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Post by thursty on Mar 2, 2017 11:22:40 GMT -5
I wonder if they would consider reversing course and start stretching out Joe Kelly?
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Post by doctorduck21 on Mar 2, 2017 11:23:21 GMT -5
Well this sucks. If Price is out for the season or even part of it, that's alot of innings to try and find. A rotation of Porcello,Sale, Wright, Pom, and Rodriguez should still be pretty good. However 3/5 of that rotation aren't good bets to hold up an entire season. Hopefully we can piece some decent starts together out of Johnson, Owens, and Kendrick at some point if needed. They should be better then when we had to start O'Sullivan last year
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 2, 2017 11:29:51 GMT -5
Well this sucks. If Price is out for the season or even part of it, that's alot of innings to try and find. A rotation of Porcello,Sale, Wright, Pom, and Rodriguez should still be pretty good. However 3/5 of that rotation aren't good bets to hold up an entire season. Hopefully we can piece some decent starts together out of Johnson, Owens, and Kendrick at some point if needed. They should be better then when we had to start O'Sullivan last year ... Why is there reason to think that Johnson, Owens, and Kendrick puts them in significantly better shape than Johnson, Owens, and O'Sullivan?
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 2, 2017 11:32:46 GMT -5
I wonder if they would consider reversing course and start stretching out Joe Kelly? DON'T MAKE THIS WORSE Edit: Ahem. No I'm totally composed.
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Post by dirtdog on Mar 2, 2017 11:33:51 GMT -5
The timing of this baffles me as well. It shows up at the beginning of spring training? Did he not throw after mid October and experience a problem? Meaning we could have been 3 or 4 months down the road with this instead of where we are currently at. Off season personnel moves could have looked different than than they do.
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Post by bluechip on Mar 2, 2017 11:41:44 GMT -5
Buchholz still would be not have been guaranteed a rotation spot at this point. I don't have issues with that trade right now. Do you feel good about Eduardo, Pomeranz, and Wright making it through the season without missing starts? Better than I feel about Buccholz making it through the season. If you wanted seven starters entering camp, (with the last two as injury insurance) Shouldn't your complaint be that they didn't sign Derek Holland or Brett Anderson? Those guy are cheaper than Buchholz and I'd trust them just as much.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 2, 2017 11:44:59 GMT -5
I wonder if they would consider reversing course and start stretching out Joe Kelly? DON'T MAKE THIS WORSE Edit: Ahem. No I'm totally composed. Just by doing that they get an extra year of his service. Even if it was a disaster, I'd take the free year over a couple of weeks usage when we have other relievers like Barnes with options.
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Post by doctorduck21 on Mar 2, 2017 11:57:47 GMT -5
Well this sucks. If Price is out for the season or even part of it, that's alot of innings to try and find. A rotation of Porcello,Sale, Wright, Pom, and Rodriguez should still be pretty good. However 3/5 of that rotation aren't good bets to hold up an entire season. Hopefully we can piece some decent starts together out of Johnson, Owens, and Kendrick at some point if needed. They should be better then when we had to start O'Sullivan last year ... Why is there reason to think that Johnson, Owens, and Kendrick puts them in significantly better shape than Johnson, Owens, and O'Sullivan? Not much outside of hope. I think Johnson will be better this year mainly due to being available. Didn't he miss most of last season? Kendrick could soak up innings in a worst case scenario plus he's better then O'Sullivan even if both are terrible. Owens I don't have much hope for. Maybe Elias can get back to his Seattle level of performance. Idk but one of the big three getting hurt was probably the biggest blow this team could take outside of Mookie
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Post by dirtdog on Mar 2, 2017 12:02:08 GMT -5
Would be nice if this was the year E Rod stayed healthy got it together. So far he has been the left handed version of Buchholtz. Either great or disaster, no happy medium, and physically fragile. Sad because he has top of the rotation ability IMO.
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Post by p23w on Mar 2, 2017 12:06:03 GMT -5
Do you feel good about Eduardo, Pomeranz, and Wright making it through the season without missing starts? Better than I feel about Buccholz making it through the season. If you wanted seven starters entering camp, (with the last two as injury insurance) Shouldn't your complaint be that they didn't sign Derek Holland or Brett Anderson? Those guy are cheaper than Buchholz and I'd trust them just as much. ERod, Pomeranz and Wright have Neve thrown as many innings in one season, as had Buccholz. This is not about "cheap". This is about quality IP from your starters (so as to keep your bullpen from being overworked). Who will throw more innings this year? ERod, Pomeranz, Wright, Buccholz (or Anderson or Holland)? Better you should consider the front office decision to allow Lester to leave and the signing of Price for $30M/ year, if your concern is about payroll.
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Post by doctorduck21 on Mar 2, 2017 12:07:45 GMT -5
DON'T MAKE THIS WORSE Edit: Ahem. No I'm totally composed. Just by doing that they get an extra year of his service. Even if it was a disaster, I'd take the free year over a couple of weeks usage when we have other relievers like Barnes with options. Kelly should stay in relief. He was pretty good once moved there last season after bombing again as a starter. I think he could be a major piece of the bullpen and maybe even solidify himself as the set up man behind Kimbrel. We're trying to win this year not trying to get a free year from someone with 4 years of service time already
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Post by jmei on Mar 2, 2017 12:19:51 GMT -5
The timing of this baffles me as well. It shows up at the beginning of spring training? Did he not throw after mid October and experience a problem? Meaning we could have been 3 or 4 months down the road with this instead of where we are currently at. Off season personnel moves could have looked different than than they do. Pitchers generally don't (and frankly shouldn't) throw at anything close to full effort during the offseason. There's a reason why most TJs are diagnosed during Spring Training.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 2, 2017 12:21:17 GMT -5
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Post by jmei on Mar 2, 2017 12:22:51 GMT -5
It is true that most pitchers, especially veteran pitchers, deal with soreness on a regular basis. If you look at an MRI of any veteran pitcher's UCL, there's probably some damage/fraying. Throwing a ball thousands of times a year as fast as you can for years on end is not what the human elbow was meant to do. That said, there's been an MRI and a first opinion here, which was worrisome enough to be worth seeking a second opinion. That's not a great sign, even if it doesn't result in TJ right away.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 2, 2017 12:25:54 GMT -5
It is true that most pitchers, especially veteran pitchers, deal with soreness on a regular basis. If you look at an MRI of any veteran pitcher's UCL, there's probably some damage/fraying. Throwing a ball thousands of times a year as fast as you can for years on end is not what the human elbow was meant to do. That said, there's been an MRI and a first opinion here, which was worrisome enough to be worth seeking a second opinion. That's not a great sign, even if it doesn't result in TJ right away. Agree 100%, just meant to point out that I shouldn't be ready to jump off a cliff or decide alternatives just yet. Edit on the 100%. Just saw some tweets that indicate the Sox haven't recieved the first opinion yet which more or less coincides with the two docs in the same place statement.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 2, 2017 12:30:21 GMT -5
Makes the Sale trade look worse to me. And the Pomeranz trade a lot worse. Gave up a top pitching prospect for a middle to back end starter with elbow issues, and then didn't even return him when given the opportunity. Correction. Makes the Buccholz trade look stupid. It's all about quality IP. If Price goes down that's 200 IP Farrell needs to account for. Given who is on the roster all signs point to the Buccholz trade as folly. They weren't going to not reset the luxury tax penalty so they could keep a $13.5 million 7th starter.
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 2, 2017 12:33:59 GMT -5
While it would be such a big blow and it sucks when injuries happen with anyone, the Red Sox do have the depth to take that punch really well, don't they? They would have no 6th starter, but at least they have 5 competent ones. It does make the Buchholz trade seem awfully unnecessary in retrospect.
Besides, isn't Keith Couch still a FA? There's at least this still awesome option.
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Post by bluechip on Mar 2, 2017 12:46:10 GMT -5
Better than I feel about Buccholz making it through the season. If you wanted seven starters entering camp, (with the last two as injury insurance) Shouldn't your complaint be that they didn't sign Derek Holland or Brett Anderson? Those guy are cheaper than Buchholz and I'd trust them just as much. ERod, Pomeranz and Wright have Neve thrown as many innings in one season, as had Buccholz. This is not about "cheap". This is about quality IP from your starters (so as to keep your bullpen from being overworked). Who will throw more innings this year? ERod, Pomeranz, Wright, Buccholz (or Anderson or Holland)? Better you should consider the front office decision to allow Lester to leave and the signing of Price for $30M/ year, if your concern is about payroll. Now Lester vs Price, you are talking about different decisions, made years ago. And if we are working with 100 percent knowlesge, the best decision would have been not Lester, or Price, but Max Schezer. Anyway, when the decision to trade Buchholz was made, Price was here and there was no way to acquire Lester (or schezer for that matter). Payroll considerations were a factor with Buchholz. He is unlikely to throw 200 innings (he never has). Yes Buchholz once threw 189.1 innings, but that was in 2012 (and the results that year weren't special). If you want to ask me of the group of Buccholz, Wright, Pomeranz, and ERod who is least likley to provide the value while considering his contract: the answer is Buchholz.
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Post by thursty on Mar 2, 2017 13:07:01 GMT -5
Look at it this way - say Dombrowski had refrained from trading Buchholz when he did and decided to wait out the market until spring training (which would have been prudent).
Is there *anyone* who wants to make the case that you would trade Buchholz for Josh fng Tobias now?
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Post by The Town Sports Cards on Mar 2, 2017 13:10:47 GMT -5
While it would be such a big blow and it sucks when injuries happen with anyone, the Red Sox do have the depth to take that punch really well, don't they? They would have no 6th starter, but at least they have 5 competent ones. It does make the Buchholz trade seem awfully unnecessary in retrospect. Besides, isn't Keith Couch still a FA? There's at least this still awesome option. Keith signed with the Long Island Ducks (but can easily be bought out of that to be our new 5th starter!) liducks.com/news/current/?article_id=1392
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Post by dmaineah on Mar 2, 2017 13:32:42 GMT -5
I don't think the Sox should wait & send Pomeranz & Thornburg to join Price & take advantage of convenience of Andrews and ElAttrache being in same place at same time.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,824
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Post by nomar on Mar 2, 2017 13:39:37 GMT -5
I don't think the Sox should wait & send Pomeranz & Thornburg to join Price & take advantage of convenience of Andrews and ElAttrache being in same place at same time. After all, if they're at higher risk for injury then that makes them injured right at this moment. The world is black and white.
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 2, 2017 14:09:20 GMT -5
Nice to see my man Keith Couch still going on at the sport, thank you for that (:
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Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 2, 2017 14:17:20 GMT -5
...I shouldn't be ready to jump off a cliff ... just yet... I don't think the Sox should wait & send Pomeranz & Thornburg to join Price & take advantage of convenience of Andrews and ElAttrache being in same place at same time. I take it you won't be waiting around before you take that leap.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 2, 2017 14:32:10 GMT -5
...I shouldn't be ready to jump off a cliff ... just yet... I don't think the Sox should wait & send Pomeranz & Thornburg to join Price & take advantage of convenience of Andrews and ElAttrache being in same place at same time. I take it you won't be waiting around before you take that leap. It's all moot now, ERod with two perfect early spring innings. (Sox are rolling big time, we don't need no stinkin' Price)
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