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8/3-8/6 Red Sox vs. White Sox Series Thread
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 7, 2017 19:17:02 GMT -5
I get that you have an irrational hatred for Wade Boggs. Wade Boggs the ballplayer was a fantastic player. The Red Sox did NOT have a good offense prior to Boggs. They had Evans and Rice. That's it. They had an aging Carl Yastrzemski, Tony Perez, and Joe Rudi and some mediocre offense in the infield between Stapleton, Remy, and Hoffman. Lansford was a good ballplayer but his OPS wasn't the greatest in the world despite his strong BAs. They had Rick Miller and Reid Nicols sharing CF after Lynn was dealt. Their catching tandem was a raw Rich Gedman and two other guys who couldn't hit in Gary Allenson and eventually Jeff Newman. Their offense wasn't that great prior to Boggs' arrival.Boggs replaced Carney Lansford, who was, IMHO a better baseball player. He won a batting title in Fenway and was an infiinitely better baserunner and defender. Stupid trades like the Anderson/Schilling for Boddicker followed the Hurst defection. [/b] Hurst left in the late 80's Wade Boggs, the human being, not so great back then. Not arguing that, but when you're telling me that Boggs was the sole reason for Hurst's departure you're offbase. Yes, that is exactly what I am telling you. And no, I am not off base. Oh, he was a part of it, wouldn't argue that he wasn't, but there was more. Let me spell this out for you. Bruce Hurst literally told a bunch of us at a baseball event that he wishes he hadn't left the Red Sox. Reading between the lines, the drinking was a big part of it, and it wasn't just Boggs who acted like a drunken fool. The Red Sox had a bunch of guys who had their issues. Obviously it clashed with the way he was/is. I'm sure he discovered this in San Diego, too. Over imbibing is common to baseball. It is pervasive in the minor leagues as well. Mr. Hurst was exposed to this long before he joined the Red Sox.Drinking was a issue that he had already learned to deal with. But those issues were hardly contained to just the Red Sox and Wage Boggs. For whatever reason you have a hatred of Boggs. That's fine. Your choice, but it was more than "I hate Wade Boggs because of Margot Adams. I'm going to San Diego".My distaste for Wade Boggs covers both his self serving style, his overall baseball skills, and his personality. Bruce Hurst was a Mormon (and like Dwight Evans a devote Christian). Mr. Hurst could "live with" excess drinking. Not much mention of that in the Bible. Marital infidelity, and in particular flaunting Ms. Adams on cross country team flights did not sit well with the more traditionally religious. Mr. Boggs was not a team favorite in any clubhouse he suited up in. Boggs was hardly the first person in baseball to cheat on his spouse. Doubt because he had a mistress that Hurst would lose his mind over it. I'm sure a lot of the rest of the team had their extra marital activities, too. Boggs and his wife are still married after all these years, so you have to give these two credit for finding ways to make it work. Marriage is not an easy thing.Puleez. Money and power keep many marriages together in name only. Since I don't know the particulars of the Boggs marriage, I am not about to "give credit" to them for finding ways to make it work. Yes, marriage is not an easy thing, but because it remains intact does not mean it "works". It is naive to think otherwise. And yes, some stupid trades (and FA signings) did wind up following as Gorman got desperate to win a World Series while Mrs. Yawkey was still alive.[/quote][/quote] NESN has a treat for you. Guess who will be in the broadcast booth during the Red Sox/TB series alongside Dave O'Brien. Your buddy Wade Boggs. I'm not even kidding.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,941
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 7, 2017 22:08:12 GMT -5
Please permit me to make one final post about the '86 Sox please given the circumstances of Don Baylor's sad passing. He was with the Sox a short time but it was an impactful one. I remember his clutch hits, like his bases clearing double against the Yankees to finish off a sweep, and I'll certainly remember that 9th inning HR in Game 5 of the ALCS off of Mike Witt to make Henderson's HR possible. Hard to believe that both guys who hit homers in that magical top of the 9th inning are now gone. And I'll always remember his propensity to get hit by pitches. I swear when the ball would hit Baylor, the ball would scream out in agony. He was totally solid muscle. I was always glad that he got a chance to win his deserved World Series ring, even if he earned it as a Minnesota Twin the next season when he hit a key HR in the 6th game of the WS. RIP Don Baylor. Baylor was the regular DH in 1986, and started 13 G at 1B when Buckner was hurt (including, of course, Clemens' 20 K game). Eyeballs said he wasn't significantly worse than Buckner defensively, and Total Zone has Buckner at -3 R / 1200 innings and Baylor at -5. However, Buckner's numbers were probably very inflated because the vast majority of his 3-1 assists were balls that every other 1B would have taken to the bag himself, and TZ uses the number of those plays as a key part of its estimation. By the end of the year, Baylor may well have been the better defender. Buckner hit .218 / .287 / .322 vs LHP that year, and was even worse in the post-season. Baylor had a SSS off year against them, but was still much better, and projected even better than that. Bob Ojeda held LHB to .150 / .207 / .206 that year. So why was Baylor on the bench and Buckner not only starting but hitting 3rd in Game 6? If the AL hadn't had a DH, Buckner and Baylor would have obviously platooned at first. There is zero doubt in my mind that we win Game 6 if John McNamara does the screamingly obvious thing and prepares to platoon the two at 1B in NYC if they get to the WS, and then does so. Look at the game log for that game if you think that's an overstatement; Ojeda got destroyed by the RHB and only skated along because he had automatic outs conveniently located by McNamara at 3, 6 (Gedman, whom anyone else would have had 8th), and 9. Yeah, we didn't have those splits handy then (although they did appear in the Elias Baseball Analyst that winter). But is it conceivable that Mac didn't have a scouting report on Ojeda that said "this guy is insanely tough on lefty hitters?" RIP the guy who should have helped bring us a ring while my Dad was alive, and who was denied a chance by the guy we both agreed was stupider than any manager we had ever seen or, in fact, could conceive of. (Me: "No manager in the history of baseball would be stupid enough not to pinch hit Baylor for Buckner now [8th inning with Jesse Orosco coming in]." Dad, roughly: "Well, he's the stupidest I've ever seen, but, no, you're right, that would be beyond belief."
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 8, 2017 13:01:51 GMT -5
Please permit me to make one final post about the '86 Sox please given the circumstances of Don Baylor's sad passing. He was with the Sox a short time but it was an impactful one. I remember his clutch hits, like his bases clearing double against the Yankees to finish off a sweep, and I'll certainly remember that 9th inning HR in Game 5 of the ALCS off of Mike Witt to make Henderson's HR possible. Hard to believe that both guys who hit homers in that magical top of the 9th inning are now gone. And I'll always remember his propensity to get hit by pitches. I swear when the ball would hit Baylor, the ball would scream out in agony. He was totally solid muscle. I was always glad that he got a chance to win his deserved World Series ring, even if he earned it as a Minnesota Twin the next season when he hit a key HR in the 6th game of the WS. RIP Don Baylor. Baylor was the regular DH in 1986, and started 13 G at 1B when Buckner was hurt (including, of course, Clemens' 20 K game). Eyeballs said he wasn't significantly worse than Buckner defensively, and Total Zone has Buckner at -3 R / 1200 innings and Baylor at -5. However, Buckner's numbers were probably very inflated because the vast majority of his 3-1 assists were balls that every other 1B would have taken to the bag himself, and TZ uses the number of those plays as a key part of its estimation. By the end of the year, Baylor may well have been the better defender. Buckner hit .218 / .287 / .322 vs LHP that year, and was even worse in the post-season. Baylor had a SSS off year against them, but was still much better, and projected even better than that. Bob Ojeda held LHB to .150 / .207 / .206 that year. So why was Baylor on the bench and Buckner not only starting but hitting 3rd in Game 6? If the AL hadn't had a DH, Buckner and Baylor would have obviously platooned at first. There is zero doubt in my mind that we win Game 6 if John McNamara does the screamingly obvious thing and prepares to platoon the two at 1B in NYC if they get to the WS, and then does so. Look at the game log for that game if you think that's an overstatement; Ojeda got destroyed by the RHB and only skated along because he had automatic outs conveniently located by McNamara at 3, 6 (Gedman, whom anyone else would have had 8th), and 9. Yeah, we didn't have those splits handy then (although they did appear in the Elias Baseball Analyst that winter). But is it conceivable that Mac didn't have a scouting report on Ojeda that said "this guy is insanely tough on lefty hitters?" RIP the guy who should have helped bring us a ring while my Dad was alive, and who was denied a chance by the guy we both agreed was stupider than any manager we had ever seen or, in fact, could conceive of. (Me: "No manager in the history of baseball would be stupid enough not to pinch hit Baylor for Buckner now [8th inning with Jesse Orosco coming in]." Dad, roughly: "Well, he's the stupidest I've ever seen, but, no, you're right, that would be beyond belief." Agree wholeheartedly with the bolded. McNamara was the master of doing nothing. I remember being really ticked when he didn't bat Baylor for Buckner and then go defense with Stapleton. McNamara was a total blockhead, the guy who was too lazy to adjust the lineup in 1987 because Boggs didn't play so he'd insert Ed Romero in Boggs' #3 spot in the lineup, or the guy who refused to replace Spike Owen at SS with Jody Reed, a real and and comer at the time. I also wished at some point in Game 7, that he had found a way to reign in a disappointed Boyd (the only move I did agree with him was pitching Hurst for Boyd) and have him ready for the 7th inning with Clemens set up for the 8th and/or 9th. Boyd could have been a difference maker, considering that the bullpen was an absolute horror show and that the Sox did score twice in the 8th - could have won 5-3 with some better managing, which of course wouldn't have been necessary if he hadn't blown Game 6! Amazingly he's not the worst mgr they've had since I've been watching - which dates back to Zimmer. I'd say the worst was Bobby Valentine, with all the chaos he caused - and wouldn't you know the Sox had a perfectly good closer in Melancon that year if Bobby V hadn't crapped on him when he started the year poorly? Butch Hobson was just a guy totally overmatched. He was horrendous. McNamara literally cost the Sox a World Championship. Had Joe Kerrigan managed long enough, he might have topped the list. Makes me appreciate John Farrell all the more, although he can drive me crazy at times, too. I really miss Tito, now.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 8, 2017 15:12:25 GMT -5
Just consider for a minute that Carlton Fisk played 157 games in 1978. And then 1979 was one of the worst seasons of his career, probably not a coincidence. I hated Don Zimmer.
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