long as the Sox come out ahead, it's fine by me. You're worried about the long term, I'm stuck in the now because of the way the team has been run. Again, two different philosophies but we will see how it unfolds.
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