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Post by soxin8 on May 15, 2019 16:34:58 GMT -5
During the prospect rating season, other sites offered 3 or 4 different names on who the number one prospect was in the Sox system. Right now, it looks like those who stuck with Mr. Chavis after a tough year were right (including this site). I'm glad DDo stuck to the belief that last years bullpen was good enough (when so many commentators said otherwise) and didn't move other prospects for that area.
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Post by telson13 on May 15, 2019 17:25:07 GMT -5
With Nunez back & Holt on the way Chavis should go to the Outfield. An Outfielder is what the team needs most. There are plenty of Middle Infielders in the system for 2B, Nunez, Holt, Lin, Hernandez, Chatham....The team (when healthy & moving forward) needs another Outfielder who can hit, not another 2B 🤣🤣🤣 Omg you never give up.
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Post by dmaineah on May 15, 2019 18:24:53 GMT -5
With Nunez back & Holt on the way Chavis should go to the Outfield. An Outfielder is what the team needs most. There are plenty of Middle Infielders in the system for 2B, Nunez, Holt, Lin, Hernandez, Chatham....The team (when healthy & moving forward) needs another Outfielder who can hit, not another 2B 🤣🤣🤣 Omg you never give up. Why should I when this is the obvious decision that needs to be made. Chavis to LF, Mookie to CF, Benintendi to RF & Nunez at 2B. All the moves make the team better overall. The defense doesn't suffer like most fear & the offense is better. Those who believe otherwise are wrong.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 15, 2019 18:31:37 GMT -5
During the prospect rating season, other sites offered 3 or 4 different names on who the number one prospect was in the Sox system. Right now, it looks like those who stuck with Mr. Chavis after a tough year were right (including this site). I'm glad DDo stuck to the belief that last years bullpen was good enough (when so many commentators said otherwise) and didn't move other prospects for that area. Who wanted to make trades for bullpen help? Almost everyone wanted free agents, which only cost money. Nevermind considering guys like Brewer and Thornburg I wouldn't say those people were wrong either.
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Post by bluechip on May 15, 2019 19:21:42 GMT -5
🤣🤣🤣 Omg you never give up. Why should I when this is the obvious decision that needs to be made. Chavis to LF, Mookie to CF, Benintendi to RF & Nunez at 2B. All the moves make the team better overall. The defense doesn't suffer like most fear & the offense is better. Those who believe otherwise are wrong. Except that Chavis has shown to be a solid second baseman and seems comfortable at the position. He’s hitting now in his first mlb experience. Why mess with the kid and make him go to the outfield?
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Post by dmaineah on May 15, 2019 19:32:52 GMT -5
Why should I when this is the obvious decision that needs to be made. Chavis to LF, Mookie to CF, Benintendi to RF & Nunez at 2B. All the moves make the team better overall. The defense doesn't suffer like most fear & the offense is better. Those who believe otherwise are wrong. Except that Chavis has shown to be a solid second baseman and seems comfortable at the position. He’s hitting now in his first mlb experience. Why mess with the kid and make him go to the outfield? Because that's where the team needs are
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Post by telson13 on May 15, 2019 21:07:00 GMT -5
🤣🤣🤣 Omg you never give up. Why should I when this is the obvious decision that needs to be made. Chavis to LF, Mookie to CF, Benintendi to RF & Nunez at 2B. All the moves make the team better overall. The defense doesn't suffer like most fear & the offense is better. Those who believe otherwise are wrong. It’s not obvious though, and here’s why: 1) They want JDM to stay. That means giving him OF time, in a corner. Benintendi should be getting 150 starts a year, so LF is largely out. And Mookie should get 150 starts a year, possibly some CF, but mostly RF. So COF PT is limited. Chavis has the speed for a corner but not CF. 2) JBJ starts slow essentially every year. But he’s also proven to be a 2-4 WAR player...slightly above-average. He’s streaky, yes. But odds are he ends up providing solid value, producing 1 WAR for every $3-5M, well blow FA market. 3) Jarren Duran is looking like a starting OF. Specifically, a starting CF. Moving Chavis to OF requires he play RF (Beni doesn’t have the arm), and moving Mookie to CF. Now you’ve blocked arguably your best prospect (once Chavis’s eligibility is up, which essentially it is). Moving Duran off CF significantly reduces his value. Moving him back to 2b wastes his speed, and puts him at a fast-burnout position. 4) Not one of Pedroia, Lin, Holt, Nunez, or Marco Hernandez is a good bet for average value at 2b (2 WAR). Nunez is terrible defensively and essentially below-replacement. Pedroia is hurt, and may never be back. Lin is *probably* the best bet there, but there are questions re: his offense. He also has significant value as a backup at SS and 3b, where he’s above-average defensively. Holt has *never* played a full season healthy and his best role is as a utility player. Hernandez is a black box coming back from major injury. Chavis has shown average defensive ability at 2b and WELL above-average offense, meaning he’s likely to provide 3-4 WAR at that position. 5) sitting JBJ by playing Chavis obliterates any trade value he has, with 1.5 years left of control. Also, Chavis has less value as a COF where his offense is less stellar relative to league average. And his fielding skills are unknown. Now, I’m all for iving Chavis *reps* in the OF to increase his positional versatility. That’s a great idea, especially if it allows them to break Pedey back in slowly and see what he has, while still keeping Chavis’s bat in the lineup. But a 130-140 wRC+ hitter who can play average 2b is WAY more valuable (and difficult to replace) than is a COF with the same offensive production. Moving Chavis *permanently* to the OF *right now* is just an awful idea, on so many levels. Maybe in a year and a half, when Duran is breaking in, JDM has just 2 years left, and JBJ is a FA, and Mookie is testing the waters, it would make sense. But at the moment, when they have no long-term 2b solution and a TON of questions? No. Just flat-out, no.
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Post by jl1947 on May 15, 2019 21:09:39 GMT -5
Dimaneah: Besides the fact you may not want to mess with a kid who is becoming comfortable in a position he is regularly playing for the first time and appears to have adequate ability to play and who is doing well, wouldn’t you first want to know if he can play the outfield? Second base does require many fielding skills he already possesses. That is, the angle of the throw is similar third to second as it is second to first base; Both positions require similar skills at charging the ball and to go back on pop-ups; both positions require a quick transfer and throw. The double play turn is dissimilar to third, but at least Chavis has played shortstop in the past and the adjustment on the turn is not something someone with his athleticism should have great difficulty.
I would think Chavis would need some regular reps in the minors to become an outfielder. Just because there may be a need, that doesn’t necessary mean a fit is created from just the desire to fill it.
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Post by telson13 on May 15, 2019 21:12:23 GMT -5
Except that Chavis has shown to be a solid second baseman and seems comfortable at the position. He’s hitting now in his first mlb experience. Why mess with the kid and make him go to the outfield? Because that's where the team needs are The team *NEED* is at 2b, not the OF. There is absolutely o *need* in the OF. Even if you want to sit JBJ indefinitely (and you are apparently wedded to that idea the way people are wedded to the idea of the sun rising in the east), there’s no *need*, because JDM can olay RF and Mookie CF, and JBJ becomes your backup 4th OF. Zero. *need*.
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Post by telson13 on May 15, 2019 21:19:04 GMT -5
During the prospect rating season, other sites offered 3 or 4 different names on who the number one prospect was in the Sox system. Right now, it looks like those who stuck with Mr. Chavis after a tough year were right (including this site). I'm glad DDo stuck to the belief that last years bullpen was good enough (when so many commentators said otherwise) and didn't move other prospects for that area. Who wanted to make trades for bullpen help? Almost everyone wanted free agents, which only cost money. Nevermind considering guys like Brewer and Thornburg I wouldn't say those people were wrong either. Btw, even though I like the gestalt bullpen approach, I still agree with you that they f’d up by not picking up a couple of usable FA arms. There were a bunch of $1-2M signs that could’ve helped with depth. Depth is my only *real* concern for the bullpen, because an injury to the top 4-5 creates a significant problem. And if Barnes or Walden (or probably Workman right now) is out for any extended time, they’re gonna struggle. I’d feel better if they had one or two more guys I could sorta count on, like Hembree. Pretty ok, sometimes really good, occasionally bad, but overall not a dumpster fire risk.
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Post by dmaineah on May 15, 2019 22:25:11 GMT -5
Why should I when this is the obvious decision that needs to be made. Chavis to LF, Mookie to CF, Benintendi to RF & Nunez at 2B. All the moves make the team better overall. The defense doesn't suffer like most fear & the offense is better. Those who believe otherwise are wrong. It’s not obvious though, and here’s why: 1) They want JDM to stay. That means giving him OF time, in a corner. Benintendi should be getting 150 starts a year, so LF is largely out. And Mookie should get 150 starts a year, possibly some CF, but mostly RF. So COF PT is limited. Chavis has the speed for a corner but not CF. 2) JBJ starts slow essentially every year. But he’s also proven to be a 2-4 WAR player...slightly above-average. He’s streaky, yes. But odds are he ends up providing solid value, producing 1 WAR for every $3-5M, well blow FA market. 3) Jarren Duran is looking like a starting OF. Specifically, a starting CF. Moving Chavis to OF requires he play RF (Beni doesn’t have the arm), and moving Mookie to CF. Now you’ve blocked arguably your best prospect (once Chavis’s eligibility is up, which essentially it is). Moving Duran off CF significantly reduces his value. Moving him back to 2b wastes his speed, and puts him at a fast-burnout position. 4) Not one of Pedroia, Lin, Holt, Nunez, or Marco Hernandez is a good bet for average value at 2b (2 WAR). Nunez is terrible defensively and essentially below-replacement. Pedroia is hurt, and may never be back. Lin is *probably* the best bet there, but there are questions re: his offense. He also has significant value as a backup at SS and 3b, where he’s above-average defensively. Holt has *never* played a full season healthy and his best role is as a utility player. Hernandez is a black box coming back from major injury. Chavis has shown average defensive ability at 2b and WELL above-average offense, meaning he’s likely to provide 3-4 WAR at that position. 5) sitting JBJ by playing Chavis obliterates any trade value he has, with 1.5 years left of control. Also, Chavis has less value as a COF where his offense is less stellar relative to league average. And his fielding skills are unknown. Now, I’m all for iving Chavis *reps* in the OF to increase his positional versatility. That’s a great idea, especially if it allows them to break Pedey back in slowly and see what he has, while still keeping Chavis’s bat in the lineup. But a 130-140 wRC+ hitter who can play average 2b is WAY more valuable (and difficult to replace) than is a COF with the same offensive production. Moving Chavis *permanently* to the OF *right now* is just an awful idea, on so many levels. Maybe in a year and a half, when Duran is breaking in, JDM has just 2 years left, and JBJ is a FA, and Mookie is testing the waters, it would make sense. But at the moment, when they have no long-term 2b solution and a TON of questions? No. Just flat-out, no. 1) JD should be moved to 1B when he plays the field. Pairing him up with Moreland at 1B/DH is a perfect fit 2) Benintendi defense & arm is plenty strong enough for RF 3) Duran is to far away for him to be considered about who plays where in Boston 4) These are all professional athletes & can make the moves 5) The best team moving forward is Chavis in LF, Mookie in CF, Benintendi in RF, Martinez at 1B & at 2B in order; Pedroia, Holt, Chatham
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Post by dmaineah on May 15, 2019 22:36:03 GMT -5
Dimaneah: Besides the fact you may not want to mess with a kid who is becoming comfortable in a position he is regularly playing for the first time and appears to have adequate ability to play and who is doing well, wouldn’t you first want to know if he can play the outfield? Second base does require many fielding skills he already possesses. That is, the angle of the throw is similar third to second as it is second to first base; Both positions require similar skills at charging the ball and to go back on pop-ups; both positions require a quick transfer and throw. The double play turn is dissimilar to third, but at least Chavis has played shortstop in the past and the adjustment on the turn is not something someone with his athleticism should have great difficulty. I would think Chavis would need some regular reps in the minors to become an outfielder. Just because there may be a need, that doesn’t necessary mean a fit is created from just the desire to fill it. Chavis is a professional baseball player, he can move to the outfield with little time. This is not new. It has always been this way. If he wants to be in the big leagues he will learn & adapt to the outfield quickly because that's where the playing time is available. This is not a new concept, a rookie learning a new position at the MLB level. He's ready. JBJ needs to take a seat.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 15, 2019 22:46:09 GMT -5
Dimaneah: Besides the fact you may not want to mess with a kid who is becoming comfortable in a position he is regularly playing for the first time and appears to have adequate ability to play and who is doing well, wouldn’t you first want to know if he can play the outfield? Second base does require many fielding skills he already possesses. That is, the angle of the throw is similar third to second as it is second to first base; Both positions require similar skills at charging the ball and to go back on pop-ups; both positions require a quick transfer and throw. The double play turn is dissimilar to third, but at least Chavis has played shortstop in the past and the adjustment on the turn is not something someone with his athleticism should have great difficulty. I would think Chavis would need some regular reps in the minors to become an outfielder. Just because there may be a need, that doesn’t necessary mean a fit is created from just the desire to fill it. Chavis is a professional baseball player, he can move to the outfield with little time. This is not new. It has always been this way. If he wants to be in the big leagues he will learn & adapt to the outfield quickly because that's where the playing time is available. This is not a new concept, a rookie learning a new position at the MLB level. He's ready. JBJ needs to take a seat. This isn't rotisserie baseball. Defense matters in the majors and moving guys all over the place is a stupid way to run the club. All of this is because of your idiotic obsession with JBJ. One of the biggest strengths of the ballclub is their outfield defense, which saves the pitchers a ton of runs, but for some reason you choose to be quite obtuse about this. Everybody on this site can see this - the one thing that we actually all agree on - except for you. You choose to be obtuse despite all the statistical evidence that refutes your view. And you start in with this - hey, he's an athlete nonsense. Major league baseball is a little more complicated than just throwing players all over the field like chess pieces. Turning batted balls into outs is a huge factor in winning games. F'ng up your defense is a way for you NOT to win ballgames.
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Post by grandsalami on May 15, 2019 23:33:45 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on May 16, 2019 0:14:17 GMT -5
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Post by hammerhead on May 16, 2019 0:35:44 GMT -5
So your idea is to bench the best defensive CF in baseball, play Mookie out of position, play Benni one of slowest players on the team in one of the biggest RF in MLB and move a kid who has never played the outfield, never played the wall and who is doing everything you've asked and more at 2nd base... You say this would have no impact on the outfield defense? ? You've just weakened every outfield position. You've decreased Chavis's value and made JBJ untradeable, and probably pissed off a guy who has a track record of being hugely valuable in the second half... This might be the stupidest idea I've seen posted on this site
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 16, 2019 4:08:37 GMT -5
Do we really need to be discussing this in multiple threads ?
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Post by James Dunne on May 16, 2019 7:58:30 GMT -5
Do we really need to be discussing this in multiple threads ? Right? Literally three threads at once.
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Post by iakovos11 on May 16, 2019 8:31:33 GMT -5
Do we really need to be discussing this in multiple threads ? Fixed this for you
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Post by soxin8 on May 16, 2019 11:16:21 GMT -5
During the prospect rating season, other sites offered 3 or 4 different names on who the number one prospect was in the Sox system. Right now, it looks like those who stuck with Mr. Chavis after a tough year were right (including this site). I'm glad DDo stuck to the belief that last years bullpen was good enough (when so many commentators said otherwise) and didn't move other prospects for that area. Who wanted to make trades for bullpen help? Almost everyone wanted free agents, which only cost money. Nevermind considering guys like Brewer and Thornburg I wouldn't say those people were wrong either. I wasn't advocating that the Sox needed to make a trade for a reliever this off season. I was saying that last year at the trade deadline many baseball commentators were saying the Sox needed another bullpen arm. Kelly was in a rough stretch at the time and there was some question about the depth but I think the majority of the people here were willing to go with what was on board and not make the moves the talk show people were suggesting. I was specifically thinking of when the Marlins said Chavis alone wouldn't be enough to get one of their relievers, which in retrospect seems silly.
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Post by terriblehondo on May 16, 2019 11:35:26 GMT -5
I have to say his defense has been far better than I thought it would be from his scouting reports. He has been solid at 2nd and 1st.
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Post by maxwellsdemon on May 16, 2019 11:46:12 GMT -5
He started life as a shortstop. He doesn't have the chops to be that in MLB, but it does indicate that he's no stonehands.
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Post by soxin8 on May 16, 2019 16:53:52 GMT -5
Chavis latest tweet, "Dear diary, I really like it here." - Chief Chavis
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Post by bluechip on May 16, 2019 21:55:12 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 17, 2019 6:03:49 GMT -5
Kieth Law isn't buying it: (Altho "At a level like this" is a pretty milk toast statement"
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