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Post by grandsalami on Jul 13, 2017 10:31:48 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 13, 2017 10:31:53 GMT -5
WOW
#WhiteSox have acquired OF Eloy Jiménez, RHP Dylan Cease, 1B Matt Rose & INF Bryant Flete from the Cubs in exchange for LHP José Quintana.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 13, 2017 10:31:59 GMT -5
🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 13, 2017 10:36:34 GMT -5
The White Sox are not doing this whole rebuild thing half-heartedly. Is Lucas Giolito even in their Top 10? My god.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 13, 2017 10:38:21 GMT -5
The White Sox are not doing this whole rebuild thing half-heartedly. Is Lucas Giolito even in their Top 10? My god. And that GM will be a god there in five years if he isn't fired before he gets the chance to show and prove.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 13, 2017 10:38:31 GMT -5
The White Sox are not doing this whole rebuild thing half-heartedly. Is Lucas Giolito even in their Top 10? My god. I hope they're successful so the Red Sox follow that plan when it's time. Half hearted rebuilds are a good way to never rebuild.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 13, 2017 10:40:26 GMT -5
Cease is no slouch either. This is a great haul for Quintana IMO.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 13, 2017 10:42:16 GMT -5
The White Sox are not doing this whole rebuild thing half-heartedly. Is Lucas Giolito even in their Top 10? My god. I hope they're successful so the Red Sox follow that plan when it's time. Half hearted rebuilds are a good way to never rebuild. From 2003 to 2009 the Red Sox won two World Series, went to the ALCS four times, and missed the playoffs only once. Piecemeal rebuilds are sometimes the way to rebuild.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 13, 2017 10:47:04 GMT -5
I hope they're successful so the Red Sox follow that plan when it's time. Half hearted rebuilds are a good way to never rebuild. From 2003 to 2009 the Red Sox won two World Series, went to the ALCS four times, and missed the playoffs only once. Piecemeal rebuilds are sometimes the way to rebuild. It helps when your not top-50 prospects turn out to be ROY and then MVP, though. We hit on our prospects a ton in that stretch. It was awesome.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 13, 2017 10:52:00 GMT -5
Yep. It has to be in the right situation for sure. A situation like, say, a quartet of Under-25 players as good as Betts, Bogaerts, Benintendi, and Devers. Like, it's easy to say that the Mariners should have sold on Felix Hernandez when he was at his peak a few years back. But that wouldn't have helped the Mariners inability to identify and develop talent. Anyway, this was the White Sox top 10 in November: www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2017-chicago-white-sox-top-10-prospects/#OYds2OT3kUjJ09ZK.97
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 13, 2017 10:56:54 GMT -5
I hope they're successful so the Red Sox follow that plan when it's time. Half hearted rebuilds are a good way to never rebuild. From 2003 to 2009 the Red Sox won two World Series, went to the ALCS four times, and missed the playoffs only once. Piecemeal rebuilds are sometimes the way to rebuild. That was back when players over 30 were still good. It's a new age in baseball. 17 of the top 20 players in fWAR are under 30 this year. 6 of the top 11 are under 25. Those are not including Trout. In 2020-2022 or so, when the prospect pool is probably pretty barren for the Sox, they'll be able to choose having an over 30 team with declining stars or rebuild completely really quickly.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 13, 2017 10:59:56 GMT -5
Good news for Seattle is that Dipoto seems to have a good eye for talent and isn't gun shy with trades. He believed in Segura, who by all accounts looks like a stud now. They're on the right track IMO.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 13, 2017 11:00:45 GMT -5
From 2003 to 2009 the Red Sox won two World Series, went to the ALCS four times, and missed the playoffs only once. Piecemeal rebuilds are sometimes the way to rebuild. That was back when players over 30 were still good. It's a new age in baseball. 17 of the top 20 players in fWAR are under 30 this year. 6 of the top 11 are under 25. Those are not including Trout. It seems much more likely to me to be a weird statistical anomaly rather than a new trend in player aging patterns. ------ Anyhow, since the start of June here is Jose Quintana's line. He's basically back to being Jose Quintana. www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=quintjo01&t=p&year=2017#166-172-sum:pitching_gamelogs
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 13, 2017 11:15:59 GMT -5
In 2020-2022 or so, when the prospect pool is probably pretty barren for the Sox, they'll be able to choose having an over 30 team with declining stars or rebuild completely really quickly. Why is the pool going to be pretty barren? Or is the assumption that Dombrowski is going to trade literally everyone away for injured relief pitchers? We have no idea what they'll acquire in terms of minor league talent in the next few seasons. There's no reason to assume that the cupboard is going to go completely bare.
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Post by juanpena on Jul 13, 2017 11:56:46 GMT -5
Yeah, the "Dombrowski trades everybody" scenario neglects that he DIDN'T trade Benintendi and refused to trade Devers.
He said he told his people to restock the system this year, and it looks like they've done a good job, with Flores, Diaz, Scherff, Brannen and Houck.
Of course, signing Otani would be a nice way to make sure most of those guys hang around. :-)
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 13, 2017 11:56:55 GMT -5
In 2020-2022 or so, when the prospect pool is probably pretty barren for the Sox, they'll be able to choose having an over 30 team with declining stars or rebuild completely really quickly. Why is the pool going to be pretty barren? Or is the assumption that Dombrowski is going to trade literally everyone away for injured relief pitchers? We have no idea what they'll acquire in terms of minor league talent in the next few seasons. There's no reason to assume that the cupboard is going to go completely bare. After Devers makes it and possibly Chavis, it looks like it will be a few years before there are any impact players because of all the recent prospects traded. And that's where they usually start making mistakes in free agency and trades to fill in holes. For instance, if they didn't have JBJ, they probably would have been a lot more interested in re-signing Ellsbury. If they don't have someone to replace JBJ, they'll be a lot more likely to sign him to a stupid contract.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Jul 13, 2017 12:12:04 GMT -5
A lot of teams may be looking at the Astros/Cubs recent success as the new template.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 13, 2017 12:22:24 GMT -5
A lot of teams may be looking at the Astros/Cubs recent success as the new template. The Cards have been doing it forever, too. It takes great front offices too though. The Padres have been failing miserably for a long time trying to rebuild.
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Post by gk2186 on Jul 13, 2017 12:35:00 GMT -5
Ken RosenthalVerified account @ken_Rosenthal 16m16 minutes ago
Sources: #Yankees and #Brewers have made a trade. LHP Tyler Webb heading to MIL. Wonder who is heading to the Bronx??
Edit: Heyman said its milb player Garrett Cooper
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Post by sox fan in nc on Jul 13, 2017 12:36:01 GMT -5
True. St Louis has been blessed with a weak division for years (until now). Teams like the CWS, Houston, like you said, San Diego, Minnesota, can "throw away" a few years to get there, or at least try to get there. I remember when Theo just mentioned the words "bridge year", he almost got strung up.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 13, 2017 12:40:05 GMT -5
True. St Louis has been blessed with a weak division for years (until now). Teams like the CWS, Houston, like you said, San Diego, Minnesota, can "throw away" a few years to get there, or at least try to get there. I remember when Theo just mentioned the words "bridge year", he almost got strung up. The Yankees did it the last few years.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 13, 2017 12:41:43 GMT -5
Lol ah yes, the dreaded "bridge year", which a lot of people were labeling 2013 in the preseason when we signed bridge players like Napoli and Victorino, who of course combined for almost 10 WAR in their first year.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 13, 2017 12:42:40 GMT -5
Ken RosenthalVerified account @ken_Rosenthal 16m16 minutes ago Sources: #Yankees and #Brewers have made a trade. LHP Tyler Webb heading to MIL. Wonder who is heading to the Bronx?? Edit: Heyman said its milb player Garrett Cooper Strange trade for the Brewers to make. Cooper looks like he just figured out how to hit at age 26 with a .287 ISO at AAA.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 13, 2017 12:43:46 GMT -5
Lol ah yes, the dreaded "bridge year", which a lot of people were labeling 2013 in the preseason when we signed bridge players like Napoli and Victorino, who of course combined for almost 10 WAR in their first year. A lot of people have derisively labeled every single season a "bridge year" since the 2010 team (which won 89 games and would've won the wild card under the current rules!). It's the annoying one-off quote that will not effing die. True. St Louis has been blessed with a weak division for years (until now). Teams like the CWS, Houston, like you said, San Diego, Minnesota, can "throw away" a few years to get there, or at least try to get there. I remember when Theo just mentioned the words "bridge year", he almost got strung up. The Yankees did it the last few years. The Yankees are actually a good example of a team that both has consistently contended but also timed a rebuild right to supplement their system. The Yankees 2016 was like the Red Sox 2014, except the Yankees sold their valuable assets for real and didn't demand major league players in return in a lame attempt to save the GM's job. The franchise would've been better off if they'd sold Uehara and Tazawa at the 2014 midseason. And, uhhh, I think I've made my feelings on the Lackey trade known.
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Post by ryan24 on Jul 13, 2017 12:48:22 GMT -5
See Dave is not the only one that makes BIG trades using his farm system. Theo traded his star SS last year to get chapman for a short rental that helped win the series. Now he trades his best young OF, a top 10 prospect for a starting pitcher to get back into this years playoffs. I am sure theo has a whole pile load of loyal cub fans that are mad they gave away the second coming of ernie to get a 2nd level starter. At least that's what they are probably thinking.
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