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Post by soxjim on Mar 3, 2017 6:39:23 GMT -5
Makes the Sale trade look worse to me. And the Pomeranz trade a lot worse. I see what you mean. But I think they can still contend without Price, but couldn't without the Sale trade. The Pomeranz trade never did and never will look good. I'm with you. The Sale trade definitely looks much better. As you say - we still can contend. The Red Sox are trying to win a world series. That is most important take-away.
The trade for Buchh was a bad move.
Regarding salary cap, it's called "planning." It's a GM's job to plan. Let's summarize before trading Buchh- what we had for pitching:
1-- Wright season ending shoulder injury. 2-- Pomeranz elbow injury. How man innings can he pitch? 3-- ERod -- how many innings can he pitch?
**The Red Sox chose to have Clay pitch game 3 of the playoffs vs ERod or Pomeranz because he was at least pretty good.
Hopefully no need for TJ. Was hopeful this year Price would have stud-like bounce-back year. Still am hopeful.
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Post by soxjim on Mar 3, 2017 6:46:37 GMT -5
$12.5M for #7 starter? I'm glad you're not managing my money. What a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacks on this board. Trade was the right thing to do. What if you knew the trade was bad from the start. How does that make you a Monday morning QB? It was a dumb trade.In part Buchh was not a #7 starter. And we have 3 huge questions with Wright, Pomz and ERod. The latter two-- how confident are you they can pitch a whole season?
Hopefully Price is okay. I was really pumped this year for a strong Price comeback.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 3, 2017 6:54:18 GMT -5
Buchholz isn't reliable at all and has durability questions himself. There are better options than Buchholz at lesser money.
Honestly, I'd rather see what Johnson, Elias, or Velazquez could bring at this point than to see what "upside" Buchholz MIGHT offer at some point during a season. For 13.5 million, it's a even easier decision to make.
I'd just move on from the Buchholz discussion if I were everyone else. If the Sox can't find a better option than Buchholz in season for cheap, than the Sox deserve to miss the playoffs due to poor management imo, and I say that hoping the Sox ALWAYS make the playoffs every year.
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Post by bluechip on Mar 3, 2017 6:55:10 GMT -5
$12.5M for #7 starter? I'm glad you're not managing my money. What a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacks on this board. Trade was the right thing to do. What if you knew the trade was bad from the start. How does that make you a Monday morning QB? It was a dumb trade.In part Buchh was not a #7 starter. And we have 3 huge questions with Wright, Pomz and ERod. The latter two-- how confident are you they can pitch a whole season?
Hopefully Price is okay. I was really pumped this year for a strong Price comeback.
He was the seventh starter though. You can find a seventh starter cheaper than that. If your complaint is lack of depth in the starting rotation, that's fine. But you don't need to pay 13.5 million to get that depth.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 3, 2017 8:05:50 GMT -5
Why does anyone try to make a case for Buchholz? It shouldn't be that hard to find a guy who will be healthy for 10-15 starts with an ERA of 5. Doug Fister is a free agent if they want another body.
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Post by avonbarksdale on Mar 3, 2017 10:38:11 GMT -5
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Post by bosox81 on Mar 3, 2017 11:11:06 GMT -5
Even if he needs TJS, all they need is to survive the regular season and make the playoffs.
Once they get to the playoffs, I will not be missing Price one bit. I have more confidence in the #5 starter than in Price in the playoffs.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Mar 3, 2017 11:17:03 GMT -5
Well 2 of our 3 # 4 & #5 starters were all stars last season. Can even 1 staff other than the Sox make that claim. I'd bet that no other team can claim an all star even for their #3 starter, maybe even #2. We have 2 competing for spots and the other many believe as the upside of a front of the rotation starter. Everyone Forgets Brian Johnson. Bartolo Colon is set to be the Braves #3 starter and he was an All Star in 2016. So yeah, great way to judge a pitching staff I'd say. Also, everyone forgets Brian Johnson for a reason. I love when people misses the larger point at hand and pick at a weaker supporting point and then pretend to drop the mic. Is being an all star the end all be all, well of course not. However when it's used to make a quick point about the actual quality of the year said player had as opposed to merely someone from that team had to make the team so pointing out someone as an all star status is null and void is well a null and void point when you simply are not aware of the difference. And when you are not maybe one should not dip their toe in the lake. If you disagree then compare the first half of Pomeranz or Wright had with Colon and your point becomes moot. What exactly is the reason to forget about the depth the Sox have and using Johnson (Owens, Elias, Kendrick), as an example, because the anxiety issues he had in 2016? Is that the reason? Never mind that we had 6 above average starters vying for 5 spots. Never mind that we have no definitive answer with Price either.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Mar 3, 2017 11:25:46 GMT -5
I'm not worried about this until we know exactly what's wrong with him. Obviously losing him would be a huge blow to the rotation, but it's not like we have no one to fill in the gaps. The Sox may not have great depth for Starters but a 3/4/5 of Wright/Rodriguez/Pomeranz isn't a disaster. They all have question marks but they also have plenty of upside. it's not like Price is the end all be all of this team. They way I see it, if Price were to miss the season, Sale basically replaces him and this team is still built to make a strong post season run. One of my biggest pet peeves with other fans of baseball is they infer that question marks are a bad thing. Questions marks are neither a good thing nor a bad thing they are merely neutral, a question mark is neither nor until it is answered and therefore cannot be viewed as a negative, it is a question with judgement on hold until further notice. With out exception every season every club has questions, but fans only view it through their own teams viewpoint and therefore look at these question marks as a negative, and that clearly is not right. I agree that should Price miss the year that the Sox are still a strong post-season contender.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 3, 2017 11:34:42 GMT -5
I'm not worried about this until we know exactly what's wrong with him. Obviously losing him would be a huge blow to the rotation, but it's not like we have no one to fill in the gaps. The Sox may not have great depth for Starters but a 3/4/5 of Wright/Rodriguez/Pomeranz isn't a disaster. They all have question marks but they also have plenty of upside. it's not like Price is the end all be all of this team. They way I see it, if Price were to miss the season, Sale basically replaces him and this team is still built to make a strong post season run. One of my biggest pet peeves with other fans of baseball is they infer that question marks are a bad thing. Questions marks are neither a good thing nor a bad thing they are merely neutral, a question mark is neither nor until it is answered and therefore cannot be viewed as a negative, it is a question with judgement on hold until further notice. With out exception every season every club has questions, but fans only view it through their own teams viewpoint and therefore look at these question marks as a negative, and that clearly is not right. I agree that should Price miss the year that the Sox are still a strong post-season contender. Yeah but you're looking at all the question marks as positives. I mean, when you're talking about what great depth Brian Johnson is...
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Post by m1keyboots on Mar 3, 2017 11:44:58 GMT -5
I think just on Price alone, we were a dynamite team when he was going 8 innings and giving up 3.
Assuming we were all hoping for a more ace like year, and now just hope he's ok...it looks a tad grim with sale and porcello replacing 2016 Price/Porcello IMO
It really didn't seem weird having Price and Porcello going at least 7 every night and pushing 110 pitches down the stretch. That's what they're paid to do, hopefully this doesn't backfire on Farrell/Dave. I really think they're trying to win the way they know how.
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 3, 2017 12:04:41 GMT -5
One of the other things (potentially) losing Price would do is really makes the team more reliant on Porcello sustaining his 2016 improvements. I say this as someone who has always been a huge believer in Porcello and remain on the bullish side on him: he's a pitcher who entered 2016 with a 96 career ERA+ and posted a 145 last year. If he's in the 115-130 ERA+ area they're probably fine, but if he regresses to being more like a mid-rotation type then it's not just the rotation depth that's in question - it's the overall quality.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Mar 3, 2017 12:08:49 GMT -5
Disappointing news regarding David Price. Have a feeling it's going to be one of those injury plagued type of seasons. The lineup was pretty healthy last year. I hope that Pedroia and Hanley can stay healthy this season. The only way this works out with Price is if it's a minor injury, he gets a couple of months off and he comes back fresh and with his innings well below his norm come October. I think the heavy workload he usually carries with him is as much a reason for his October struggles as anything else. Perhaps a lower amount of innings pitched come October keeps him fresh. Of course that's the silver lining. My guess is - and that's all we can do right now is guess - is that he will need TJ surgery now or pretty soon. We watched John Lackey try to valiantly pitch through the pain in 2011 and that was a train wreck. I'm hoping we don't get that from Price or else two seasons will be wasted. It stinks that when the team didn't really try to replace Ortiz's bat the best they could (for the same reason they didn't hang onto Buchholz - to stay under the cap for a season so they can splurge in the future - a reasonable gamble to take), they were staking their season on having the best top 3 in the majors. Now Price is likely injured for a good chunk of the season if not more, Porcello will most likely regress, and now they have to hope that Pomeranz is either healthy or effective, two things he really wasn't with the Red Sox last year - and his all-star appearance doesn't change that. They also have injury question marks with how strong Wright's shoulder will be and if E-Rod will have any further knee issues. At this point Kyle Kendrick could be a crucial piece of depth as it looks pretty obvious that Owens will contribute nothing and Johnson probably won't be much better. Elias can't be relied on. The intriguing x-factor is Hector Velazquez. The Sox can survive and perhaps even thrive for a few months without Price, but if he is injured/ineffective, that has a ripple effect on the bullpen as well as Price was great for soaking up innings. Fortunately Porcello and Sale should be able to eat up innings, but that means more of Heath Hembree and Matt Barnes I guess. Pomeranz first start aside for the Sox (he did not pitch for 13 days, some will insist that is cherry picking I beg to differ and call it common sense) his game log is 6IP-2ER, 5.1IP- 5ER, 6IP-2ER, 5.1IP-1ER, 7.2IP-2ER, 5IP-1ER, 6IP-2ER, 6.2IP-3ER, 5.2IP-2ER (Sept.5) and after that he wore down. 10 straight starts with the team with only 1 bad start. For that 10 game stretch his ERA was 3.41 while with the Red Sox. His sOPS+ by month was 80, 30,75, 86 (3 of 5 starts with Sox) ,82,143. What is the outlier here? His absurd May (30) and awful Sept (143). What is left is 80,75,86 and 82 with 11 starts with SD and 9 with Boston. It's amazingly consistent no matter where he pitched or when. It appears that people are going out of there way to find fault with him because he was traded for AE. It appears that not only was he all star worthy in the first half in the National League with San Diego 2.47 ERA, 3.15 FIP but for another third of the Season AFTER the All star break he was still good, perhaps even very good with a 3.41 ERA playing in the AL for the first time with brand new catchers and a new city. The question with Drew is not is he capable, that was answered if you paid attention last year, the question for him is after pitching a career high in innings last year how well does he hold up and adapt to 170+IP.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Mar 3, 2017 12:11:01 GMT -5
One of my biggest pet peeves with other fans of baseball is they infer that question marks are a bad thing. Questions marks are neither a good thing nor a bad thing they are merely neutral, a question mark is neither nor until it is answered and therefore cannot be viewed as a negative, it is a question with judgement on hold until further notice. With out exception every season every club has questions, but fans only view it through their own teams viewpoint and therefore look at these question marks as a negative, and that clearly is not right. I agree that should Price miss the year that the Sox are still a strong post-season contender. Yeah but you're looking at all the question marks as positives. I mean, when you're talking about what great depth Brian Johnson is... You again missed the point. Slow your roll and re-read. Questions are not positive nor negative they are questions. I know you know that (or at least should now) but by all means push forward with your agenda
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 3, 2017 12:36:58 GMT -5
Yeah but you're looking at all the question marks as positives. I mean, when you're talking about what great depth Brian Johnson is... You again missed the point. Slow your roll and re-read. Questions are not positive nor negative they are questions. I know you know that (or at least should now) but by all means push forward with your agenda Questions have degrees.. like is Sandy Leon a credible enough offensive player to be a starting catcher? Is not the same type of question as will Hanley stay focused now that Ortiz is retired?
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 3, 2017 14:38:46 GMT -5
Well 2 of our 3 # 4 & #5 starters were all stars last season. Can even 1 staff other than the Sox make that claim. I'd bet that no other team can claim an all star even for their #3 starter, maybe even #2. We have 2 competing for spots and the other many believe as the upside of a front of the rotation starter. Everyone Forgets Brian Johnson. Bartolo Colon is set to be the Braves #3 starter and he was an All Star in 2016. So yeah, great way to judge a pitching staff I'd say. Also, everyone forgets Brian Johnson for a reason. Good thing we have All-Stars Wright and Pomeranz battling for the 5th starter spot.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Mar 3, 2017 14:38:56 GMT -5
To be fair, the reason they traded Buchholz was to clear salary and get under the cap. Maybe if Price goes under the knife, ownership would now be willing to bite the bullet and go over the cap, but no way of knowing that. Which, by the way, the willingness is trade away the bulk of the farm system but refusing to spend over the cap is not a great look. of course, you have proof that keeping your prospects to stay under the cap would be a good look.
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Post by Smittyw on Mar 3, 2017 15:08:35 GMT -5
This sucks. I'd rather wait for a giraffe to give birth.
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Post by ematz1423 on Mar 3, 2017 15:11:07 GMT -5
Price tweeted basically that he is leaving Indy and returning to spring training. On the same tweet he made a little joke about running the 40 time so maybe that is good news that he is making jokes. Fingers crossed.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,824
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Post by nomar on Mar 3, 2017 15:20:05 GMT -5
Unless he's trying to commit media suicide, this is a good sign.
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Post by uokazem on Mar 3, 2017 16:27:53 GMT -5
Been lurking around for years and never posted but I figured everyone would like to see this
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Post by semperfisox on Mar 3, 2017 16:30:52 GMT -5
Thank god..:
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Post by doctorduck21 on Mar 3, 2017 16:33:27 GMT -5
That's good news. Doubt we're out of the woods yet but this was about the best we could hear today. Hopefully he responds well once he's throwing again
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 3, 2017 16:36:54 GMT -5
The results are he doesn't need TJS or plasma platelet treatment (or whatever that is).... rest 7-10 days
Hope all you cliff jumpers had a parachute
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Post by dirtdog on Mar 3, 2017 16:43:49 GMT -5
I am happy that it appears he'll be OK to pitch but I dont see him opting out now. What team is gonna offer him this kind of money with who knows what condition the elbow is really in. Huge money likely tied up going forward. Hopefully he has 3 or 4 strong years going forward.
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