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Post by fdrnewdeal on Jun 27, 2020 16:47:34 GMT -5
Didn't want to hijack the Yorke thread any further but I remembered more on the "off field" issues with Groome so I thought it better to post it hear.. If memory serves, Keith Law was pretty angry at the rumors that Groome had attitude issues that would drop him. That being said, he knew what was concerning teams but refused to say what it was. Then, Groome's Dad gets busted selling drugs and, again IIRC, Law came out and either infers or says directly that THIS was the concern that teams had. Not sure if that is exactly what went down but it's how I remember it. The point being, I don't believe there were concerns about his attitude. I remember this being a big part of it, and rumors about some marijuana use, and the whole fact that had issues transitioning in a prep High School and returned home instead coupled with questions about his college commitments. Overall, it sounded like he was a kid (he was) who was having a little bit of trouble getting his feet underneath him as he rose in prominence. Something that frankly, I think most teenagers would struggle with. That coupled with the stuff with his dad, and yeah, I think he got a bit of a raw deal. There were also questions about his body size. We put so much pressure on these kids. It's amazing more don't flame out. Nothing written above seems that unusual for a teenager (apart from the stuff with his father, which was out of his control).
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Post by Addam603 on Aug 15, 2020 17:07:22 GMT -5
This is a question that applies to a lot of players around the league, but for us the biggest example is Groome: where do you stick guys next year? Groome was projected to start this year in Salem and with a good year maybe finish in Portland. After spending this (short) year pitching with and against guys mostly at the AAA-AAAA level, do you send him back down to Salem or have him start the year with the Sea Dogs? I guess the question is, what does the alternate site ‘count’ as?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 17, 2020 6:37:56 GMT -5
This is a question that applies to a lot of players around the league, but for us the biggest example is Groome: where do you stick guys next year? Groome was projected to start this year in Salem and with a good year maybe finish in Portland. After spending this (short) year pitching with and against guys mostly at the AAA-AAAA level, do you send him back down to Salem or have him start the year with the Sea Dogs? I guess the question is, what does the alternate site ‘count’ as? It's a more complicated decision than even that, considering the landscape of minor league baseball will also be different. It's going to be based on where guys are next spring, I think.
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Post by ortiz34 on Nov 1, 2020 13:37:24 GMT -5
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Post by ramireja on May 29, 2021 11:42:31 GMT -5
I'll admit as a prospect follower, I've begun to move on from any expectation of Groome and then sox stats has to go and post this:
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Post by patford on May 29, 2021 13:33:49 GMT -5
I'll admit as a prospect follower, I've begun to move on from any expectation of Groome and then sox stats has to go and post this: Looks so effortless you would think he has 10mph in the tank.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on May 29, 2021 20:35:47 GMT -5
His motion is odd... he does this little off-balance jig after he lands. But he is massive.... I am still really hopeful he works out. That combination of his weird landing and his size is very, very concerning to me. Hopefully he can get it sorted because the drive and arm action are so effortless. He has two very different landings in this video. Mostly (6 times out of 12) the left foot swings around and crosses the right, which is very strange, and on the first pitch he seems to stumble on the way to crossing over. But in pitches 3, 4, 8 (from batter's POV), 10, and 11, it's fairly normal.
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Post by 1980bornsoxfan on Jul 3, 2021 11:13:43 GMT -5
Long time lurker here, decided to finally post! So I’ve always believed the Sox have something special with Groome. It’s nice to see him pitching regularly and getting in the innings. Each time he takes the mound he looks a bit more confident. Those of you who are number guys and stat heads, where do you see him? What’s next for him, and if he continues to pitch well when would he make it to the Big club? Do you see him as a top of the rotation guy or a mid to back end?
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Post by jaffinator on Jul 3, 2021 12:04:06 GMT -5
Long time lurker here, decided to finally post! So I’ve always believed the Sox have something special with Groome. It’s nice to see him pitching regularly and getting in the innings. Each time he takes the mound he looks a bit more confident. Those of you who are number guys and stat heads, where do you see him? What’s next for him, and if he continues to pitch well when would he make it to the Big club? Do you see him as a top of the rotation guy or a mid to back end? There hasn't been a scouting update posted from the soxprospects guys in some time on him, so I would be fascinated to hear what they have to say. In the whiffs video redsoxstats posted, he was showing what looked like a changeup with fade fairly effectively. With that as a third pitch, the questions become if that can be consistently average or better and if he can back on top of his fastball (velo has not been super from the reports I've seen) and to a much lesser degree his curve (which got less favorable reports from instructs iirc compared to what it had been). I think a fairly reasonable ceiling for him now is a Drew Pomeranz type. This is all hypothetical, but I think his best chance to really strongly exceed that is if he turns his conditioning all the way around to a strong plus and maybe adds 3+ mph of velocity. To be clear, I have no additional information and I'm not really a scout so anything here should be taken with big helping of salt. Also, I would love to see a big scouting update on Groome given the positive direction his season is now going.
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Post by bcsox on Jul 3, 2021 12:19:56 GMT -5
does anyone have any velocity readings on him? I recall, I thought that he was a 94-95 guy, with a knee bucking curveball. what little I have seen since his recent comeback is that he is 90-91-92 and he is more changeup than curveball. is it accurate that he is topping out in low 90's. Does he have more command of his FB. Is he expected to add to his FB with more time away from the injury?
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ericmvan
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Posts: 8,926
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 5, 2021 22:13:43 GMT -5
Groome's numbers in Greenville, like Trot Nixon's in his rookie season, may take forever to recover from his first two starts, when he faced 30 batters, allowed a .500 / .600 / .792 line and grabbed himself an 18.69 ERA.
He allowed a leadoff triple in his 3rd start, retired the next 9 guys (a run scoring immediately on a GB), then ran into crap luck in the 4th: cheap hit, runner reaching on a Howlett error, and then 2 more earned runs when he gave up a bomb. That was a sneak preview of the rest of his season.
He might be in AA already it it weren't for one nagging problem, which seems to me to be inconsistent mechanics pitching from the stretch.
Beginning with his 3rd start:
.200 / .273 / .300 (121 PA), bases empty .213 / .315 / .489 (54 PA), runners on.
An .029 worse IsoD is not good, but it's not that unusual. His Iso being .176 worse is ... not good. And it's all homers. His HR/PA is .017 with the bases empty and .074 with runners on.
In his last, brilliant start he gave up 2 hits, a single and a 2-run homer immediately following. He was 1/2, HR with runners on, so there's no evidence of progress yet.
Paradoxically, he's getting fewer chances than ordinary to fix this, because he's pitching with the bases empty so often.
Fix this, and he could be in AAA before the end of the year.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 6, 2021 9:23:53 GMT -5
Long time lurker here, decided to finally post! So I’ve always believed the Sox have something special with Groome. It’s nice to see him pitching regularly and getting in the innings. Each time he takes the mound he looks a bit more confident. Those of you who are number guys and stat heads, where do you see him? What’s next for him, and if he continues to pitch well when would he make it to the Big club? Do you see him as a top of the rotation guy or a mid to back end? There hasn't been a scouting update posted from the soxprospects guys in some time on him, so I would be fascinated to hear what they have to say. In the whiffs video redsoxstats posted, he was showing what looked like a changeup with fade fairly effectively. With that as a third pitch, the questions become if that can be consistently average or better and if he can back on top of his fastball (velo has not been super from the reports I've seen) and to a much lesser degree his curve (which got less favorable reports from instructs iirc compared to what it had been). I think a fairly reasonable ceiling for him now is a Drew Pomeranz type. This is all hypothetical, but I think his best chance to really strongly exceed that is if he turns his conditioning all the way around to a strong plus and maybe adds 3+ mph of velocity. To be clear, I have no additional information and I'm not really a scout so anything here should be taken with big helping of salt. Also, I would love to see a big scouting update on Groome given the positive direction his season is now going. Just to file under "teach a man to fish...", if you check our scouting log at www.soxprospects.com/scouting.htm , you'll see we updated his scouting report in January. That'll be one we update soon though. Got some good stuff on his velocity and pitch usage that Ian dropped on the pod we recorded last night that we'll work in there.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 6, 2021 11:05:49 GMT -5
Long time lurker here, decided to finally post! So I’ve always believed the Sox have something special with Groome. It’s nice to see him pitching regularly and getting in the innings. Each time he takes the mound he looks a bit more confident. Those of you who are number guys and stat heads, where do you see him? What’s next for him, and if he continues to pitch well when would he make it to the Big club? Do you see him as a top of the rotation guy or a mid to back end? I wonder if he’d help in the pen. Try to get something positive out of an asset. Instead of hoping on a dream. IE. He makes rotation
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Post by bcsox on Jul 6, 2021 11:22:46 GMT -5
Great analysis Eric: Do you find that young pitchers may have a more difficult time pitching out of the stretch than from a full windup? It seems that Groome is getting hit hard with runners on base, so is it that he loses more control inside the strike zone, than being wild or losing velocity out of the stretch?
Out of curiosity, does he have a plus pickoff move? Anyone seen anything?
Going forward with him, do you think he is a trade candidate at the deadline? Has he shown enough to other teams? Is the headliner of a decent deal or a second piece. Say you are trading for someone like kimbrel, can he be the number one guy in a deal. Say Groome and Howlett? Groome and Murphy?
If the season ended today, I assume he gets added to the 40 man. If he wasnt, you think he has shown enough to have someone draft him in the Rule 5?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 6, 2021 15:43:07 GMT -5
Groome is already on the 40-man. He was added last offseason.
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Post by huskies15 on Jul 7, 2021 9:00:48 GMT -5
Definitely recommend listening to Ian and Chris talk about Groome on the latest pod! The changeup usage is a pretty big deal. It's cool to hear about him working to improve after a tough few years.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 7, 2021 23:57:12 GMT -5
Groome today with men on was 1/3, SO, the hit being GB single. Definitely an improvement, but he was 0/14, 8 SO, 2 BB with bases empty, so the OPS split is .667 vs. 125. He's been fairly unhittable with bases empty his last 2 starts.
And you have to laugh at the thought of fans of other teams seeing 0-6 with a 5.16 ERA and gloating at how he's a bust.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 8, 2021 16:51:27 GMT -5
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 8, 2021 19:02:51 GMT -5
Looks like the command is really coming around. A lot of stuff on the black. Love those high swinging strikes also.
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cdj
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Posts: 14,029
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Post by cdj on Jul 8, 2021 23:09:57 GMT -5
He really does remind me a lot of Pomeranz
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Post by 1980bornsoxfan on Jul 9, 2021 9:53:55 GMT -5
So now what’s the next step for him? Post all-star move to Portland maybe? If so, is it possible that we might see him end season at AAA? Possibly just wishful thinking as he really has not pitched in 2 years and my guess is they (Sox) want to keep the positive growth moving forward. Will they limit his innings in any way? Just Pumped to see another farm system pitcher that may well help us sooner than later.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 9, 2021 9:58:22 GMT -5
So now what’s the next step for him? Post all-star move to Portland maybe? If so, is it possible that we might see him end season at AAA? Possibly just wishful thinking as he really has not pitched in 2 years and my guess is they (Sox) want to keep the positive growth moving forward. Will they limit his innings in any way? Just Pumped to see another farm system pitcher that may well help us sooner than later. I could definitely see a bump to Portland sometime this month, but as someone pointed out (Ian, I think) he's close the most innings he's ever pitched. I would think they would be somewhat cautious with him since has the injury history. There's absolutely no reason for him to finish the year in Worcester.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 9, 2021 10:02:12 GMT -5
I'd be stunned if he got to Worcester this year and wouldn't see the point.
He'll go up to Portland at some point if he keeps this up, but I wouldn't rush him. 8/1 the earliest would be my target to watch for a Groome promotion if he keeps this up.
His wife is also due this month with their first child, so it would probably make sense to hold off on any promotion until after that as well.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 9, 2021 16:17:24 GMT -5
He really does remind me a lot of Pomeranz Hopefully the early 2016 version.
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Post by Ryanod1 on Jul 9, 2021 16:58:57 GMT -5
I think my favorite part of this video is seeing mostly K's on fastballs. If he can get that back the future is brighter.
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